Cause of Neonatal Deaths in Uintah County, Utah?

a reply to: CeeRZ

I wasn't taught that "can't" was an option. The wall of success is only as tall as the wall of fear. One cannot fear and then pretend to succeed.

The bias argument makes some sense I suppose. One can volley varying philosophies on that subject. Its in my opinion that anything can be interpreted to contain bias. Is there any such thing as accidental research? Accidental findings yes, but accidental research? Probably less likely. Labeling it "research" would arguably introduce the element of bias within itself. This is where the benefit of group applies. It will require many perspectives and the asking of many questions.

I should have prefaced this thread with the fact that I do not oppose what a community does for their economic engine. If a person doesn't like it, then don’t move there. The purpose of this thread was not to hate on the gas and oil industry, nor was it to give the community an irreparable reputation. This isn't about putting all elements of the community (or State) on the defense.

I care for the families, and the babies that are born. They're people, not statistics. This problem shouldn't be ignored to appease commerce or government. To ensure a stronger community, all elements must have a healthy balance with one another. The city workers and industry workers have families too. Before the community can truly pull together, its going to have to ask some truly difficult questions. Do nothing, and the community will divide itself beyond diplomacy's abilities to repair it. Without the families, there are no economic engines. Any one of these elements in crippled form will topple the necessary balance. Its a matter of time.

I had hoped that this thread would have raised awareness, so that people could begin asking the right questions. There is much brilliance here at ATS. It seemed in theory to be a great place to discuss this issue. As it would seem (from low and slow thread participation)... very few even care. I appreciate your participation. You have raised many interesting points. I value what I have learned from you. Thank you. I look forward to any and all future contributions.

a reply to: Bloomoon

You would think it would be a very important subject. But strangely some people just don't care. Maybe it's just missing the meat that attracts the flies? It caught my attention because I live in Utah, but I may have not even noticed the thread otherwise. Maybe if it were titled more ominous.

"Neonatal deaths are 6x National Average in small Utah County"

Something to grab the readers attention

From a cross thread here on ATS: www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: Bloomoon
a reply to: hiii_98

There was a recent $5.5 million dollar multiprong environmental study done in an area close to the ranch. Do you believe the high rate of ozone in the area has something to do with the Skinwalker ranch? Also, there are a lot of gas and oil wells nearby (I believe about 8,000+) ... is there any relevance of the industry to the Skinwalker ranch? As recently as last week, awareness has been raised about a spike in neonatal deaths in Vernal. The spike is approximately 6x the national average in 2013. Do you believe there might be a connection to the Skinwalker ranch?

Thank you for your time.

(reply by hiii_98 )
personally YES I 100% believe there is a connection. The ozone above Skinwalker ranch (and in vernal and Randlette, Roosevelt) is HIGHER than a MAJOR city!!! Also the suicide rate and rate of cancer/mental illness is shocking high, especially directly around the ranch. The surrounding cities have abnormally high rates as well. This was NOT discussed in this book and I believe should be a topic if I write a third one. You are well in tuned to point this out! This is a alarming fact that does not fit the dynamics of the local environment (its a unpopulated dustbowl out there)

www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Bloomoon

Nice, I saw that thread, but haven't got around to really checking it out.
Very well could be a connection. Though with the death increase being more current, it doesn't really fit a timeline - unless something is ramping up in the area. Which is slightly frightening.

When looking at the ozone, it begs to pay attention to the landscape out there, and look at how the area was developed geographically. The red rock, etc. Dinosaur park is close by. An area that has discovered many species of dinosaurs, and is teeming with fossils (and oil). As I mentioned previously, they are not exactly large areas...and far removed from high populations. So, if it isn't exhaust causing the atmospheric pollution, or the ozone change - what is. Which is why I'm mentioning the actual geography of the land itself.


Side-note: I have family that lives in Roosevelt, and spent a lot of time up there when I was younger. Particularly off-roading through the red-rock. My ancestors even helped build Vernal, so my mom has a lot of historical research on our family out there.
Had I known when I was younger how close the SkinWalker ranch was, I definitely would have visited. My father-in-law has land about 30 miles outside of there also. Next time I get the chance to get up there, I'm going to do a little "foot on ground" work.
It's funny though - now that I'm actually thinking about it.... I distinctly remember every time I was out there how different it felt. I never liked being alone, and never felt safe. The animals out there were mentally off, the people were intense, despite living in a sleepy town. It always felt wrong. I had more health issues when I stayed with my family there, and major sleep problems. In fact, I have purposefully avoided going back as an adult. The last time I visited my family there is when I had no choice because I was too young to tell my parents I was staying home. As soon as I was "adult" enough.... I avoided going back.
Even when I went with my husband to his dad's property near there.... I barely slept. Until now, I have NEVER actually thought about it. The entire area always gave me the heebeejeebez. hahaha Anyway - yeah, that was a sidetrack and interesting trip down memory road.

Back to the points. I was doing a little more ozone research of Uintah county, specifically Vernal. Using the airmonitoring.utah.gov site.

This is pretty significant it seems. The first two photos are of 2012 ozone (comparing Uintah to SLC since Salt Lake City is high metro area with a larger population and higher human pollution) The next set of photos are the same areas for 2013 (minus one area each, because they weren't listed). Uintah is significantly higher, where SLC is almost identical.







(I'm at work, and have to end there, but still looking around and trying to make sense of the numbers I'm seeing)

a reply to: CeeRZ

This is probably a huge stretch, a theory (conspiracy theorist in me), but I'm going to toss the thought out there... no stone left unturned right? ...but first... the back story leading up to this thought I had.

1) About twenty years ago I had one of those air purifiers that had the metal plates in them. Basically it was an ionizer. It might have even been called that. It was the trendy back then, and the advertisement stated that dust particulates would be attracted to the charged plates, allowing the air to pass through. The advertisement also stated that the metal plates were easy to wipe down and clean. Over a period of time, it became obvious that it generated excessive amounts of ozone as it passed electrical current through air spacing between the plates. I literally remember the house had a very strong distinct odor of ozone within it... which isn't good for you BTW. I tossed the ionizer. Now hold that thought...

2) Super fast-forward to another memory I had... I was last in Roosevelt back in February or March of 2008 on unrelated business to any of this topic matter. I would deem the experience interesting, but also uneventful in comparison by today's standards. I seem to recall heavy power lines that ran east and west on the south side of town. I also remember the crackling of the electrical lines on the cold mornings. The powerlines were maybe 100 yards away. I didn't think anything of it, and one of the residents said that it was a common occurrence. It wasn't common where I came from, but okay.... if you say so. That must have been a massive amount of current traveling down those lines. Now hold that thought too...

3) This is where my thought gets interesting... I come across an old ATS thread dated: June 26th, 2008...
Man Made Stargate being built in Duchesne Utah?

Skinwalker Ranch is between Roosevelt & Fort Duschene according to Google Maps. That certainly would have made sense that the massive powerlines went in that direction.

Now its a bit of a stretch (again the conspiracy theorist in me), but if certain groups started black projects right around this time, and then around 2012-2013, "ramped up" (your words) operations... Could this be a "super-ionizer" (a.k.a. stargate) interfaced with a natural 11th dimension portal conjured up by an ancient shaman (skinwalker ranch)? Could super crazy amounts of ozone be created as a result of secret experiments? Would Vernal have been downwind from the project location? Also, Vernal sits in a topographical pocket-like hole.... Could this ozone pool up and sit in this basin causing all these problems?

Another super freaky thing that I noticed was the reference to "Water Babies" at: www.skinwalkerranch.org... What's our thread about here? Unusual number of Neonatal Deaths. Connection?

I wonder if its possible to track down when these babies died in Uintah County and cross reference it with a daily ozone counts where they died at? If there is a correlating pattern... ...well, I don't want to think about _if_ there is a correlating pattern, but that would be super freaky if they lined up wouldn't it?

How far down the rabbit hole do we really want to go?

Here's a more recent article where a journalist seems to share some concerns of others toward the possibility of the story getting lost in the wash of things.

www.desmogblog.com...

There also appears to be a leaning toward the oil & gas industry by more than one article out there. I have no idea what has caused this suggested spike of neonatal deaths, but I definitely believe that the mystery widens each time I look at it.

a reply to: Bloomoon

Whoa. So - that's just freaky. haha I mean, yeah - a stretch, but often times the improbable is the actual.

Those are some pretty freaky things to attribute to each other.
I do know what you're saying about the ionizer... the smell is awful, and I stopped using it after I would get headaches from it.
As for the power lines (or the Owls, as we call them).... they have been there for as long as I can remember. It was the marker letting us know we were close. Look for the owls.
And with that said - looking to the power lines themselves.... I just did a general search, and found this:
Science Daily

It is the first experiment to conclusively link an electromagnetic field with a health-adverse chemical effect in the presence of an animal, said Steven Goheen, a scientist at the Department of Energy lab and lead author of a paper published in the current issue of the journal Bioelectromagnetics.
"All this time, we were looking in the wrong place," Goheen said. "We had been looking inside animals for an effect from the electromagnetic fields. Now it appears that the danger is in the air surrounding animals that are near a large electromagnetic field."

Could this be the kicker? Could it be causing the same issue in humans? Well, it sortof answers it -

But he notes that if ozone is produced, it is possible that other so-called reactive species may be produced near human beings in the presence of high voltage and that "these results raise new questions about the relationships between electric fields and adverse biological effects."

Then, also found this - just thought I'd mention it:
And also:

High-voltage power lines are a source of UV light due to a build-up of ionized gas—when it suddenly dissipates, flashes of UV light are emitted. The larger the buildup and release the larger the flash. Power companies try to minimize such build-ups as they indicate a loss of power, or inefficiencies in a line—they use special goggles to find and repair large problem areas. Normally people only become aware of the flashes when they hear cracking or popping noises, particularly in winter.

And the waterbaby thing... again - just... creepy.

And last side note - I was talking to my mom over the weekend. Apparently the family land we own out in Uintah County is currently being drilled on. If they do find a connection to the drilling and deaths.... this hits a little closer to home - as we own the mineral rights.

a reply to: CeeRZ

Well, I for one have had several experiences and interactions with the area on several levels. I'm digging deep trying to connect the dots and figure out what's going on. I appreciate your feedback to these points. An extra set of eyes is always useful.

Something was said in one of the threads regarding a magnetic based metal in the ground in the area. You mentioned mineral rights. If you should happen to have a mineral composition analysis done, I'd be interested in knowing what minerals are in the ground and in what percentage. I know that is something that the family might want to keep confidential and I respect that. Perhaps its an opportunity for clues to figure out what's going on.

I'm trying to find the exact post, but it almost seemed to indicate there was a magnetic vein that went from Ouray to Springfield (wherever that is). If this buzzing powerline crosses the path of these magnetic fields, I can just imagine the active science behind that combination. For example, the ozone, plasma, and possible effects on the brain's electrical chemistry (animals and humans alike). the post Could it be the combination of all of these things created the perfect storm?

There are a small hand full of elements that are magnetic in nature. They vary in magnetic strength based on exposure to temperatures. Iron, Cobalt & Nickel are the three main ones that are ferromagnetic at room temperature. Gadolinium & Dysprosium are ferromagnetic below room temperature.

One of the studies done (I believe the first news article announced in this thread) seemed to hint at greater ozone during recent winters due to the lack of snow. What if the snow acts as a blanket between the high voltage service lines and magnetic veins that become more magnetic when cooled in the ground below? When it snows, there's a natural insulator. When there's no snow then there's the amplified super ionizer. Maybe this is the reason they're having a difficult time putting their finger on the exact source of the high concentrations of ozone?

Well, like I said, I know that it might be pretty personal information, but I'd welcome the mineral analysis results even if it were by PM. We can certainly omit any personal information. I just need some clues to work with as far as the elements go.

Note by: hiii_98
www.abovetopsecret.com...

the one thing I do know is that they do seem to make mistakes. I have heard countless insider stories about them appearing at places they shouldn't . I was told it had something to do with the faulty power lines that surround the ranch causing havoc with exactly where the portals open. From personal experience they may appear god-like but I've seen them make mistakes myself.

I knew it! I was pretty sure that I had heard the power lines buzz, and crackle into fade back in 2008. It was an eerie sound.

a reply to: Bloomoon

Hmmm... not sure if I even have access to those. The land was owned by a great great grandfather, and the rights have been passed on through the generations. There are 62 total descendants still alive that are part of those rights. My parents being they are still alive, are the ones who are receiving the benefit and information. So, I'll have to ask my mom if they have a mineral report. She was aware there was gas as well as oil, before they started drilling for the gas - so I'm guessing they have a report somewhere.

As for the vein going to Springville (used to live there) - that is a good two hour drive, at least, from top to bottom ..... Not sure what it would be as the crow flies though.

I don't doubt you heard the power lines crackle... that's normal. Especially during winter. Nothing to do with faulty lines, it's part of the post I made just above. Similar to hearing the hum and crackle at a power station in your local neighborhood.

High-voltage power lines are a source of UV light due to a build-up of ionized gas—when it suddenly dissipates, flashes of UV light are emitted. The larger the buildup and release the larger the flash. Power companies try to minimize such build-ups as they indicate a loss of power, or inefficiencies in a line—they use special goggles to find and repair large problem areas. Normally people only become aware of the flashes when they hear cracking or popping noises, particularly in winter.

With that said though - doesn't mean that there AREN'T faulty power lines around the ranch.

Side-note... I decided to look at the Utah Power company website to do a little research on faulty lines if there are any out there. And the main page gives power outage reports.... the power at my house is out apparently. hahaha (I'm at work right now). Just a random tid-bit that was way too coincidental. haha

originally posted by: CeeRZ
a reply to: Bloomoon

Hmmm... not sure if I even have access to those. The land was owned by a great great grandfather, and the rights have been passed on through the generations. There are 62 total descendants still alive that are part of those rights. My parents being they are still alive, are the ones who are receiving the benefit and information. So, I'll have to ask my mom if they have a mineral report. She was aware there was gas as well as oil, before they started drilling for the gas - so I'm guessing they have a report somewhere.

That would be great. I believe the information would be useful. That's pretty special that the rights were passed down from generation to generation. The only thing I've had passed down to me from my great, great, grandfather was a picture of him in his Appalachian mountain suit with a big grin. It brings a smile each time I think about it. History is great.

As for the vein going to Springville (used to live there) - that is a good two hour drive, at least, from top to bottom ..... Not sure what it would be as the crow flies though.

It looks to be about 70 miles the way the crow flies. Thanks for the spelling correction on Springville. In looking at the map, it looks to be out of the way. Though the thread seemed to indicate that it ran through the ranch. There could be parallel veins or nearby pockets.

I don't doubt you heard the power lines crackle... that's normal. Especially during winter. Nothing to do with faulty lines, it's part of the post I made just above. Similar to hearing the hum and crackle at a power station in your local neighborhood.

I still struggle with calling it normal level of noise. This wasn't a typical humming noise, it was like the buzz-type noise you'd expect to hear from an electrical chair when the switch was thrown. It was out-of-control sounding, and I was at least 100 to 200 yards away. I know I certainly would not have walked underneath it while it was buzzing. I've been around a lot of transmission lines. I had never heard it sounding like that. I raised a brow when others dismissed it as typical. I'll go back out there the next time I'm in the area and see if its still doing it. Maybe even record it with a parabolic microphone.

High-voltage power lines are a source of UV light due to a build-up of ionized gas—when it suddenly dissipates, flashes of UV light are emitted. The larger the buildup and release the larger the flash. Power companies try to minimize such build-ups as they indicate a loss of power, or inefficiencies in a line—they use special goggles to find and repair large problem areas. Normally people only become aware of the flashes when they hear cracking or popping noises, particularly in winter.

The part... "particularly in winter" truly has my attention. The 2013 article cited high ozone in the winter months.

With that said though - doesn't mean that there AREN'T faulty power lines around the ranch.

Side-note... I decided to look at the Utah Power company website to do a little research on faulty lines if there are any out there. And the main page gives power outage reports.... the power at my house is out apparently. hahaha (I'm at work right now). Just a random tid-bit that was way too coincidental. haha

Wow, coincidental indeed that you're experiencing a power outage at home. We all need a job where we can hang out at ATS more often. I appreciate your input here. I hope you're able to come up with something on the mineral report.

So, I talked to my mom last night about the mineral rights. Apparently, our rights are a little closer to Colorado, in the Ourray area. And they don't provide a list of minerals they find, they only send statements about what they collect. And, luckily they aren't fracking in our area - but apparently trying some new way of drilling. Which has allowed them to put an extra well on our location.
Anyway - so that in itself is a dead end - HOWEVER.... we are only one of very few who were able to keep the mineral rights as a family. The government owns the rest of the rights and land. And because of that, the environmental reports are then public and can be accessed publicly. At least that's what I've been told. So... going to do some digging to see if I can find anything.

a reply to: CeeRZ

It is an important subject. I just was not sure how I could contribute until I started looking into Ozone and Radon. I could not find any studies which directly linked the two. However, I did find an interesting article about ozone levels and its effects.

Ozone is particularly likely to reach unhealthy levels on hot sunny days in urban environments. It is a major part of urban smog. Ozone can also be transported long distances by wind. For this reason, even rural areas can experience high ozone levels. And, in some cases, ozone can occur throughout the year in some southern and mountain regions.

Link


It was the phrase, "Ozone can also be transported long distances by wind" that got my attention. So, I located a map that showed current wind speeds to give me an idea of wind directions and speeds in the area in question. This is the map with the area, I believe, circled:



Map Link

What seems interesting about the wind directions is that in the same area, you have wind traveling in seemingly opposite directions. I'm not a meteorologist, but that seems to me like it would create a vortex of sorts and continue to circulate the same air in the same area. If that air has a larger concentration of ozone than normal, it would just keep circulating the same bad air around and around. But I'm no expert.

Thoughts?

a reply to: Bishop2199

Nice Bishop! Happy to have you on the research project
That wind is pretty typical of Utah. With all the mountains and valleys, it can shear wind easily, and also cause pockets that don't move and stay stagnant. In the Uintah Basin (similar to the Salt Lake Valley) creates an inversion where the warm air pushes down the cold air and traps all the particulates inside a bubble basically. (When you hear Utahns say we live in a bubble... we mean it in more than one way)
Even though the Uintah Basin doesn't have a huge population.. it doesn't mean the wind cant pull the pollution in and trap what is there and surrounding pollution.

a reply to: CeeRZ

That's great information. Thank you for trying. Also thank your mom for me for her help. I tried to dig around a bit, and found a few reports. I haven't studied them all to cross reference elements yet, but we're over one hurdle (finding reports).

www.blm.gov...

utah.ptfs.com...

geology.utah.gov...

a reply to: Bishop2199

Very nice find Bishop. Welcome to the investigation. If the ozone in Vernal is a downwinder type situation, what solution(s) do you believe could be applied here in order to proactively protect the lives of babies? Ideas? Catalyst conversion? Filtration? Wind current manipulation? Indoor filtration systems?

I think we need a chemist to gently stroll in here and chime in.

Have a few global remarks for the thread .

Honestly I feel the governments point of view is its a choice no biggie babies are a choice so if a research test or environmental issue caused a death no moral dilemma. But if causation was found it could hurt a governmental agency or a corporate friend of the government .

Kids were given radio active iodine for research . Wiki has a nice list of experiments .

en.wikipedia.org...

I looked a little gave up on finding a link at least for now on the story below.

Durango Co. 1980-1990 ish was experiencing cancer clusters the area is east of the train depot a 20 block square. There were childhood leukemia,breast cancer,prostrate cancer I forget all the types but all were above national average per area or per population by 3-8 times national average . The CDC and others did studies never found causation of the clusters . Old time Locals firmly believe they know what was going on . The area the subdivision was built on was at one time a tailings dump from a mine.

Wait for it . care to guess what type of mine it was ? ...

A Uranium mine. And no connection was made are we Americans that stupid to believe that crock of bovine bio waste .

I believe something is rotten there .

I dont really believe the air quality agencies . I have severe lung problems I am very sensitive to air born pollution . I watch my air like a hawk. Our local air quality map will say air is fine(which is green aqi of 0-50) I cant see the bluff 5 miles away(which should be aqi 200+ unsafe for sensitive groups) . The sensors are 5 miles west of the coal plants (lot of good this one does prevailing west wind ) and 60 miles north east then the third 60 to the southeast . None in either of the 3 cities they are 20 miles apart in a triangle the largest is 10 from the coal plants. I really feel the placement is to keep the air quality index lower than it really is. Considering the 2 eastern ones are up high on the mesa and the canyon going east is always smoggy enough to burn your eyes and happens to between the 2 eastern sensors 20 south and 25 miles north very conveniently placed i am sure . Why not plop one in each city right smack dab in the middle like they do in big cities .

airnow.gov... Right now it says 41 and again the bluff is obscured with particulate matter and smog.

You have to keep in mind after ww11 the Drs. and scientists from Germany and Japan who should've been hung for crimes against humanity they were brought here and given University jobs and research money and a new life teaching the next generation of researchers and Doctors. What cities are actually just a giant test to these people? Vernal Ut could be one

a reply to: Bishop2199

The 3 components to ozone NO + VOC + sunlight and o2 in the ambient air . No from combustion engines and voc volatile organic chemicals all are found in abundance around oilfields they dont need to be blown in . At many well site you will have combustion engines running 24/7 and compressor stations also and all seep VOC continuously constant supply for 2/3 of the reaction. The clearer the air the higher amount of sunlight reaches the component vapors. SLC ozone could be being added to the local created ozone.

I wish ozone would be the answer to the deaths.

originally posted by: Lostinthedarkness
a reply to: Bishop2199

The 3 components to ozone NO + VOC + sunlight and o2 in the ambient air . No from combustion engines and voc volatile organic chemicals all are found in abundance around oilfields they dont need to be blown in . At many well site you will have combustion engines running 24/7 and compressor stations also and all seep VOC continuously constant supply for 2/3 of the reaction. The clearer the air the higher amount of sunlight reaches the component vapors. SLC ozone could be being added to the local created ozone.

I wish ozone would be the answer to the deaths.

So, just to clarify, you're saying ozone is NOT the cause of the neonatal deaths? Something is causing it... any idea what it might be if its not ozone?

a reply to: Bloomoon

My remarks were aimed at Ozone creation could be locally produced rather than on the wind. High ozone is common in many areas. Here if it get to .065ppm I have trouble breathing the threshold for epa is 0.075 ppm for unhealthy condition.

I never heard a effect like neonatal deaths from o3 I wish it was o3. I think that answer is too easy .

I have worked in Vernal 35+ years ago worked drilling rigs back then. When we drilled we pumped all sorts of chemicals in the ground . Some oil has xylene in it which i read causes birth defects . I am wondering if chemicals or petroleum products got into the ground water?

Does any one know if the deaths were from anglo or natives. Natives live closer to nature they would be more likely to get contaminated from chemicals or oil products . A lot of the wells we sunk were on the ute rez up there.

I cant say o3 isnt the culprit. but a bunch of mexican women had children with birth defects or still born without parts of their brains in Juarez south side of town after a study it was caused by a chemical plant in El paso that leaked chemicals . If I was to bet the cause if found will be chemicals in food or water.

a reply to: Lostinthedarkness

Thank you for explaining it that way. It makes perfect sense. It would appear that the possibilities are endless.