It could be you up there...

"I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore"

One thing that puzzles me to brute agony, is people calling themselves "Christians" extrapolating on the horrors Jesus went through, relying on a form of exegesis that resonates only in the eardrums of the damned. Particularily widespread is the idea that Jesus was killed, not by the crucifixion itself, but that his heart was pierced by the Roman centurion's lance, and that he was completely dead for three days before miraculously coming back to life and strolling out of the tomb to Galilee on a Sunday morning 2000 years ago after the shortest passover ever recorded. These "Christians" donot understand the Golden Rule-- or any of the following:

The brain can survive for up to about six minutes after the heart stops. The reason to learn cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) is that if CPR is started within six minutes of cardiac arrest, the brain may survive the lack of oxygen. After about six minutes without CPR, however, the brain begins to die.

Source: science.howstuffworks.com...

And:

A few days after death, these bacteria and enzymes [U: little organisms that live in the intestines] start the process of breaking down their host. The pancreas is full of so many bacteria that it essentially digests itself [source: Macnair]. As these organisms work their way to other organs, the body becomes discolored, first turning green, then purple, then black. If you can't see the change, you'll smell it soon enough, because the bacteria create an awful-smelling gas. In addition to smelling up the room, that gas will cause the body to bloat, the eyes to bulge out of their sockets and the tongue to swell and protrude.

Source: health.howstuffworks.com...

Now, if Jesus didn't die on the cross, then what happened? Surely he was beaten in Annas' basement to the extent that the normally very talkative Jesus was remarkably silent before Pilate and the mob where he was fitted with the crown of thorns and humiliated, still without speaking up or counter any of the approaches against him. In the next turn the normally strong craftsman was seen falling under the weight of the crossbeam he was carrying up 'Via Dolorosa' to Calvary (Golgotah) where he was nailed to it and lifted up on a tree, where he hang for about three hours before losing his ability to breathe and he passed out. The Centurion then confessed with a loud voice that "certainly, this was a son of the gods" (a common Roman idiom of the time for expressing a man's righteousness and innocence)-- and he pierced Jesus' chest with his lance and blood mingled with water flushed from the wound.

Speaking from experience, this scenario can only mean one thing. Jesus was suffering from 'tension pneumothorax', i.e. a ruptured lung, that eventually rendered him unable to speak properly, carrying a beam and eventually cease breathing and passing out:

It causes shortness of breath that quickly becomes more and more severe. This occurs when the tear on the lung acts like a one-way valve. In effect, each breath in (inspiration) pumps more air out of the lung, but the valve action stops air coming back into the lung to equal the air pressure. The volume and pressure of the pneumothorax increases. This puts pressure on the lungs and heart. Emergency treatment is needed to release the trapped air.

Source: www.patient.co.uk...

And the way to treat it? Exactly what is described in the crucifixion scene. Below are two videos showing [1] an emergency in-the-field procedure on a dummy:



And [2] a more intricate (and graphic!) procedure as it is mostly performed in hospitals today. Warning: Graphic footage. Real flesh and blood, not for the fainthearted, includes surgical incision and the drainage of hemothorax (accumulated blood and condensed water) from the chest:

[video removed]

Now, we all know the story, and I suggest that you all read it again, carefully, paying heed to all the little details and hints involved, there are quite a few-- before jumping on some bandwagon to refute my honest try at stuffing some sense into your feeble minds. For instance, at Calvary there were several people present worth taking note of:

- Longinus, the centurion with the spear. As a Roman legionaire, you were expected to know quite a bit of first-aid and simple surgical procedures like removal of arrowheads in flesh, stitching up larger cuts and as in this example-- treating pneumothorax, a common injury in the ancient battlefield. Longinus, being a centurion officer would have known how to diagnose and treat pneumothorax, and what he did is a text-book example of a simple, but effective emergency first step procedure. With skilled precision he placed the lance between the fourth and fifth ribs hitting spot on, indicated by the sudden flush of hemothorax fluids, blood mingled with water. To bystanders this must have looked like he stabbed Jesus in the heart. According to tradition, Longinus was executed a few days after the crucifixion, for having let a convicted criminal survive the death penalty. [John 15:13] Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. and apparently Jesus already had a star among the Roman centuria: [John 7:45f] The officers then came to the chief priests and Pharisees, who said to them, “Why did you not bring him?” The officers answered, “No one ever spoke like this man!”

- Nicodemus, the doctor. Having an experienced physician present would come in quite handy, and thanks to the next person in this list, he would have been able to start working on our patient soon after Jesus was taken down from the cross. Since the plan could go wrong and there was no guarantee Jesus would survive, Nicodemus had brought with him both Myrrh for embalming (about 30 kg) and aloës if he were indeed alive, in order to clean wounds to avoid infections. [John 19:39] Nicodemus also, who earlier had come to Jesus by night, came bringing a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about seventy-five pounds in weight.

- Joseph, the rich man. Joseph of Arimathea arranged with Pilate to take responsibility over Jesus, avoiding his body being transported to Gehenna for cremation which was mandatory with executed fellons, and eventhough Pilate refused to believe Jesus was already dead he let go, and Jesus was brought to his new and unused tomb nearby, and he also bought clean white linen from the unnamed weaverin saint also present at Calvary. [John 19:38] Joseph of Arimathea [...] asked Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus, and Pilate gave him permission.

Conclusion: Jesus lives, the Gospel shows us how he survived the crucifixion in an elaborate operation involving a field surgeon, a skilled physician and an influential politician with the means and facilities needed to bring Jesus safely away from the gates of Gehenna and back to life to tell the tale.

Jesus walked this earth for 40 days after His resurrection. He appeared to the disciples on at least four recorded occasions and prepared them for telling the good news that He, the Son of God, had come to mankind to save them. He did this by demonstrating He was God -- by simply appearing within locked rooms in their midst. He displayed his wounds and "doubting Thomas" put his finger into the nail hole of Christ's hand and his hand into the wound in Christ's side. On an occasion reported in 1 Corinthians 15:6, He appeared to over 500 of the brethren at one time. Another time after the apostles fished all night without a single catch, He gave them a miraculous catch of fish so large the apostles were amazed the nets didn't tear. Then after a breakfast Jesus prepared for the disciples, He asked Peter, the one who denied him three times, to publicly declare his love for Him three times (John 21:15-17). He went on to instruct Peter to feed and take care of His disciples. During these 40 days, Jesus taught the apostles -- showing them how He had fulfilled the Old Testament scriptures about Himself.

Jesus gave the apostles the "Great Commission" during this time. He told them to go into all the world preaching the Good News and making disciples of all nations. (Matthew 28:19) He also instructed them to wait together in Jerusalem for the Holy Spirit to empower them.

The last thing Jesus said (Acts 1:8-9) to the apostles was, "...you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth. After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight."

a reply to: Ophiuchus 13

Yes, people should focus on the LIVING Jesus and not extrapolate in how incredibly dead they claim he is. I say 'is' here since he could never have been resurrected had he been killed by a spear to his heart, being brain dead for days with resulting severe brain damage in just a few hours from cardiac arrest.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Yes 1 agrees for to do so may encourage the integrity of many once they realize the SON lives… The attack said to of happened on his flesh depending on his internal biological make up could of harmed his outer shell that he was within but w/o that bio data it is hard for 1 to totally remove that he went into a deep rest that could have been considered a resurrection.

When viewing higher advanced beings life and death as perceived by humanity may not be perceived by them at all for they may have ascended beyond those phases already especially if more elder in CREATION then mankind… w/o the data to verify speculation is all we can do in this area of the time loops. But to reiterate yes the Living for it would help them when the return is granted… nice read Utnapisjtim

NAMASTE*******

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Well I have to disagree with you buddy. The resurrection body is not a re-animation of the dead flesh.

Stone is to Flesh as Flesh is to Spirit

speaking here of the heart, when it says I will give you a heart of flesh and replace your stony heart, this is giving us a comparison. Since we don't have an actual stone heart but an actual flesh one, we can replace stone with flesh and flesh with spirit, or glorified body.

1 Cor 15 covers the glorified body and the resurrection in probably the most complete way of the bible.

I know you have a lot of philosophical issues with the meaning of the cross/death of Jesus, as viewed by most. I feel ya, but I personally see it differently. For me, the resurrection is the vindication of Jesus against his demonic accusers. When it says his blood speaks a better word than Able's, who cried for vengeance, no this blood speaks

SHALOM

FATHER FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO

I believe he literally died, NOT at the hands of God, NOT as a sacrifice to God, for God does NOT require sacrifices or take delight in them, BUT as a sacrifice to the god of this world (the Beast Mind/Carnal Mind), by his followers. The mind of man believes that God is vengeful, and angry and jealous, and will kill and destroy. The mind of man believed their god told them to commit genocide on the caananites. The mind of man believes that when Jesus comes back he's gonna be kicking' ace and taking names. The mind of man believes that Jesus is coming back in a flesh body.

2 Cor 5
16Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh; even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him in this way no longer. 17Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come. 18Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, 19namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation.

For me the resurrection has nothing to do with a literal body, but the raising up of the Tsar, Zar, Zer, Crown, Prince, Head, Rosh, Logos in ME… and you. The Logos become flesh, Tabernacling in Us. When the time has come to completion (40 weeks, 40 years, 40 days) then the head will crown (medical terminology in birthing) and fully born as the New man.

a reply to: zardust

"The king is dead. Long live the king!"

When I say Jesus lives, even today, I am not nessasarily thinking of the person who lived in Gallilee about 2000 years ago, but that he endured and survived crucifixion, in order to establish the bloodline that is alive today, after making it's way into, or rather paving the way for-- European royalty and a secular branch who eventually sparked the renaissance and parliamentarism securing the freedom principles we take for granted these days. As our books is a corpus written in the blood of saints and prophets, our Lord is one of highly physical presence. Today one highly flesh-and-blood live and kicking heir honoured Norwegian veterans for instance. Behind every spirit is a corpus. It's just explaining the physics involved which is so hard to make out: How can what you think be heard by people who were dead before you were even born? And are you really sure your body is truely yours? Could it be that some times your body is occupied by another spirit while your spirit rests in dreams where two days can pass in a few seconds?

a reply to: zardust

Thank you for being reasonable.All the religious fantasy of Yahoshua is just that and further evidence of how people only want to believe what they want to believe because being religious is their nature.

Sounds very logical. So what about the time he spent after his death visiting people and showing signs of being both in and out of our reality. Will there follow up theories on how he tricked everyone and how the holy spirit managed to be overcome all this time in discerning the word overall. I see your points but i also feel that if dna was both physical and spiritual then bloodlines could be brought forth in various forms.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
I suggest that you all read it again, carefully, paying heed to all the little details and hints involved, there are quite a few-- before jumping on some bandwagon to refute my honest try at stuffing some sense into your feeble minds.

Man ... that's a really snotty thing to say in a blanket opening post.
Feeble minds? Really? Eyewitness accounts are clear. He died. His heart was pierced with a sword. He was put in the tomb. Maybe I should respond and say that your speculation is a 'feeble' and desperate attempt to deny the death and resurrection. But instead I'll just say that scripture was very clear ... He was dead. And considering what He went through, it would be shocking if He weren't.

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
Now, if Jesus didn't die on the cross, then what happened?

But he did. Men who claim otherwise are liars and false teachers.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
I suggest that you all read it again, carefully, paying heed to all the little details and hints involved, there are quite a few-- before jumping on some bandwagon to refute my honest try at stuffing some sense into your feeble minds.

Man ... that's a really snotty thing to say in a blanket opening post.
Feeble minds? Really? Eyewitness accounts are clear. He died. His heart was pierced with a sword. He was put in the tomb. Maybe I should respond and say that your speculation is a 'feeble' and desperate attempt to deny the death and resurrection. But instead I'll just say that scripture was very clear ... He was dead. And considering what He went through, it would be shocking if He weren't.

Cute. Humour sometimes works at it's best when people misunderstand it. Feeling feebler?

originally posted by: RevelationGeneration

originally posted by: Utnapisjtim
Now, if Jesus didn't die on the cross, then what happened?

But he did. Men who claim otherwise are liars and false teachers.

The wound of Jesus was an 'vital surgical incision', not a 'bane' or a 'deadly wound'. The spear saved his life, it didn't kill him. It is the Beast who received a deadly strike and died to be majickally resurrected. Did you forget that part?

Jesus was dead alright. By iron age standards. And especially within Judaism where breath and spirit is the same word, and since Adam became a living soul after God breathed through his nostrils. Jesus stopped breathing, he was pronounced dead. On the other hand; according to today's standards, the answer is a different one. So the rhetorical genius Jesus himself is right when he postulates how he was dead but is alive at the time he handed over his Apocalypse to John at Patmos. Dead, not by spear or sword, but by a stroke of pen.

originally posted by: deadeyedick
Sounds very logical. So what about the time he spent after his death visiting people and showing signs of being both in and out of our reality. Will there follow up theories on how he tricked everyone and how the holy spirit managed to be overcome all this time in discerning the word overall. I see your points but i also feel that if dna was both physical and spiritual then bloodlines could be brought forth in various forms.

That's one interpretation, that he was a shapeshifting ghost who could walk through walls. I can also walk through walls, it's called walking through a door or climbing through windows. Carpenters (and computer geeks) have been joking about such things since the first wall was made. Just like stonecutters and architects move mountains. It's their job, not magic. And assuming Jesus was quite hairy, with long locks down his back and a beard that would make Osama embarrassed up to Rosemary sees him in the garden mistaking him for a much less hairier gardener who wouldn't want to get stuck in the roses and the tistles. In poetic words he bids Miriam not to touch him, he was recovering from having been beaten senseless and nailed to a tree a few days earlier, not because he was a literal ghost.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

What makes you think that European Royalty and the Secular world have anything to do with Jesus? If Jesus was the Son of God wouldn't you find it ridiculous that he would pave the way for a Godless political structure? If he was to return, is he just going to go with Democracy as his law of choice also? The Palestinians have a closer bloodline to Jesus than the Euro royals.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Particularily widespread is the idea that Jesus was killed, not by the crucifixion itself, but that his heart was pierced by the Roman centurion's lance . . .

I don't know anyone who thinks that.
The Gospel of John says that Jesus was already dead when the soldiers came to him to break his legs.
It doesn't say why one of them stabbed him, but I would assume that it was meant to prove that he was in fact already dead.
I suspect that you are reading some sort of Medieval mythology and accepting it as real history.

a reply to: RevelationGeneration

Well I wouldn't go that far because some of what s/he says brings up some good points and I cannot bring myself to believe that he came back from the dead three days later either.