Christians Worship Your Master

What is important for those in this thread to understand is that the English translation of the Greek was done in the late 1600's (King James).

When slavery was everywhere in colonial times.

King James wanted the Greek word doulos to be translated as "slave" in his translation for an agenda.

The fact of the matter is that 120/127 times doulos was recorded in scripture it was referring to paid servant, even though your English Bible says slave.

Do not let your hatred towards the God of the Bible cloud sound reasoning.

God Bless,

a reply to: ElohimJD

A bond servant wasn't paid! He had an amount of time till he was free. So not a slave for life, but still a slave.

Your just trying to shove what you wish were true into your religion.

a reply to: ElohimJD

No you don't know the word of god, you think you do because you got a fuzzy feeling when you read it. That's not knowing.


You yourself admitted the bible has been edited for political reasons. So you have absolutely no way of knowing what parts are true. You hope what you think is moral is true, but you don't know $**t.

Just a question, for my own curiosity: How many of you debating this slavery thing have studied the history of the Scriptures AND are very well versed in the culture of the Ancient Near East from 4000BC-100 CE? I mean more than a few weeks or months, but years studying the subject? I think much of this argument originates with us taking a very Western view of history and trying to apply it to a culture that is completely foreign to the ideas we espouse, and we forget that in a large society, you don't just bring radical, sudden change. Particularly to a highly superstitious people in the first place.

originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: ElohimJD

A bond servant wasn't paid! He had an amount of time till he was free. So not a slave for life, but still a slave.

Your just trying to shove what you wish were true into your religion.

Correct

The 7 times doulos is used in scripture as a bond-servant it is referring to slavery.

The 120 times it is used as paid servant (like in Eph 6:5) it is referring to employee.

Your just trying to shove what you want Christianity to be to justify your personal stance against it.

Examples of several doulos who are paid are found in Matt 25. Where each doulos was given various bags of gold and told by their employer to maximize the return on investment (like a stock broker/a type of paid servant). To one doulos 5 bags, to another doulos 2 bags and to a third doulos 1 bag.

Upon the employers return he looks at the production of each employee and rewards (pays) them accordingly.

Surely you can see this use of doulos is a paid servant right?

If not, then we will have to agree to disagree, as your desire to abhor God's Word and its authority over all life magnificently outweighs the use of reasoning in your mind regarding the topic.

God Bless,

a reply to: Everlastingknowitall

I disagree. If the bible is the be all end all book of how we should live it would fit into any age. It would be the definative guide for human life for all of human history.

Now if it's a creation of man and a book of anchient philosophy then your 100% right.

It really all comes down to how divine it is.

originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: ElohimJD

No you don't know the word of god, you think you do because you got a fuzzy feeling when you read it. That's not knowing.


You yourself admitted the bible has been edited for political reasons. So you have absolutely no way of knowing what parts are true. You hope what you think is moral is true, but you don't know $**t.

I know the Word of God because of the Living Almighty God and his awesome creation found in the Body of Christ.

The original Greek and Hebrew still exist today in original form, which is what I use in my translations.

I know what is true because of the Spirit of God dwelling in the minds of His "called out ones", not because of a "felling" I get when I read.

If you have eyes to see and ears to hear...

Leave your insults somewhere else, they bare no effect on me and weakens your points in effective communications.

God Bless,

a reply to: ElohimJD

They didn't have paid servants in anchient Rome!

Meanial labor was done by slaves. Especially house hold chores and such. No one went to work as a butler everyday then went home to your wife and kids with your pay check ( pouch). There was no paid service industry!

a reply to: ArtemisE

The trouble with this is that the Bible was intended to be the story that was told down through the generations. As part of that story, the history, culture, and lives of the people who lived and wrote it would be handed down as well and not forgotten. When we decided to chop it up into chapters and verses, we quite telling the story and became enslaved to quoting snippets instead to suit our own ends, and so lost much of the lens we needed to accurately engage the story.

The Old Testament is a historical narrative largely designed to set the stage for the coming of the Jewish Messiah in the opening books of the New Testament. If we don't use that lens, we can warp it pretty easily, as has been done for hundreds of years. It has much to teach the modern person, and it indeed does fit into any age in that sense, but it is historical narrative at its root. That's not hard to reconcile in my opinion. It can still be divinely inspired in that sense. Much of the problem with the modern Western church is that it has lost its ability to relate to the story, and the enormity of purpose the story conveys. Understanding the culture of the time the events in the narrative happened is an important part of understanding how the story evolved from Genesis to Matthew. It actually clarifies and focuses much of the fuzzy details.

a reply to: ElohimJD

A free man would not have needed to bring the gold back. If you give a free man a bag of gold. It's his to spend.

I think the fact they were required to bring the fruits of their purchase back strongly points to them being slaves. Who couldn't leave and do what they wished with the gold. It was their masters gold and they would be hunted down as thieves.


To be fair I'm remembering the story from Sunday school. So now I have to go read it errrr... Lol

a reply to: ArtemisE

This is true to a great degree, with few exceptions not needed to be hashed out here.

And to Everlastingknowitalls extremely valid point, the culture Jesus Christ and His apostles were living in and attempting to teach Godly principals in was one of servitude under roman rule, as such it makes sense the words used would be in line with that culture; however how you treat those in charge of you (whether employer, commander, boss, parent etc.) is what the purpose of the scriptures was intended to convey.

As such the principals apply to both bond slaves and paid servants in all eras of mankind's history.

Truth be told we are all slaves (employees) today, unless you own a business then you are a master (and scripture has rules for you as well). You can choose who you serve today, but you must serve someone, or starve. How you treat the one who you serve is the spiritual intent of the words used. Applying them to your situation in life in any era would be valuable in spiritual growth.

God's way of thinking isn't about how to make a human being comfortable it is about how to make a human being Elohim (member of the family of God/household of God); for this reason was all life created and Jesus Christ died.

God Bless,

a reply to: ElohimJD

It's not the same. You can't rape your employees. You can't sell your employees children. I agree we worship money. But comparing capitalism it real slavery isn't a fair comparison.

originally posted by: ElohimJD
a reply to: ArtemisE

The scriptures refer to paid servants, not unpaid servants (slaves).

Servants (paid employees), be obedient to your employers placed over you physically, with honest hearts as you obey Christ. Not pretending to care, as those who try to please others do, but as you serve Christ (sacrifice the will of self for the betterment of others in business).

In this verse the term Master is presently understood as "employer" and the term Servant is presently understood as "employee".

Basically, be the best employee for your employer as you can be, in honesty and self sacrifice; in the same manner you try to be the best disciple of Christ, in honesty and self sacrifice.

You must see spiritually to understand scripture, otherwise you place your personal natural animosity toward Almighty God (bias) into all the personal interpretations therein.

God Bless,

I'll repeat this for you:

EXODUS 21
Laws About Slaves

"Now these are the rules that you shall set before them. When you buy a Hebrew slave, he shall serve six years, and in the seventh he shall go free, for nothing. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him....

That doesn't sound like a job of work to me, that's a slave.

originally posted by: ArtemisE


Got into a debate about slavery in the bible that required a little research and ran across a pretty amazing verse.



Ephesians 6:5-9: "Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free. And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him."

So according to the bible you shouldn't rebel against slavery. You should worship your master as if he were Christ himself. I really think this is funny when comparing it to the conservative evangelical movement in America. For all there talk of freedom. According to there religion, it's over rated.

It seems interesting to me that you quote Ephesians, but only speak about the first half of the verse.
From your quote, it does say be obedient to them according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, as unto Christ, and not with eye service,- which I take to mean really feel that way.- But as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart with good will doing service, as to the Lord, and NOT men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man does, so shall he receive in the Lord. The verse goes on to say to any masters, do the same, know your own master is in heaven, and he does not care what your place on this earth was/is.

I don't know if the word for servant, or how it was used back then was talking about employee or an actual slave. I think the passage was more about have hope in the end, and do good in this life, because at the end we will be all judged regardless of status here.

Just what I got from it.