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Texas cop shoots 93 year old woman to death- justified?

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posted on May, 8 2014 @ 12:55 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80
a reply to: crazyewok

Cause a 93 year old women couldn't have not heard the warning...


Maybe maybe not?


It public safety at stake here. what if she had opened fire on someone on the second warning.

Standard procedure in most country's in armed instances is you get one warning then your put down.
You dont take chances with firearms.

It simple, don't threaten people with guns and you wont risk getting shot.




posted on May, 8 2014 @ 01:05 PM
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a reply to: jburg6

As a man, I'd be ashamed of myself if I shot a 93 year old woman. The officer who did should be too, even more so since he blasted her 5 times.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

What if she dropped her gun at the second warning?
What if the gun was not loaded?
What if she didn't know how to shoot the gun?
What if her arthritis acted up and couldn't handle the trigger pull

Not so sure the SOP is one warning and then fire...

She was 93, not sure where it is so simple comes into play..



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 01:15 PM
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originally posted by: Sremmos80


What if she dropped her gun at the second warning?
What if the gun was not loaded?
What if she didn't know how to shoot the gun?
What if her arthritis acted up and couldn't handle the trigger pull





All what if that could have resulted in a innocent getting shot and killed.

She was not innocent she was threatening someone with a gun.

Gun will kill regardless of the age of the holder.

She was breaking the law and putting the public at risk. Failure to follow procedure just cause she was old could have resulted in innocent deaths.

If it was 20 something gang banger we would not be discussing this and as I said age does not matter on who fires a gun.


Don't get shot don't threaten people with guns!



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 01:17 PM
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This is why we need a "one and done" bee sting law for all cops. If you kill in the line of duty right or wrong you get retired. Then maybe you'll make damned sure that you need to pull that trigger.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 01:20 PM
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a reply to: crazyewok

I would argure that the 20 year old didn't deserve to get shot either, unless he pointed the gun AT the cop.
Age does matter, and so does intent. Did she really have intent to kill some one?
We can't control accidents and we shouldn't try to so hard to.

If she did fire a shot then this killing would have been justified.... But she didn't...
We have another person dead for what they MIGHT have done, not what they DID

ETA:

All what if that could have resulted in a innocent getting shot and killed.


How so when my first what if was what if she dropped the gun on the second warning? And I will add what if she dropped the gun after the third of fourth warning....
1 warning and then shoot seems VERY weak SOP to me

edit on thThu, 08 May 2014 13:29:51 -0500America/Chicago520145180 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)

edit on thThu, 08 May 2014 13:30:33 -0500America/Chicago520143380 by Sremmos80 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 01:22 PM
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a reply to: abe froman

This is a great idea.
Or they should always be considered in the wrong, until they are proven in the right.
Make them get arrested and go through a the process of being a man suspected of killing some one.
That is what happens to the citizen



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 01:31 PM
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It simple, don't threaten people with guns and you wont risk getting shot.


If it were that simple since it doesn't explain all the non gun handlers being shot.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 01:57 PM
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a reply to: Sremmos80

This "ATS cop" is staying away from the thread because it is pointless to argue anymore. I am actually trying as hard as I can to stay out of every police related thread. However, sometimes I just can't help to comment. I just don't understand how people can comment on a job that they don't or have never done. Or how they think they know how to best handle a situation that they have never been in.

My conclusion that people who hate the police, will always hate the police. No matter what is done they will find wrong in it.

In regards to this situation, if the officer didn't shoot she may have ran back into the house and shot her relative. Then there would be an outcry from the police bashers that the officer failed to act. A lose, lose situation.

Let me ask the people who feel the officer was in the wrong. What would you have done in this situation?



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 02:00 PM
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Oh I don't know, if I were a cop and someone was pointing a gun at me, threatening me, I would shoot them too. I'd do the same thing as a citizen. Being old has nothing to do with it. Maybe she didn't look that old? Either way, a life is gone. Sad that she didn't have any family that had enough sense to take her gun from her long ago.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: Fylgje

Very good point. Perhaps the family should of intervined before. I am sure there were signs that it may have been time to take the gun away along with the car keys.

I also agree that age has nothing to do with the situation.

Tragedy for everyone involved.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 02:08 PM
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im very pro gun and have been very critical of police but this was a clean shoot,to those that say taze her shes a 93 year old lady it would kill her just as fast (heart attack) same for bean backs would shatter her frail bones and cripple her. the minute she picked up a gun waved it around her own family and threated them and did not comply with the cop was the moment she crossed the line,could the cops have brought along a mental health worker or trained officer in that feild sure but going to a 93 year old lady they problay thought they would just be talking to some angry old lady not dealing w a shooting situation. my take at least for what its worth



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: TorqueyThePig

That is part about being a cop, being the guy that is stuck in the lose lose situation.

If the officer didn't shot there was a chance of here putting the gun down too. Same odds as her running back into the house.
At least if she ran into the house and actually committed a violent act then the cop would have been in the right without a shadow of a doubt, but that wasn't the case.
The only point I would have argued there is what type of non lethal was deployed that she was able to withstand to make her run inside away from the cop.
Much worse lose lose situation then a women that was shot 5 times for brandishing.
Cops brandish all day every day, twice on sunday

As I stated before, we have another person dead for what they MIGHT have done, not what they did.
And I say that from the standpoint of everyone saying " well she could have killed the officer or hurt someone else"

At the end of the day, the only person hurt was the one every one thought was going to hurt some one else


Oh and I would have waited till I was shot at or the gun pointed at me and I could see her finger on the trigger. Until then I would have tried to talk her down as I got close enough to deploy a non lethal force.

Would you have shot her?



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 02:16 PM
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The problem with speculation such as 'running back in the house and shooting a relative' is that it may or may not happen.

I can easily be speculated that it could have been solved in a non lethal way.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 02:18 PM
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originally posted by: TorqueyThePig
I just don't understand how people can comment on a job that they don't or have never done. Or how they think they know how to best handle a situation that they have never been in.


While I agree with most of your post, I think that people can comment freely on police behavior. We interact with them in our society and if nobody questions the police they (as a group) can get overly aggressive (LAPD for example).

By your logic we could not question our representatives either or the president because we have not had those jobs.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 02:22 PM
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What a sad situation. It is excessive (5 shots!?) and naturally, being a citizen I wonder if non-lethal action could have been taken instead. Are bean bag shotgun rounds standard issue? I would think that would drop her just as quick and hopefully not kill her.
I have to say, we have a family friend in her 70's. She is delusional but not enough to get sent away. She has a gun, is unable to drive but thinks she can (no license at the moment thank goodness), and has issues with her neighbors. She also has a terrible habit of NOT LISTENING. Recently something happened and she called us up in a state saying she was going to take her gun and go around the neighborhood. If a cop was ordering her to drop her weapon the first thing she would do is start babbling hysterically and arguing and then she'd be dead. We told her YOU WILL DO NO SUCH THING, YOU ARE NOT RATIONAL RIGHT NOW. Thank God she calmed down and the situation turned out to not be anything like she had imagined as we suspected. Completely harmless in fact!



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 02:24 PM
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a reply to: Sremmos80

If I was in the same situation knowing that she already assaulted her relative with the firearm, then she brandished the gun in my direction, not putting it down upon my command, yes I would of shot.

Waiting for the person to shoot first is a good way to be killed. Contrary to popular belief going home at the end of the shift is not the only thing on an officers mind. We also like to stay alive, because for example in this situation if the lady shot and killed the officer she could of then killed her relative. We also need to stay alive to be able to help others stay alive.

We do not use less lethal means when someone has a gun. There is less of a chance that the person will be incapacitated by less lethal means. They may still be able to use their firearm.

Pistols are notorious for being poor at stopping human aggressors unless a head shot is used. We are trained to fire at the biggest target which is center mass. We are also trained to shoot until the aggressor goes down. There are tons of studies and youtube videos explaining how pistols suck at stopping with one shot.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 02:25 PM
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a reply to: TorqueyThePig




Let me ask the people who feel the officer was in the wrong. What would you have done in this situation?


I wouldn't have shot the 93 year old woman 5 times. See that reeks of an officer that either has no compassion for his fellow man or that can't keep his wits about him in a stressful situation. Either way, I don't think he should go to jail over it, he clearly acted within the boundaries of what the law allows, but I think he's shown he doesn't have what it takes and should be told to look into another career if he can't reach that realization on his own.

As far as people's indignation and anger towards the police, a lot of you have earned it, either by acting like a member of a street gang or remaining silent when your fellow officers do.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 02:30 PM
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Pistols are notorious for being poor at stopping human aggressors unless a head shot is used. We are trained to fire at the biggest target which is center mass. We are also trained to shoot until the aggressor goes down. There are tons of studies and youtube videos explaining how pistols suck at stopping with one shot.


Any of those YouTube videos/studies you refer to include a 93 year old woman?

I'll grant you this isn't the worse officer shooting, at least she wasn't armed with a garden hose or a shoe horn, but it's certainly nothing to be proud of or held up as an example.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: Elton

No you are correct. I have no problem with people commenting on police behavior. I just get upset when people negatively comment about police procedures that they don't understand.

Personally I don't make criticisims on something unless I understand the subject.



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