Eucharistic Miracle: Hoax or Reality?

a reply to: Akragon

Surely the early church did not take it for anything more then symbolic

Of course they did! It's one of the main reasons that I converted to Catholicism. The real presence of Christ in the Eucharist is one of the oldest teachings of the Church.

The Early Church Fathers Speak about the Eucharist: The Body and Blood of Christ, the Real Presence of Christ

Its rather ironic that nothing like this "miracle" ever occurred before these times, when just about anything can be faked…

There have been reports of this happening for over a thousand years. Eucharistic Miracles

a reply to: adjensen

Im not denying the early church took part in the breaking of bread drinking of wine... Or even this "real presence" but again this is ritual spirituality... Said presence would be spiritual not physical...

There is no mention of the bread becoming actual flesh or the wine becoming actual blood... I can only imagine if something like this happened back then it would be written about...

Even in your other link theres only one mention earlier then when this transubstantiation thing started...

Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano
In the year 700 at the monastery of St. Longinus in Luciano, Italy, a priest from the Order of St. Basil was celebrating Mass. Having doubted the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the priest saw, during the consecration, the bread miraculously transformed into a circle of flesh and the wine appear as bright as fresh blood. Eventually, the liquefied blood turned into five pellets of various sizes and shapes. When the local archbishop later weighed the pellets, it was discovered that one nugget weighed the same as all five together, two as much as any three, and the smallest as much as the largest.

Which is still 600 some odd years after the fact...

a reply to: Akragon

That isn't transubstantiation, that is a Eucharistic miracle, they are not the same thing.

The term "transubstantiation" may be of more recent origin, but the Church has always taught that Christ is physically present in the Eucharist. As my first link demonstrated, the early church Fathers taught it, and it comes from the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles (who were the ones who did not leave after the "hard teaching".)

I'd have to say hoax, crackers don't just turn into heart tissue. Maybe I'm wrong, but I have to see it to believe it when it comes to things like this.

If I had to wager, I'd say whoever had the cracker in their hands exchanged it with a piece of heart tissue from an animal. The more people in the congregation, the more money the church makes. I'm willing to bet this "miracle" brought lots of new converts into the fold, or at least some.

originally posted by: adjensen
a reply to: Akragon

That isn't transubstantiation, that is a Eucharistic miracle, they are not the same thing.

The term "transubstantiation" may be of more recent origin, but the Church has always taught that Christ is physically present in the Eucharist. As my first link demonstrated, the early church Fathers taught it, and it comes from the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles (who were the ones who did not leave after the "hard teaching".)

Lets take a look at what was actually said by HIM...

Pardon the length for anyone who does not enjoy the gospels...

John 6

25 And when they had found him on the other side of the sea, they said unto him, Rabbi, when camest thou hither?

26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

41 The Jews then murmured at him, because he said, I am the bread which came down from heaven.

42 And they said, Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? how is it then that he saith, I came down from heaven?

43 Jesus therefore answered and said unto them, Murmur not among yourselves.

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.

46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48 I am that bread of life.

49 Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50 This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52 The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58 This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

59 These things said he in the synagogue, as he taught in Capernaum.

60 Many therefore of his disciples, when they had heard this, said, This is an hard saying; who can hear it?

61 When Jesus knew in himself that his disciples murmured at it, he said unto them, Doth this offend you?

62 What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?

63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

He says over and over one must eat his flesh and drink his blood, but then he expands on the idea which one can clearly see he meant this in an allegorical way... not literally..

The flesh profiteth nothing... It is the words that he spoke that give life, not the breaking of bread...

As HE said, the words are spirit, and life...

When a piece of an actual heart appears on or in a cracker... this turns the spiritual idea of what he was saying into a physical part of him... Or at least this is what this transubstantiation thing wants to show...

Now don't get me wrong... IF you believe in his presence in the Eucharist I have no issue with that... to each their own

But that isn't what this is about... were talking about a priest dropping the "Host" then putting it in water, and said cracker becoming a living piece of a human heart, which beats like a real heart...

Which was also examined by so called "Cardiac specialists" who didn't know what to make of it... and coincidently didn't decide to report their findings to any medical board

Again, its a little hard to swallow

originally posted by: Agartha
a reply to: ketsuko

I respect your faith and belief but I don't agree: where you see a miracle, I see something that we still don't understand. Where you see the act of god, I just see the act of nature and its laws. In the end most miracles are analyzed and understood in a scientific way.

Also, I have Norwegian friends who believe in God, they believe in Thor. My pagan friends believe in The Goddess... who is right and who is wrong? Impossible to tell.

My friend, let's agree to disagree, eh?

Only He knows at the end of it all what is in our hearts, and that will be between you and Him. It is not for any of us to judge the depth or type of another's faith.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: adjensen

Im not denying the early church took part in the breaking of bread drinking of wine... Or even this "real presence" but again this is ritual spirituality... Said presence would be spiritual not physical...

There is no mention of the bread becoming actual flesh or the wine becoming actual blood... I can only imagine if something like this happened back then it would be written about...

Even in your other link theres only one mention earlier then when this transubstantiation thing started...

Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano
In the year 700 at the monastery of St. Longinus in Luciano, Italy, a priest from the Order of St. Basil was celebrating Mass. Having doubted the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist, the priest saw, during the consecration, the bread miraculously transformed into a circle of flesh and the wine appear as bright as fresh blood. Eventually, the liquefied blood turned into five pellets of various sizes and shapes. When the local archbishop later weighed the pellets, it was discovered that one nugget weighed the same as all five together, two as much as any three, and the smallest as much as the largest.

Which is still 600 some odd years after the fact...

Akragon,

Holy Cats! I love your thread, just saw it!

adjensen is correct, transubstantiation is NOT to give example, the Argentinian Eucharistic miracle you posted. Transubstantiation is the term for confecting the Eucharist. May I say again...

Thanks for your thread, how beautiful!!! There are miracles within miracles if you listen to the scientist in the
YouTube. The original YouTube has over a million views. Back to adjensen's comments...

A Eucharistic Miracle is God wanting to bring you to belief so He does something you can SEE, spectacular, miraculous
to get your attention.

"Bleeding hosts" are a sign to help you believe. At Mass, God is far above, as Jesus explained, do not think
of cannibalism. Do not think in a human way. Think "spirit and life" as Jesus explained the Eucharist. Every time Our Lord used the word "spirit" in the Gospel he was speaking supernaturally. This is supernatural, not human body parts
and blood. The reason...

The Eucharist is not cannibalism, the host and wine becomes the risen Christ by God's doing. Jesus' risen body, blood, soul and divinity in the consecrated host and the consecrated wine. Seee...supernatural! This is all God's
idea.

You do NOT see a change in the bread and wine (the accidents). The "substance" though IS changed! The bread and wine become Our Lord's risen body, blood, soul and divinity...at the priest's words of consecration. So, it takes
total faith on your part to believe.

God wants everyone to believe...in John 6, count them, four times Our Lord says if you eat My body and drink My
blood you will have everlasting life.

God is going to show the entire world in the prophesied Warning (AWAKENING), remember, give your yes to
God! All of prophecy makes sense, fits, the "awakening" takes place before the anti-Christ comes to full power. God is going to warn of his evil plans to chip you! Do NOT take the chip. And it is prophesied, the anti-Christ will attempt to take away the Eucharist. This is the "abomination of desolation" repeated in the book of Daniel.

Some fantastic grammatical aerobics in here wow!

Taken from the videos comments, it sums up this ridiculousness quite well...

Hey God can you help out all the children around the world who are being abused or are other wise suffering?

GOD; " No, but I will turn a cracker into skin."

John Chapter 6 clarifies that Jesus did not say start a Eucharist. Jesus refers to Bread as his body and Wine as his blood. the Bread and Wine is symbolist to receiving Jesus into your life. eating Jesus means being fed the Word of God. therefore, I believe the Eucharist Miracle of wafer turning into a beating heart flesh is a Hoax to affirm the loyalty of Catholics to follow their False priests. Jesus is the only high Priest and all other men are equal under him. You receive the Crown of Life when you enter into Heaven after receiving him in this world and following after his commandments. If a Miracle happens while taking Eucharist it will be something from a persons faith not the ritual. Jesus was walking down the street and turned to see a woman touching his robe. He said I felt the power leave me to go into you. The woman who touched him was healed of her menstrual disease. Jesus said: Your faith hath healed you. Our Faith brings miracles, not, taking symbolic wafers and wine.