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Will you dodge the draft?

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posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 11:50 AM
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Even if Bush himself came to my front door and asked me to go, I wouldn't. Me and my fiance are both 20 and we have both decided that we will be moving to Canada once the Neocons introduce the draft. This is not WWII where we are fighting to save millions of people from being murdered because of being born a jew. This is not the American Revolution where we are fighting to be free and keep a tyrant from ruling us from afar. And this is not a Civil War in which we are fighting to stay united as a country. All of those wars were honorable to fight in and if I was alive during these time periods, I would gladly fight for my country and my freedom. The only people jeopordizing my freedom right now are the ones who are gonna send me to Iraq. The ones who will not send their kids to war. The only problem with dodging the draft and moving to Canada is that I will never be allowed to come back to the United States, which is the country I love. But maybe after a couple of years of not having to be afraid that my neighbor is going to kill me in my sleep, and after a couple of years of not having to pay for my medical bills, maybe then, the US of A won't seem so great anymore, but at least the USA will still have a destructive weapon capable of wiping out millions of people....that's something to be proud of


[edit on 11/29/2004 by KISSfreak]




posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 11:55 AM
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Originally posted by Ultra_Troopa_O_Muzic
Im 17 1/2 so i can be drafted and no, i wouldn't go. i'd kill myself first.


If you would rather kill yourself anyway, you might as well put your life to use and fight the war. Or do something revolutionary.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 12:13 PM
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Originally posted by KISSfreak
we will be moving to Canada once the Neocons introduce the draft.
... The ones who will not send their kids to war.


Guess you don't have to move to Canada then ... because it's the
DEMOCRATS that have introduced the draft in congress and it's the
DEMOCRATS that voted for it while the Republicans voted against it.
So if the democrats introduce the draft you'll be staying? Seems you
have a much bigger chance of being drafted by the dems.

No 'kids' are 'sent' to war.
Adults volunteer to serve in our Armed Forces.

No kids. No sending.
All Adults. All volunteers.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 12:15 PM
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Wether you agree with your government or not, by avoiding a draft you are making the situation for non draft dodgers more dangerous. For each man or women we are short, its that much more dangerous for the people that actually go. Draft dodgers should be shot for treason. Pure and simple. You should be shot once for each person killed in action who went in your place. I have no simpathy for cowards. How could you live with yourself knowing that other people are dying in your place? How could you look into the eye's of somebody who went in your place? People who draft dodge should be forced to renounce thier US citizenship and move from the country.

Dont get me wrong: I hate GWB and this war. I think we shouldnt be there at all. But you know what? We are there and our brothers are dieing there every day. Right, wrong, or indifferent they need our support and any American not willing to do it isnt an American to me. This nation wasnt founded by cowards...



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by Xatnys
So obviously, you didn’t understand it. So again, obviously, your statements made it clear you didn’t understand.

If you can't parse what the meaning of
"If [...]you burn your draft card and refuse to register, you have committed a crime. If you call on others to do so, you have also commited a crime. " is and how it temporarlly relates to 'being called in for the draft' then I suppose there isn't any sense in belabouring the issue.



And remain there for the rest of your life, a criminal on the lamb from the law, literally. Because when the draft is over and the war is over, that doesn't mean that draft dodgers aren't still sought after or that some statute of limitations has run out. After vietnam, the president himself had to pardon en mass everyone who fled the country and dodged the draft, otherwise they'd still be pursused to this day


Maybe, maybe not. Is that a possibility? Yes.
If you are honestly considering resisting the draft and even dodging it if your number comes up then you really, really need to go into it with the understanding that, until you are captured and sentenced, you will be a wanted criminal and, if you left the country, will not be allowed back in.


Is that hard for you to understand as well?

Apparently its too difficult for you to decide if what you are claiming to be ready to do is illegal or not. If you do it, you are breaking the law. I am fully aware that you might be fine with that. However, you indicated that 'maybe you were or maybe you weren't' going to get arrested or be doing something illegal. Lets just keep it straight, since you obviously have some kind of problem with it, resisting the draft is illegal, and if you think Bush and his administration is for some unknown reason not going to arrest and prosecute you for it you are dreaming, and are probably incapable of mounting any sort of 'draft resistance' anyway.


What makes you think that the judge presiding is going to allow media in the court room or will allow the trial to become a soapbox? They can put a gag order on you and your lawyers and anyone associated with the case.



My my, what a pessimistic, linear thinker you seem to be.

I have only pointed out that if they want they can prevent you from using the court proceedings as a way of spreading your message to break the law. This is not 'pessimistic'.


I can write letters to every newspaper I can find, can’t I?

No, you cannot violate a court ordered gag order


I can send letters with my friends and family, have them publish them on the web, can’t I?

No, you cannot violate a court ordered gag order. How does having your mommy deliver the letter make a difference?


I can have friends and family get together and lobby various news sources so that I may be granted an interview wherever I’m confined, can’t I?

No, you cannot violate a court orderd gag order and neither can your mommy or friends.


You need to enhance the scope of your thought.

You perhaps need to learn what 'enhance' and 'scope' mean.


Your scope of life is too small.

You know absolutely nothing about me kid.


I’m not going to live in fear, not fear of the government, not fear instilled by individuals such as you.

And I suggested that you should exactly how?


That’s my stand, and you can attack my stance as much as you like,

In case you haven't noticed, i have not been attacking you 'stance'.




WAS THAT TOO HARD FOR YOU TO UNDERSTAND?

Apparently it was for you. Does writting in caps make your postion clearer somehow? If your mommy deleivers a letter to the newspapers and its written in all caps are people going to listen to you then?


kissfreak
WWII where we are fighting to save millions of people from being murdered because of being born a jew

WWII had little do do with the nazi position on jewishness.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 12:44 PM
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I would not go. My personal goals in life do not include killing another person and having somebody's casket on my soul is not the burden I want to live with. I refuse (and have already been asked) to use my education toward any type of military inclusion.

If it came down to it I would flee to another country to dodge it.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 12:49 PM
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My my, it seems someone's ego has been bruised.


Yours, I'm afraid.


Great job at excessive quoting in an effort to make a "non point".


Your retort is really meaningless, that's rather funny to me.

Hardly deserving of a response, you will get one, because to not respond to you would only feed your ego. Can’t have that now, can we?




If you can't parse what the meaning of


You, were the one who failed to comprehend that I was not speaking of actions to be taken “after being a fugitive”, that was your folly, not mine. That was your miscomprehension, not mine.

Non point indeed.




If you are honestly considering resisting the draft and even dodging it if your number comes up then you really, really need to go into it with the understanding that, until you are captured and sentenced, you will be a wanted criminal and, if you left the country, will not be allowed back in.


Another non-point from you. I never disputed there would be repercussions to my actions. I told you that I ACCEPT them, and will stand and do what is right, in spite of that possibility. If I reach only one other, then it was worth it to me. What’s your point? You have none that I had rejected, I accept it is a possibility, and would do so anyway. Yet again, you fail to grasp that.



Apparently its too difficult for you to decide if what you are claiming to be ready to do is illegal or not.


Your weakest position yet. Did I ever say my actions should not be considered “Illegal” by the powers-that-be?
No.
So what are you saying here? Nothing. I never was under the impression that my actions would be considered “legal” by the government. I guess you couldn’t understand that, either….




I have only pointed out that if they want they can prevent you from using the court proceedings as a way of spreading your message to break the law. This is not 'pessimistic'.


Wrong. To act like your previous statement was THE ONLY truth, and that I’d have no form of recourse in order to get my view out. Is both narrow-minded and pessimistic. You can point out some facts and be “open minded”, you cannot point out some facts, state them as the only facts, and appear “open minded” or optimistic. It’s your view that defines you, not me.




No, you cannot violate a court ordered gag order


Wrong. You are a mindless drone. A prime example of social engineering. While I could not write letters to the press that would discuss my case, I most certainly could still write them and petition them for an audience on the overall subject that I’d be fighting for. You’re limited view has answered for you yet again.



No, you cannot violate a court ordered gag order. How does having your mommy deliver the letter make a difference?


Wrong again. I can give them any and all information I wish. Provided I don’t directly tie it to my legal proceedings. Once they have certain information, how they act upon it is their choice. However, I’m sure they would do what’s right. Limited by your statements again.



No, you cannot violate a court orderd gag order and neither can your mommy or friends.


Wrong, their actions are their own. Anything they do regarding the general stance I defend(Anti draft) is not subject to a gag order. Now if they were trying to get me out of jail by presenting “my side” that would be another matter entirely, but that’s not what I’m after. Or do you still fail to understand that?




You perhaps need to learn what 'enhance' and 'scope' mean.


I find it laughable that you presume you do know their definitions, yet deny my analysis of your statements to be accurate. You are the living example of narrow-scope of view and need to enhance your current understanding if you ever wish to improve it.



You know absolutely nothing about me kid.


Only what you show me. Through your ego, through your narrow responses.
If the truth hurts, this statement of yours shows you have been maimed this time.
That you would begin to lecture me on not knowing you, yet then make a sweeping generalization calling me a “kid”? You just dig yourself a deeper hole and reveal more and more about your true nature. Indeed, I only know what you show me, but what you show reinforces my statements, not yours.




And I suggested that you should exactly how?


That’s your entire position of this discussion. You operate(initially) on the premise that “You don’t know the law, they can throw you in the gulag for the rest of your life!!!”. Which in and of itself is based in fear. Your using the fear of legal repercussions as the “tip of the spear” in your whole stance. A stance that is invalid and rather dry, to be honest with you.


I fear you still don’t understand, but I also think that it’s beyond you to, if that’s any consolation to you.

X

Again, nice try, though.


[Edit-skippytjc

So what are you saying, exactly? That while you oppose a confrontation, the fact that you government has created a confrontation is enough reason to go become part of the war machine? That's enough of a reason to kill the "bad guys"? That's enough of a reason for you, or for anyone to be forced to put your life on the line for something you didn't support and did not want?

Where's the logic in your(initially undesired) support of a war machine, when you wanted no part of it in the first place? Why is that logical to you, rather than standing up against the machine you yourself didn't agree with? Why is that more logical than trying to get your own point of view accross to the citizens, to save them from becoming "cannon fodder"?

It's better for you to go and be part of an offensive(not defensive, mind you) effort that has hidden agendas and was(potentially) started via deception of the citizens by their very government?

You should die for that?

You should support that?

You should stand by and let it occur unchallenged?

Tell me.

X

[edit on 29-11-2004 by Xatnys]



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 12:53 PM
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They should tatoo all draft dodgers with the word: "Coward" accross thier forheads. Then recall thier citizenship and send them to France.

Ill repeat: I hate this war and GWB, but damned if I am going to leave my countrymen hanging.

[edit on 29-11-2004 by skippytjc]

[edit on 29-11-2004 by skippytjc]



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 05:05 PM
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Originally posted by DrHoracid
To all of those who would post your willingness to dodge the draft, please also post your name and address. It will make life a little easier on the police.
Dr, your threats are getting you nowhere. Stop the harrasment.
A question was posed here, and people are answering.
Polish your guns and enlist. I hear the armed forces are going to need you.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 05:19 PM
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To all government employee's here on ats: No I would never dodge the draft!


To all the non-government employee's on ats: Hell YES i'm dodging the draft what are you crazy?!



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 05:25 PM
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"RUN COWARD RUN"




Deep within this Marine, the hatred I have for you has no cure,
you ran and let My Country down, and that's for sure ....

I lived in the jungle where day after day it was death, blood, sweat and tears,
but you really didn't care about me in Vietnam, for you had no fears ....

By day and night you'd protest, party, laugh and play,
while back in Vietnam, "Tom's been killed" I'd hear them say ....

As a Marine I stand Proud and Tall, from My Country, I'd never run,
even though I know Vietnam is not a game, nor is it fun ....

I made alot of friends in Vietnam .... Tom, Bill, Gunner and Joe,
but to visit them now, to Arlington National Cemetary I must go ....

One day I stood in silence overlooking the graves of all who died,
they had served their country with Honor, Dignity and Pride ....

I cried tears one rainy day in Vietnam until I couldn't see,
trying to comfort my dying friend, he said to me, "bye Al, remember me" ....

My close friend had died for his country with Pride, and without shame,
while you went to Canada thinking this was all a game ....

Never shall I consider forgiving you for running away,
to me, your a coward and a disgrace to My Country is all I can say ....

The hatred embedded within me toward cowards like you,
will never be forgotten within me, no matter what you say or do ....

America is My Country, and it's the freedom that I enjoy and love,
and I will serve My Country again if push comes to shove ....

To avoid the draft, you deserted My Country to do nothing but hide,
while American Patriots fight in Vietnam, and many have died ....

You treated me with great dis-respect and dis-honor when I came back,
you smoked your weed, called me filthy names, and manners you did lack ....

War is hell, and we realize that many good men will die,
It breaks my heart to see parents of KIA's break down and cry ....

You don't deserve the freedom that I fought to preserve, you ran to hide,
so stay in Canada cowards, and permanently there reside ....

This Marine shall NEVER forgive you for running, or forget it,
without shame or guilt, upon your grave I shall spit .


members.tripod.com...



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 05:36 PM
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know what IS ironic?
the pres in charge dodged draft yet everyone is saying HE will enforce a draft HA HA.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 05:37 PM
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First of all, there will be no draft.

2nd, the original post asked if we would dodge the draft. My answer is: Volunteer, and you don't have to dodge. I personally believe every american should go through basic training...they don't even have to serve after that, just go through basic training. Imagine your proudest moment in your life, then multiply that by about 100. That is the pride you feel when you complete basic training. You have immense pride for yourself, and for your country. You will never take little things for granted again. This country would be so much better off if everyone had to do this.

For those of you who will flame me about "military brainwashing" or something similarly rediculous, I recommend you not bother, because you don't know what you're talking about.

My answer: No, I would not dodge the draft. I've been in the military once, I can do it again.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 05:38 PM
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its not that easy to dodge draft, plus the war is gonna happen anyways like it is still goin on. People like me volunteered into the armed forces and didnt need to dodge any type of draft.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 05:44 PM
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Originally posted by Aether
I would not go. My personal goals in life do not include killing another person and having somebody's casket on my soul is not the burden I want to live with. I refuse (and have already been asked) to use my education toward any type of military inclusion.

If it came down to it I would flee to another country to dodge it.


Just curious, do you actually believe that everyone who is drafted will be thrown into the front lines? Who do you think trains those people? Who fixes the machines that train those people? Who fixes the people when they're hurt? There's a lot more to the military than guns and killing.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 07:03 PM
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Arg. Another topic ruined by petty arguing. A mod may as well just lock this now.



posted on Nov, 29 2004 @ 07:05 PM
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hell yes i would ( why the hell do we have to fight someones else's war )
ps i'm 18 1/2



posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 01:30 AM
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What cracks me up everytime is how quickly cowards use Morality Clauses to convince themselves they're doing the right thing.

Excuses...nothing more than excuses...for running to protect your own worthless skin.

Do you think, for one second, that a Muslim radical wouldn't shoot you crossing the Canadian border JUST AS QUICKLY as they shot those kids in Russia? Or slammed those planes into our towers? Or Blew up busloads of Jews who's only crime was going to work??

Cowards, I got news for ya: They don't care that you're running from a draft!! All they care about is catching you off guard and unarmed. (That seems to be very important, since their targets are typically unwary civilians)

Get a clue! If you have to fight them at all...why NOT have a gun in your hands? (And all the ammo you can shoot!)



posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 07:04 AM
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Originally posted by RED DRAGON

Will you dodge the draft?

Don't turn this into a debate. But, if you are in the U.S.A or U.K and are male or female 18-26 years of age, post whether you will dodge the draft or not when it comes.


What makes any of you guys think there will be a draft in the UK?????
If this is what u think will happen in the Uk, then you have very little in the way of knowledge about the feelings of the UK populace towards this sort of thing. The UK public would would not stand for a draft on any terms and would riot arcross the country and capitol if Blair or any other politician tried it. US maybe, but were not the US lapdogs, only our politicians are.

Im age23 living in the Uk and I can tell you for a fact that if there was a draft, they would be lucky to get 10-20% of the demographic for this age range into service!!!! they would have to call in the army to physically detain and coerce our nations young men/women to do such a thing. there would not even be a civil war, because almost 75% of our nation do not agree with our troops still being in Iraq or the occupation of Iraq full stop.
I would forcefully object to a draft as there is no need, our country would not go this far just to support the warmongering Bush administration.



posted on Nov, 30 2004 @ 07:17 AM
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I'm also from the UK and I promise you there will be no draft here! Blair & Co are treading a very fine line as it is, the thought of there being a draft is laughable. It just won't happen.

I don't think there will be a draft in the US either. I'd put money on it



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