How can today's Republicans be both anti-government and pro-death penalty?

originally posted by: neo96
How can Republican haters be anti death penalty and support abortion ?

"Republican hater" label aside, I am anti-death penalty and I support personal freedom. I don't like abortion any more than the next person, but I don't want the government telling me what to do as regards my personal health. I thought you guys were against that as well...

a reply to: Benevolent Heretic

"Republican hater" label aside, I am anti-death penalty and I support personal freedom

What about the personal freedom that 'clump of cells' grows up to become ?

A living,breathing,thinking HUMAN BEING that DESERVES the same 'rights', and the same chances in life as it's mother, and father have had.

Government doesn't even need to brought in to that decision.

a reply to: sheepslayer247

You've never heard the cost argument?

Basing the average annual cost per inmate at $30,000 (2007) [1] and the estimated number of inmates serving life sentences at 160,000 (2012) [2], the average annual cost (paid for by taxpayers) is $5.12 BILLION for those inmates who could have potentially been executed.

Obviously this is rough estimation as not everyone serving life necessarily would have alternatively been executed, but the number is high.

The argument against saving billions of dollars is humanitarian. The anomalous scenario that is hard to argue against involves those who were wrongfully convicted, but that is an argument related to the trial process.

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
It makes perfect sense if you get out of your talking point that republicans are really "Anti-Government" They are "Anti- BIG Government." Republicans Understand we need a Government, in fact you'll find a lot of them say they want a strong Military, That's Government. They'll also state they want a strong Police Force and Fire Department, that's Government. They'll say they want Three Separate functioning branches, the Judiciary, executive and Legislative, that's all government.

So yes a majority of Republicans are anti BIG government, and a majority will probably support the death penalty as that goes in line with their sense of a strong police force and strong law enforcement.

It makes perfect sense.

Well said.

originally posted by: neo96
How can Republican haters be anti death penalty and support abortion ?
How can Republican hater be anti death penalty, and support the artificial means that END and PROHIBIT the creation of human life ?
IE contraception, and abortion piils.
How can Republican haters be anti death penalty, and support gun control legislation ?
Like ALL American politics it is always the pot calling the kettle.

So...20% of Republicans and 40% of independents oppose the death penalty.

Almost half of Democrats support the death penalty.
www.gallup.com...

A third of Republicans are Pro-Choice
www.gallup.com...

Your label of "Republican haters" fails reality.

Anything apart form political baiting to offer?

As far as you equating contraception or abortion with the death penalty...people who think those things should be available under appropriate circumstances support CHOICE...and do not consider sperm or unfertilized eggs as living humans...Nor do they believe that zygotes or fetus in the first trimester are living beings.

Now..you can debate that scientific/philosophical definition of living human being (Derail)...

But the only relevant component is that EVERYONE agrees that man or woman we strap to a chair and execute is an actual living human being.

originally posted by: BlackboxInquiry

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
It makes perfect sense if you get out of your talking point that republicans are really "Anti-Government" They are "Anti- BIG Government." Republicans Understand we need a Government, in fact you'll find a lot of them say they want a strong Military, That's Government. They'll also state they want a strong Police Force and Fire Department, that's Government. They'll say they want Three Separate functioning branches, the Judiciary, executive and Legislative, that's all government.

So yes a majority of Republicans are anti BIG government, and a majority will probably support the death penalty as that goes in line with their sense of a strong police force and strong law enforcement.

It makes perfect sense.

Well said.

Well said ?

If one were to IGNORE the largest expansions of government power over the last 70 years from Republican opposites.

Like Social Security,Medicare,Medicaid,Welfare,Federal Reserve, the 'affordable' care act, gun control, and other social engineering that accounts for the LARGEST EXPANSION of government this country has ever seen.

Then with their new delusions of grandeur have moved on to geo engineering trying to control the planet with that farce called global warming which is nothing more that EXPANDED government power to the likes this country has never seen.

Republicans opposites ARE NOT ANTI GOVERNMENT they make them evil righties look like amateurs.

Oh then they is the massive expansion of SPYING by the NSA in the last 6 years, and then there is the massive intrusion of Americans privacy vis a vis the ACA 'healthcare' data hub.

Ignore ALL that to be 'well said'.

a reply to: Indigo5

So...20% of Republicans and 40% of independents oppose the death penalty.

So what ?

The GD death penalty was around long before this country was ever founded.

By hey why let that thing called world history get in the way of pushing that demagogic bubble eh?

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
So yes a majority of Republicans are anti BIG government, and a majority will probably support the death penalty as that goes in line with their sense of a strong police force and strong law enforcement.

It makes perfect sense.

Put another way...A Majority of Republicans are for BIG Government...Military, Police...and I would argue "legislating values"..

Again the debate should not be Big vs. Small government...Not "size"...but rather "what" government has purview over.

Cuz both sides want MORE and LESS government dependent on ideology.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Indigo5

So...20% of Republicans and 40% of independents oppose the death penalty.

So what ?

So by your logic 20% of Republicans are "Republican Haters" by virtue of being opposed to the Death Penalty.

originally posted by: neo96
The GD death penalty was around long before this country was ever founded.

And?....Britain used to boil people?...Hell, we used to burn people for being witches?

a reply to: Indigo5

Put another way...A Majority of Republicans are for BIG Government...Military, Police...and I would argue "legislating values"..

So which one of them for over 70 years has continually tried to make it to only the cops, and the military are the only ones with guns there?

One could say Republican opposites are for BIGGER government, BIGGER POLICE, and uses the cops to 'police' the military like we saw with the cops running to the 'rescue' at the latest Fort Hood shooting.

a reply to: Indigo5

So by your logic 20% of Republicans are "Republican Haters" by virtue of being opposed to the Death Penalty.

The 'logic' here is that someone violates a law that was written before any of us were born.

They go to court, and a jury decides their fate.

The end.

originally posted by: neo96

originally posted by: BlackboxInquiry

originally posted by: PsychoEmperor
It makes perfect sense if you get out of your talking point that republicans are really "Anti-Government" They are "Anti- BIG Government." Republicans Understand we need a Government, in fact you'll find a lot of them say they want a strong Military, That's Government. They'll also state they want a strong Police Force and Fire Department, that's Government. They'll say they want Three Separate functioning branches, the Judiciary, executive and Legislative, that's all government.

So yes a majority of Republicans are anti BIG government, and a majority will probably support the death penalty as that goes in line with their sense of a strong police force and strong law enforcement.

It makes perfect sense.

I like you.

It was well said, I didn't say it was correct or I agreed..

You sir, I wanna chat with if you're game. Seem to have something that really resonates with my feelings on the matter. No joke.

Well said.

Well said ?

If one were to IGNORE the largest expansions of government power over the last 70 years from Republican opposites.

Like Social Security,Medicare,Medicaid,Welfare,Federal Reserve, the 'affordable' care act, gun control, and other social engineering that accounts for the LARGEST EXPANSION of government this country has ever seen.

Then with their new delusions of grandeur have moved on to geo engineering trying to control the planet with that farce called global warming which is nothing more that EXPANDED government power to the likes this country has never seen.

Republicans opposites ARE NOT ANTI GOVERNMENT they make them evil righties look like amateurs.

Oh then they is the massive expansion of SPYING by the NSA in the last 6 years, and then there is the massive intrusion of Americans privacy vis a vis the ACA 'healthcare' data hub.

Ignore ALL that to be 'well said'.

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: neo96
How can Republican haters be anti death penalty and support abortion ?
How can Republican hater be anti death penalty, and support the artificial means that END and PROHIBIT the creation of human life ?
IE contraception, and abortion piils.
How can Republican haters be anti death penalty, and support gun control legislation ?
Like ALL American politics it is always the pot calling the kettle.

So...20% of Republicans and 40% of independents oppose the death penalty.

Almost half of Democrats support the death penalty.
www.gallup.com...

A third of Republicans are Pro-Choice
www.gallup.com...

Your label of "Republican haters" fails reality.

Anything apart form political baiting to offer?

As far as you equating contraception or abortion with the death penalty...people who think those things should be available under appropriate circumstances support CHOICE...and do not consider sperm or unfertilized eggs as living humans...Nor do they believe that zygotes or fetus in the first trimester are living beings.

Now..you can debate that scientific/philosophical definition of living human being (Derail)...

But the only relevant component is that EVERYONE agrees that man or woman we strap to a chair and execute is an actual living human being.

You assume alot of stuff. I believe in contraception and Im pro choice before sex not after lazy unprotected sex.

As for those strapped to the chair,I dont consider them human, I consider them animals. The people they murdered are forgotten in your world. I consider the zygote and fetus more human than the animal we are putting down.

originally posted by: nfflhome

originally posted by: Indigo5

originally posted by: neo96
How can Republican haters be anti death penalty and support abortion ?
How can Republican hater be anti death penalty, and support the artificial means that END and PROHIBIT the creation of human life ?
IE contraception, and abortion piils.
How can Republican haters be anti death penalty, and support gun control legislation ?
Like ALL American politics it is always the pot calling the kettle.

So...20% of Republicans and 40% of independents oppose the death penalty.

Almost half of Democrats support the death penalty.
www.gallup.com...

A third of Republicans are Pro-Choice
www.gallup.com...

Your label of "Republican haters" fails reality.

Anything apart form political baiting to offer?

As far as you equating contraception or abortion with the death penalty...people who think those things should be available under appropriate circumstances support CHOICE...and do not consider sperm or unfertilized eggs as living humans...Nor do they believe that zygotes or fetus in the first trimester are living beings.

Now..you can debate that scientific/philosophical definition of living human being (Derail)...

But the only relevant component is that EVERYONE agrees that man or woman we strap to a chair and execute is an actual living human being.

You assume alot of stuff. I believe in contraception and Im pro choice before sex not after lazy unprotected sex.

As for those strapped to the chair,I dont consider them human, I consider them animals. The people they murdered are forgotten in your world. I consider the zygote and fetus more human than the animal we are putting down.

The only thing I assumed was that opposing the death penalty ≠ "Republican haters"

And I provided the statistics to prove the same.

And while your personal opinion of the humanity of those executed is just that ...whether or not that view warrants killing people is open to debate...

Statistics have repeatedly shown that 4-6% of those on death row are innocent...as we repeatedly learn as DNA evidence is introduced or new evidence emerges for the lucky few to be exonerated.

So a 4-6% error rate in government executions (equaling several hundred erroneous executions) is acceptable to many in the GOP, whilst a significantly less than 1% voter fraud rate warrants outrage and an overhauling of our voting system?

If killing these people was a deterrent or actually solved something aside from vengeance, I might feel differently...If it was my family as a victim...I most likely would feel very differently..

But objectively it looks like legislating vengeance and with an error rate that is unacceptable considering this is government killing it's citizens.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic


Don't tell me you are unaware of how many innocent people have been on death row and even executed...

I wonder how many guilty babies were aborted in the same time frame?

originally posted by: SLAYER69

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic


Don't tell me you are unaware of how many innocent people have been on death row and even executed...

I wonder how many guilty babies were aborted in the same time frame?

Zero? If derailing the thread to an abortion debate is all you have than why bother?

I'll admit getting to the thread late and only reading the first couple of posts . . . so, this may have been brought up and, if so, I apologize . . . but, . . .

Republicans are not "anti-government" . . . They just want "their" form of government. Usually, at least in modern America, a government that includes their chosen form of "god" worship.

Capital punishment is a good example, as is abortion, forcing non-believers (includes non-Judeo-Christian religions) to be subjected to their chosen rituals, criminalizing sex or drugs.

Whether the issue is education, health, criminal statutes, etc . . . Republicans want just as big of a government as the Dems . . . they just want their worldview front and center.

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: beezzer
Not if you feel that punishing the guilty is okay and punishing the innocent isn't.

Don't tell me you are unaware of how many innocent people have been on death row and even executed...

Not to speak for Beezer, but I'm pretty sure 100% of the aborted are innocent. The Death penalty may not be infallible, but to compare or even give the moral equivalence argument of the Death of people convicted by their peers of guilt to those yet to be born people is a stretch.

originally posted by: pavil
Not to speak for Beezer, but I'm pretty sure 100% of the aborted are innocent. The Death penalty may not be infallible,

Again...derailment ...It is exhausting...Debate the Iraq War...Yah, innocent people died, but Liberals kill babies all the time! Debate smoking in public...Yah..some people might get sick from second hand smoke, but liberals kill babies! Ad infinium...It is just nonsense to sit there and have nothing to contribute to the ACTUAL TOPIC, but instead shout about abortion...you do know there are a few hundred other threads on that specific topic?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic
Both major parties show plenty of hypocrisy, but the GOP wins, hands down.

Oh man ... that was funny.
No hun ... they are the same. Mirror images of each other.

The left has MSNBC. The right has FOX.
The left has Al Sharpton. The right has Sarah Palin.
The left has NY Times. The right has Wall Street Journal.
The left has Huffington Post. The right has Drudge.
The left has Obama claiming transparency, but telling lies about everything.
The right has Bush saying 'trust me' but also told lies about everything.
The left has Valarie Jarrett. The right has Carl Rove. Same/same.
The left has the race card. The right has the God (morality) card.

The left screams 'tolerance' but then is intolerant of anyone who doesn't agree with them.
The right screams dignified equal rights but then withholds marriage rights from homosexuals.

The left claims to care about children but then doesn't mind that black children are mass slaughtered in abortion to the point that many black leaders in this country call it black genocide.

The right claims to care about children but then doesn't do anything about the 1/5 of children go to school hungry.

The left fights big business but then expects big business to pick up the tab for entitlements.
The right claims to care for the poor but then wants big tax breaks for business.

The left says the defense budget is bloated and they want to cut it, but at the same time they don't care that it will put a lot of low education and lower income people on the street ... and that by weakening our military we won't be able to go on missions around the world like we did with Fukishima ...

The right says the defense budget should not be decreased, but at the same time it doesn't want to have to pay the taxes to keep it up.

Politicians in both the right and left wing are heavily invested in their particular business ventures and they skew legislation and politics toward their investments so they can get richer. Pelosi is seriously guilty of this ... as is Obama and Bush43 and Cheney. etc etc Same/Same.

The left says 'peace through tolerance' but invades Libya, bombs Iraq, bombs Pakistan, bombs Afghanistan and tries to invade Syria.

The right says 'peace through strength' but invades Iraq, bombs Pakistan, bombs Afghanistan and tries to invade Syria.

SAME/SAME