How can today's Republicans be both anti-government and pro-death penalty?

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

Given that you set a standard for us to use...

"One of the logical tests of a model is self-coherence. If a model has inner conflict or self conflict it can be described as incoherent. Incoherent means something is missing, extraneous or broken in the model."

...I question how valid it is for your argument. For example, if we turn that around and say liberal democrats believe that it is acceptable to kill unborn children, I ask you, does that make sense?

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
I've had conversations with people on this topic and have yet to find one person with a legitimate reason.

Well here in Canada, inmates cost a lot of money. About 60k a year, which is the amount of 7-8 people on welfare.

So yeah, here`s one for you. Death penalty saves money.
Legitimate or not, that`s subjective.

Me being on the fence on this subject, I can easily point out that saving money is a good reason.

Anyhow, there are a couple different things in the ops. here is my most valueable 2 cents.

Personally, I (as a white guy) am opposed to the death penalty.

The numbers you mention of course do suggest racism, but I think it actually is more revealing of black culture.
Black communities are still...a thing, and are almost always poor. poor culture is desperate culture, and crime will be higher just naturally.

Solutions?

a reply to: olaru12

It goes both ways. I don't see Obama doing anything helpful. If you say Obamacare, I'll just laugh at you.

I'm not a Rep or a Dem. I see both sides just as corrupt. It's funny though... When debating the two, all I see is that the Rep is the big bad guy, yet not a word on the Dems, even though most of the people here hate Obama. It's almost as if many of you guys don't even believe Obama is a Dem.


Now THAT I don't understand.

a reply to: theMediator

Considering the many years it takes to appeal a death sentence, the lawyers needed to represent the guilty and the resources needed to maintain the court/legal system....I would question just how much money is saved.

In fact, the case could be made that the death penalty adds to the big-government bureaucracy.

originally posted by: SaturnFX
The numbers you mention of course do suggest racism, but I think it actually is more revealing of black culture.
Black communities are still...a thing, and are almost always poor. poor culture is desperate culture, and crime will be higher just naturally.

Solutions?

I find a lot of the mainstream black culture so sad. Promoting gangsterism, sexism, disrespect, gang wars...

People want to fit in their culture and everyone in their lives did a thing or that they knew was bad, only to get approval and respect from siblings and the gang. I`ve heard a couple times that 'acting like a white kid' is bad when you are black.

It`s quite sad, when I was young I had a couple black friends when I use to live in a black neighborhood and I remember noticing their parents didn't seem to appreciate me much...

The TPTB like it that way, keeping us divided. But I know we are all of same blood and we are all brothers on this planet, let`s see past the illusions!

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
I think a better question to ask is how can someone be pro-life...and pro-death penalty.

Some people might say the unthinkable.

Unborn children haven't committed any "death penalty" crimes yet.

Convicted murderers have.

I have personally been a fan of letting people rot in prison. Death is too easy for people, but being locked away NEVER to be a FREE person that is torture.

originally posted by: theMediator
So yeah, here`s one for you. Death penalty saves money.

So, keep the serious criminals in jail and decriminaliize the lesser offenses that are filling up our jails. Killing suspected criminals (and sometimes innocent people) is not, in my opinion, a good enough answer to the cost of incarceration.

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: theMediator

Considering the many years it takes to appeal a death sentence, the lawyers needed to represent the guilty and the resources needed to maintain the court/legal system....I would question just how much money is saved.

In fact, the case could be made that the death penalty adds to the big-government bureaucracy.

Heh, well that`s another problem...the legal system is a total waste of time because people are paid by the hour.
Imagine how fast the legal system would work if they had fixed salaries for particular tasks...

But of course, the legal system is corrupted to the core, controlled by money and the mob.

We have a loooot of cleaning up to do.

a reply to: Watcher777

I find it interesting that you start your topic about Republicans and then by the end you have changed it to "white people". Not ALL Republicans are white, not all Dems are anti-death penalty. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Valid point. In my view, the GOP and self-identifying as "white" while not absolutes, are so strongly correlated as to be considered de facto. Dealing in absolutes isn't my style or purpose of the OP.

a reply to: xuenchen

And what if they were innocent?

We hear all too often how someone was put to death and 20+ years later we find out that they were innocent. Executing one innocent man is enough for me to not support it.

Also, if we are going to hold the position that life is precious and should be protected, shouldn't that apply to criminals as well as children?

a reply to: InverseLookingGlass

How can they be pro-life and pro-death penalty. They are insane, that's how.

a reply to: xuenchen

Once born they may commit the "thought crime" of being hungry, sick, lazy, being liberal or worse --questioning capitalsm. What then?

originally posted by: Benevolent Heretic

originally posted by: theMediator
So yeah, here`s one for you. Death penalty saves money.

So, keep the serious criminals in jail and decriminaliize the lesser offenses that are filling up our jails. Killing suspected criminals (and sometimes innocent people) is not, in my opinion, a good enough answer to the cost of incarceration.

Well, I bet we would decriminalize drum usage if prison weren't profitable...mainly, those people need help, not prison.

Yeah, I`m on the fence for death penalty... one of the only situations where I seem it worthy is crime against children or women. Emotionally, I would enforce years of torture before death penalty but to me, it sounds savage compared to death penalty.

Don`t get me wrong, death penalty is quite savage too.

a reply to: PsychoEmperor

We would need to parse out what "Republicans" means...Traditional Republicans (RHINOs) ..Libertarians (Government small enough to drown in the bathtub)...TP?

So yes there appears a hypocrisy in some positions..

Not just death penalty, but also gay marriage, creationism in schools, abortion etc. etc.

Here is the deal...GOP want "Big Government" when it suits their ideology and small government when it doesn't.

Thus governments big growth during 8 years of Pres. GWB.

And here is the other truth...Dems are no different.

If we can sort that out, we will be in a better place, both Dems and Repubs...a strong, efficient government, no bigger, nor smaller than it needs to be and directed by the people.

Not a vehicle for forced expansion of a given ideology. In that context...supporting or opposing gay marriage is an irrelevant debate in government...whatever the opinions of politicians, it's not their place to legislate it.

On the death penalty...well it is another emotional issue masquerading as a Political issue.

As individuals we all want vengeance..

The 4 countries that execute the most of their own citizens...
Iran
Saudi Arabia
China
USA

I would argue any list that includes those 3 other nations is a list we do not want to be on.

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
a reply to: xuenchen

And what if they were innocent?

We hear all too often how someone was put to death and 20+ years later we find out that they were innocent. Executing one innocent man is enough for me to not support it.

Also, if we are going to hold the position that life is precious and should be protected, shouldn't that apply to criminals as well as children?

Yes.

All forms of killing is no good.

originally posted by: InverseLookingGlass
a reply to: xuenchen

Once born they may commit the "thought crime" of being hungry, sick, lazy, being liberal or worse --questioning capitalsm. What then?

LOL

To each his own.

I am 100% individualist.

The only justification for murder is self defense.

How can Republican haters be anti death penalty and support abortion ?

How can Republican hater be anti death penalty, and support the artificial means that END and PROHIBIT the creation of human life ?

IE contraception, and abortion piils.

How can Republican haters be anti death penalty, and support gun control legislation ?

Like ALL American politics it is always the pot calling the kettle.

originally posted by: Indigo5
Here is the deal...GOP want "Big Government" when it suits their ideology and small government when it doesn't.

Thus governments big growth during 8 years of Pres. GWB.

And here is the other truth...Dems are no different.
...
The 4 countries that execute the most of their own citizens...
Iran
Saudi Arabia
China
USA

I would argue any list that includes those 3 other nations is a list we do not want to be on.

Excellent points! Agree 100%!

Democrats and Republicans? Neither one a group I'd belong to.