U.S. businesses are being destroyed faster than they’re being created

originally posted by: DrinkMoreWater
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

You are not looking at the big picture.

This is not about power. Power will almost always end up in the wrong hands anyways. That is the nature of this fallen world.

This is about human minds and free will.

The real battle is not physical, economic, or political. It is a battle to preserve free will in the human mind, for us - the people. For the ruling class, it is to control the human mind.

Don`t be getting all spiritual on me now! I am an engineer and physicist, I am not an animal - elephant man quip. Just don`t get me started on free will, because I will bitch-slap that premise into oblivion and then I will end up hijacking my own thread LOL. I will start another thread later to explain how this virtual reality works ;-) I may even provide the proofs that there is a system outside of this system of reality by examining the propagation of gravity waves by temporal proxy.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

If you do not respect each individual's sovereign mind and their right to free will, you are a part of the problem.

If you would debate the mere existence of free will, you are a part of the problem.

originally posted by: DrinkMoreWater
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

If you do not respect each individual's sovereign mind and their right to free will, you are a part of the problem.

If you would debate the mere existence of free will, you are a part of the problem.

Everyone has a right to their opinion and I will never argue that ;-) I am talking about scientific fact being produced through experimentation and empirical data. I don`t see how trying to understand the truth of our reality is somehow linked to me being part of the problem.

I would rather know that I am a slave and try and fix the problem, rather than believe I am a free man when I am not. In my case, where I recognize the closed system which has a predetermined path, it is difficult to rationalize free will. Possibly our definitions of free will are different?

My definition is rather strict, in that any decision I make can be influenced by any number of events which are not of my own choosing, eg. gamma ray interference, RF interference, covalence and other forms of atomic interactions dealing in quantum reality, etc. I see having free will as an entity, to be the absolute control over all constituent parts of my being, brain included, right down to at least the quantum reality level, so that there can be no outside interference from any source that might change electrochemical reactions in synapses starting at a sub-atomic level of basic interference.

By using this approach I find that we do not have free will in the strictest sense which then begs the question, what are we?

Is my wanting to fix the broken system an illusion of free will where I am simply observing my own pre-programmed actions with no control or am I actually consciously deciding to take specific moves towards an end goal? In a selfish kind of way, I`d like to think I was clever enough to do this, but on the other hand, my understanding of reality precludes my having an original thought. It is an ego destroying conundrum ;-)

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
...I don`t see how trying to understand the truth of our reality is somehow linked to me being part of the problem.

I would rather know that I am a slave and try and fix the problem, rather than believe I am a free man when I am not. In my case, where I recognize the closed system which has a predetermined path, it is difficult to rationalize free will. Possibly our definitions of free will are different?

...

Excellent post!
I only cut it down to save...cyber ink & space

I have not side-stepped your former reply - am just muddling through thoughts on what (if any) response might be appropriate.

As you stated - the notion of free will (and what part/s we might play in the same) presents a conundrum, not easily handled without ignoring the enigma that surrounds us.
Looking forward to your thread/thoughts on the same.

If you remember - please notify me when it is posted.
Thanks.

a reply to: DrinkMoreWater

You really are naive. Capitalism IS a problem. Hey, I don't blame you. You got your education from a capitalist, you sound just like a good little puppet.

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle

Actually to paraphrase Einstein, `Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different result.`

Whoever said I was quoting or paraphrasing Einstein? Sure, I adapted the definition of stupidity from Einstein, but stupid is anyone who makes less than $250,000 a year.

It`s actually predatory capitalism,

No, it's capitalism.

it has nothing to do with a free market system,

Free is the euphemism for enslave. You better study your euphemisms more carefully.

Pop quiz: Under capitalism, what's the euphemism for the right to pollute?

everything is controlled and outcomes are always steered to produce a singular flow in the direction of capital/value, always towards the richest in society.

And that is called capitalism. So you just proved my point that the problem is capitalism... Job well done.

originally posted by: iosolomon

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle

Actually to paraphrase Einstein, `Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different result.`

Whoever said I was quoting or paraphrasing Einstein? Sure, I adapted the definition of stupidity from Einstein, but stupid is anyone who makes less than $250,000 a year.

It`s actually predatory capitalism,

No, it's capitalism.

it has nothing to do with a free market system,

Free is the euphemism for enslave. You better study your euphemisms more carefully.

Pop quiz: Under capitalism, what's the euphemism for the right to pollute?

everything is controlled and outcomes are always steered to produce a singular flow in the direction of capital/value, always towards the richest in society.

And that is called capitalism. So you just proved my point that the problem is capitalism... Job well done.

I would disagree, capitalism still requires a rules base that puts everyone at equal opportunity, which may or may not be the myth. Predatory capitalism is a situation where the market is skewed to give the predators an unfair advantage, it`s an inversion of a common sense premise, much like everything else in society.

The pop quiz answer - maybe trading carbon and pollution credits LOL. I used to see this a lot when I was regional engineer for canada for a large analytical instrumentation firm (that was mouthful). Companies like BP, Sohio, Ontario Hydro, Exxon, (I have a huge list) etc. would trade their pollution burdens with smaller firms for cash, equipment, etc. There wasn`t any less pollution, it was just traded around to give the appearance of less pollution. It all comes down to smoke and mirrors, not an equitable solution at all.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: WanDash

Someone was arguing that free will existed, so I wrote a response here at Above Top Secret.

In any legal endeavor one looks for the burden of proof, the actual evidence that something happened or did not, this cannot be done with free will. There is no definitive ruler that can be applied to determine whether you decided to do something or not. But in the alternative, all one need do is examine the available patterns of interference that can effect the brain`s synapses and neurons at a cellular level. One can`t say interaction cannot happen and won`t effect decisions and judgement unless one can prove the interference does not produce altered decisions and judgement. It is a known fact that even simple things like magnetic interference, spurious gamma rays and RF/EMF can cause changes in behavior and chemistry, we won`t even get into narcotics and psychotropics. That on it`s own negates free will as an absolute.

If you take this from a thought experiment point as outlined in that link above, what you have is the establishment of a linear predictive system (something I work with in AI applications). Society can`t have it both ways, you can`t have a predictable reality and free will in the same virtual reality construct, however, in an unpredictable reality you must have free will. So the question becomes, can this be a predictable reality and the answer is resoundingly, yes. Therefore, since reality is predictable inside the construct and it doesn`t matter what the observers frame of reference is, be it inside or outside the construct, there is no free will inside the construct.

Back to our problems with small business destruction, it becomes a situation that is predictable within the construct. Every subsequent action that occurs in relation to any event within the construct, negative or positive in relation to our subjective view of existence, would also be a predictable action. We are riders on meat puppet buses, do what you think you are doing, look at the scenery and enjoy the ride ;-)

God, the Creator, Cosmic Muffin, Flying Spaghetti Monster, etc. is a programmer and he has a great sense of humour!

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

I would disagree, capitalism still requires a rules base that puts everyone at equal opportunity

Sure, if everyone could receive the same education and had the same intelligence level. Capitalism is skewed to give those who are "mentally" stronger an advantage over those who are weaker. It's wrong. It is damn wrong. And anyone who disagrees is simply a fool.

The problem with capitalism is that it is unchecked. Simply put a wealth cap at $10 million. Economy fixed. Poverty vanishes along with crime. If Bill Gates doesn't want to work because he can't rob We the People, then someone else who isn't greedy will step in to do whatever he does for him. We do not need to offer anyone more than a $10 million cap wealth for society to function. In fact, $10 million is the value our government places on human life when it comes to statistical calculations, so why should a single human get to "own" more than one life is worth?

If you feel that someone deserves more than $10 million, then you have to concede that you support greed.

Oh, for the pop quiz, the Americans call it "economic freedom." Yup, right to pollute is economic freedom.

Isn't it funny that how anything that is unconstitutional always has the words "free" or "patriot" or such in it?

originally posted by: iosolomon
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

I would disagree, capitalism still requires a rules base that puts everyone at equal opportunity

Sure, if everyone could receive the same education and had the same intelligence level. Capitalism is skewed to give those who are "mentally" stronger an advantage over those who are weaker. It's wrong. It is damn wrong. And anyone who disagrees is simply a fool.

The problem with capitalism is that it is unchecked. Simply put a wealth cap at $10 million. Economy fixed. Poverty vanishes along with crime. If Bill Gates doesn't want to work because he can't rob We the People, then someone else who isn't greedy will step in to do whatever he does for him. We do not need to offer anyone more than a $10 million cap wealth for society to function. In fact, $10 million is the value our government places on human life when it comes to statistical calculations, so why should a single human get to "own" more than one life is worth?

If you feel that someone deserves more than $10 million, then you have to concede that you support greed.

Oh, for the pop quiz, the Americans call it "economic freedom." Yup, right to pollute is economic freedom.

Isn't it funny that how anything that is unconstitutional always has the words "free" or "patriot" or such in it?

So you equate education with criminal activity? The banks, government and wall street are running unethical, immoral and illegal frauds by the minute.

I do agree with capping somewhat, I mean seriously, in a zero inflation society, say at 1980 economic standards, you would never need more than $10 million unless you add in psychopathy, greed and avarice.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

I do agree with capping somewhat

I'll take somewhat! Starting a 10 million might be too low and too soon, but the point is that if the lowest paid employee is only making $7 then the highest paid employee should perhaps make no more than 30 times that amount. In this case, $210 an hour.

So you equate education with criminal activity? The banks, government and wall street are running unethical, immoral and illegal frauds by the minute.

I did not equate education with criminal activity, but I won't argue against that. One of the reasons society has education is because a better education has been correlated with lower crime rates.

I was equating lack of money and opportunity to succeed with criminal activity.

I am glad that you have similar economic views as I do. I wanted to make sure someone was on the same page before I related it back to the article. Businesses are being destroyed faster than they are being created because of capitalism. As Karl Marx predicted, capitalism would suck up all the wealth in a small, but powerful, oligarchy --which is what we have today-- and would destroy the middle class --which is also what we have today.

Marxist economics would be a good system IFF the middle and poor class used it to keep the rich class in-check (which would be the same thing as placing a wealth cap or maximum wage).

But take a look at google buying up all the robotics firms. How many are they at now? Eight...nine? This is actually hurting our economy and We the People so much more than capitalism is helping. We want more businesses. Economics is correct to teach that many businesses are good for society as a whole. But when they all get absorbed into the hands of a few corporations, that's not good.

The elimination of the agrarian class, the decimation of the manufacturing class, and the outsourcing of the educated class are all serious problems. Not to mention, thanks to capitalism, we are producing more businessmen and women than we are doctors, researchers, and engineers.

More doctors = lower health care costs
More researchers = more cures for disease
More engineers = more advancements for society

Nope, under capitalism, we cannot achieve any of those common goals. America bless you!

originally posted by: iosolomon...thanks to capitalism, we are producing more businessmen and women than we are doctors, researchers, and engineers.

...

That's kind of a misnomer, imo...
More doctors, researchers, engineers, lawyers, etc...have chosen those fields because of the greater chance that capitalism will fill their pockets with gold, and give them a shot at the limelight, than would have chosen them if 'all things were equal'.
The topic of this thread regarded the drastic decline in small businesses over the last decade/s ... Do you have other data &/or statistics showing otherwise?

originally posted by: iosolomon
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

I do agree with capping somewhat

I'll take somewhat! Starting a 10 million might be too low and too soon, but the point is that if the lowest paid employee is only making $7 then the highest paid employee should perhaps make no more than 30 times that amount. In this case, $210 an hour.

So you equate education with criminal activity? The banks, government and wall street are running unethical, immoral and illegal frauds by the minute.

I did not equate education with criminal activity, but I won't argue against that. One of the reasons society has education is because a better education has been correlated with lower crime rates.

I was equating lack of money and opportunity to succeed with criminal activity.

I am glad that you have similar economic views as I do. I wanted to make sure someone was on the same page before I related it back to the article. Businesses are being destroyed faster than they are being created because of capitalism. As Karl Marx predicted, capitalism would suck up all the wealth in a small, but powerful, oligarchy --which is what we have today-- and would destroy the middle class --which is also what we have today.

Marxist economics would be a good system IFF the middle and poor class used it to keep the rich class in-check (which would be the same thing as placing a wealth cap or maximum wage).

But take a look at google buying up all the robotics firms. How many are they at now? Eight...nine? This is actually hurting our economy and We the People so much more than capitalism is helping. We want more businesses. Economics is correct to teach that many businesses are good for society as a whole. But when they all get absorbed into the hands of a few corporations, that's not good.

The elimination of the agrarian class, the decimation of the manufacturing class, and the outsourcing of the educated class are all serious problems. Not to mention, thanks to capitalism, we are producing more businessmen and women than we are doctors, researchers, and engineers.

More doctors = lower health care costs
More researchers = more cures for disease
More engineers = more advancements for society

Nope, under capitalism, we cannot achieve any of those common goals. America bless you!

We are basically on the same page, I can see a viable cap being used to limit greed.

It would seem better education may be correlated with lower crime rates in the general population, but the unchallenged crime occurring in wall street, the government and through international bankers is much higher by orders of magnitude.

Any form of Communism, meaning Communism proper, Marxism, Leninism, Socialism, etc., does have it`s own inherent problems including an acceleration towards a totalitarian state or dictatorship. In the alternate, predatory capitalism or directional wealth redistribution via corporatism and oligarchies, feudal or corporate, tend to end in a dictatorship cum fascist regime or a totalitarian state. In both cases, this is due to the government and/or corporations steering wealth away from the taxpayer/citizen and into the pockets of dictators, oligarchs and corporations. And the only real difference between a failed communist experiment and a failed predatory capitalist experiment is that in the failed communist experiment, people are not held to the illusion that voting or anything they say will change the way the system operates.

Your point concerning the purchase and amalgamation of companies is well taken and I agree, monopolization destroys competition and increases prices to the end consumer. This can especially be seen in the banking sector since the inception of central banks in 1933/34. The controllers of the central banks have a monopoly on currency and interest rate fixing and there have been many scandals. Since each central bank reports to the BIS or other entity and they are all basically under the same monopoly, they tend to protect each other and circumvent laws, drug money, arms deals and blood diamond laundering comes to mind as well as hiding the profits from other, even more vile corporate interests such as the sex and child trafficking trades.

Don`t forget more charities and foundations to steer illegal gains. One of the biggest scams going is steering the profits from crime through what appear to be charitable organizations. It makes it very easy to launder money.

You are right, under capitalism we will not achieve our goals, but there is even less chance under any system of communism. The US would be just fine if the government operated by the word of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence, but the executive branch has been usurped by a series of traitors, along with the senate and congress, and the citizens have allowed this to happen, either by neglect, maintenance of lifestyle or avarice. I have to say the same thing about Canada, the lot of them in parliament are corrupt and need to be tried for treason.

It all comes back to that very simple question, how does one invoke positive change to produce some kind of equitable society? We all have our ideas, but we have to put them into play.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: iosolomon
a reply to: DrinkMoreWater

You really are naive. Capitalism IS a problem. Hey, I don't blame you. You got your education from a capitalist, you sound just like a good little puppet.

You are the puppet. What you still have no realized is that you are a puppet for those who have taken the morally correct economic system of capitalism and corrupted it. You think you are smart, but don't even understand the game being played.

I think part of these numbers may not show the real truth. People with great ideas , ready or in the process of hanging a shingle get approached, bought out and/or absorbed by larger business at an ever increasing rate. I bet it is not reported that way many times.

a reply to: WanDash

More doctors, researchers, engineers, lawyers, etc...have chosen those fields because of the greater chance that capitalism will fill their pockets with gold,

I am glad you take such a cynical view on humanity. Why to discount all the doctors, researchers, and lawyers who have chosen those fields for the greater good.

The topic of this thread regarded the drastic decline in small businesses over the last decade/s ... Do you have other data &/or statistics showing otherwise?

Yes, and the shortcomings of capitalism is that very reason we are seeing such a decline.

than would have chosen them if 'all things were equal'.

You're using equivocation with "equality." I don't think anyone will disagree that a doctor deserves higher compensation than a gardener. However, how much of a difference should that really be?

The reason why small businesses are disappearing is because, as Marx correctly predicted (which wasn't much of a predication when capitalism teaches us that 1+1=3), that capitalism will destroy the middle class (along with small businesses).

For data and statistics to show otherwise, take a look at Benjamin Franklin's bequeath to Philadelphia. Small businesses were able to take out a risk-free loan, and only repay it back if they became successful. How many people would like to start their own business right now, but can't, because they don't want to become indebted to Big Bank (yet another corporation that is robbing We the People and eradicating the middle class).

Don't tell me that most ALL Americans are greedy scum. You would be wrong.

originally posted by: DrinkMoreWater

originally posted by: iosolomon
a reply to: DrinkMoreWater

You really are naive. Capitalism IS a problem. Hey, I don't blame you. You got your education from a capitalist, you sound just like a good little puppet.

You are the puppet. What you still have no realized is that you are a puppet for those who have taken the morally correct economic system of capitalism and corrupted it. You think you are smart, but don't even understand the game being played.

Capitalism is EVIL. the world worked under pure capitalism for centuries.

What was the result? --> SLAVERY, Kings and peasants.

a reply to: DrinkMoreWater

You think you are smart, but don't even understand the game being played.

Oh. I understand the game being played. Billions of People have been tricked into agreeing to slavery, and like Harriet Tubman once said, "I would set you free if only you realize you are slaves." The game is the aristocrats have tricked you into voluntary enslavement, and you refuse to see it. And now, I, who wish to set you all free, am unable to do so because you do not say that you are slaves.

That is capitalism.

morally correct economic system of capitalism

Capitalism was never morally correct. It was designed by the rich. Do you understand that? Benjamin Franklin did not design capitalism. The rich did. Benjamin Franklin was a morally correct character, but Thomas Jefferson and Adam Smith were not. Let there be no mistake. They were not morally correct. And an immoral character cannot design a moral system, (or in Thomas Jefferson's case, if they do design something morally correct, they instantly corrupt it; but capitalism was NEVER morally correct).

you think you are smart,

I now know the rough level of intelligence of the person who I am speaking to. Great! I surely wasted my time replying to you, but at least, I hope I can inspire others.

This country called America is all wrong. It needs fixing.

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle

but the unchallenged crime occurring in wall street, the government and through international bankers is much higher by orders of magnitude.

lol it's not criminal if the rich do it.

Any form of Communism,

I don't see anything wrong with Communism, but to be technical, it would be "reverse" Communism. It would work like this: "A government of the People, by the People, for the People" would control the resource of the wealth of society.

The problem with Communism, as I pointed out, is that it has been used by the rich and the elite to control the middle class and poor class. In other words, 1% of the People control country. If we used Communism, how it was intended, the 99% using it to control the 1%, then it would be a very successful system.

The US would be just fine if the government operated by the word of the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence

Especially the Declaration of Independence. I actually gave a speech for a class on why the Declaration of Independence should supercede the Constitution. But "reverse" Communism would be in-keeping with the Declaration of Independence.

(But there might be some confusion with what I mean by Communism. I am not saying that a doctor should get paid the same as a gardener, that would fail within no time, and capitalism would be the superior system. I am merely saying that money IS imaginary. Money is OUR time. Why should we give up our life for the aristocrats? Society, "We the People," should control our own time. A government of the People, by the People, for the People.)

It all comes back to that very simple question, how does one invoke positive change to produce some kind of equitable society?

We write a new Declaration of Independence. All we do is replace "Great Britain" with the "United States of America." And to make it clear that ALL "men'" are created equal, we will replace that with "humans." And budda-bang, we have just formed "The United States of America." I don't care what Obama wants to call this country, but this is NOT the United States of America.

And for our Constitution, we will use the Constitution that we already have. As Abraham Lincoln said, "The people of these United States are the rightful masters of both congresses and courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

But meanwhile, we will continue playing by the rules of capitalism, and when the 48th recession (or worse, depression) happens, we will all wonder why...

originally posted by: iosolomon
...I am glad you take such a cynical view on humanity. Why to discount all the doctors, researchers, and lawyers who have chosen those fields for the greater good.

I will address no more of your reply to my post than this...
Since you have chosen to "inject your own words" into my statement, and call them mine, I count no more of your statements worth consideration, review or comment.
You call yourself (the reincarnation/s of) God, Jesus, Solomon, etc... ?
Can't even deal honorably with another (mere) human...?
I did not discount "ALL" doctors, researchers & lawyers (or engineers, archaeologists, psychologists, factory workers, entrepreneurs, fast-food workers, etc...), and nothing in my statement implied such a sentiment.
Who would be 'cynical about humanity'... more ...than one who falsely accuses others of thoughts, intents and words...to deceitfully further an argument?