U.S. businesses are being destroyed faster than they’re being created

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

The real battle is not fought over land, resources, or even political power. It is fought over, and in, the human mind. Our government does not need to be replaced with a new form of government, because every form of government can be manipulated - especially a full on Democracy (which is the only thing better than a Democratic Republic, AKA polyarchy, anyways).

Psychological subversion of free will is your enemy; not those who are perpetrating it. They are just playing a part in a game that was not even designed by them. They are not the enemy. It is the ideology that is the enemy. It is not about capitalism, communism, or any other economic or political ideology. It is about psychological manipulation. Is psychological manipulation of Americans (without their consent, mind you) an acceptable standard or not? If not, how do you put an end to it?

Put an end to that, and fiat currency will soon fall anyways.

originally posted by: DrinkMoreWater
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

The real battle is not fought over land, resources, or even political power. It is fought over, and in, the human mind. Our government does not need to be replaced with a new form of government, because every form of government can be manipulated - especially a full on Democracy (which is the only thing better than a Democratic Republic, AKA polyarchy, anyways).

Psychological subversion of free will is your enemy; not those who are perpetrating it. They are just playing a part in a game that was not even designed by them. They are not the enemy. It is the ideology that is the enemy. It is not about capitalism, communism, or any other economic or political ideology. It is about psychological manipulation. Is psychological manipulation of Americans (without their consent, mind you) an acceptable standard or not? If not, how do you put an end to it?

Put an end to that, and fiat currency will soon fall anyways.

I agree and was not suggesting a `new form`of government, just a new government with new rules concerning its behavior and it legislated power. You are correct concerning`hearts and minds,` it is the crux of the situation. The problem there however is the mass media manipulation of information. Corporations control the governments and all the mass media outlets through extortion and exploitation, actually the entire planet is controlled in that manner. The mass media problem is a big one and changes to the net neutrality rules will begin the demise of the internet as a medium in which to freely share information. You mentioned democracy as being better than a full on Democratic Republic, I would beg to differ there as democracies tend to fail into a vacuum at which time a dictator rises to fill said vacuum and they are not generally benevolent. A democratic republic can suffer from the same fate as more socialism is injected into the republic, eventually it turns into a democracy and then fails again to a dictatorship. Personally, I prefer a true republic based on libertarian philosophies with extreme limits on government power. The most base rule is that, `My rights end where yours begin and visa vie.`

So apart from giving lectures every weekend to 200 to 300 people in order to get the reality of our collective situation out, I don`t see a viable solution as time is running out on the internet.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

I must say, for someone so against the corruption being perpetuated by the ruling class - your political ideology sure is supportive of it. A full blown Republic?

Personally, I have a problem with polyarchy. I have no problem with people acquiring large sums of worthless currency. I have a problem with currency holding power over the minds of the masses.

Regardless of political ideology, which we already agree that this is not really about, there IS a solution for the secular world, which I already outlined earlier in the thread.

Take the professors who teach future perception management people, PR people, psy ops soldiers, and other professional manipulators HOW to do what they do - and have them write coursework for 7th grade and up. Let them know that the intention is to make the American masses highly resilient to psychological manipulation. Then bug the heck out of the boards of education in each state to implement it. It won't happen, though. Obviously, I am probably not the first person to think of this.

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
...Apart from a military option, the only good option left is starving the beast while exercising the hell out of it. Unfortunately, one has to cut off the corrupt government`s source of power and that lays in banks, money, networking and economies, but it requires a concerted effort by almost everyone in the nation. Hypothetically;

Everyone has to be informed/educated in how the government works, first they have to become politically intelligent
Stop paying all taxes personally, but must include retailers and manufacturers, if they pay taxes boycott them
Flood the government with legal requests like FOIA requests, send the $5 fiat for each request and make them dance
Barter where possible rather than using fiat currency
Demand audits of ALL government departments by third parties and clarification of ALL treaties
Request the rescinding of ALL Bills over the last 10 to 20 years, in writing
Demand Transparency and Personal Responsibility/Liability from all politicians, in writing
Demand ALL of the present politicians step down or resign, in writing
Demand the removal of Lobbyists and Rotating Door policies between government and industry, in writing
Question ALL presumed authority every chance you get, both verbally and in writing

...

(Whittled it down a bit for brevity's sake.)
Sincere thanks for taking the time and investing such thought into your response.
There was no 'baiting' involved, aside from seeing whether anyone complaining (myself & yourself included) thinks that this travesty is worth setting comfort aside, and developing/enacting a plan that might turn the tide.

In today's increasing police state environment, aside from a coup (as illustrated in an earlier portion of your response), I see very few options that would not be 'shut down' with quick and overwhelming force applied by the applicable government/s (and their bastard agencies).
I, however, do see possibilities that would disrupt...to the point of 'crippling'...a number of the major players in this global-monopolizing scheme.
Might be ill advised to spell-out such an idea, however, in the absence of greater interest/passion expressed by more members of the forum.
So...

Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.

a reply to: WanDash

The "police state" is not a serious problem wrt this topic (yet, although it could easily evolve into one). Police are people. The problem is that people can not organize any REAL grassroots movement given the climate. Everything is astroturf, and this is, for the most part, because the masses are unaware of WHY they (the ruling class) would want to do things like spark Occupy or the Tea Party. The masses are thoroughly oblivious to the most basic forms of thought control and psychological manipulation.

originally posted by: DrinkMoreWater
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

I must say, for someone so against the corruption being perpetuated by the ruling class - your political ideology sure is supportive of it. A full blown Republic?

Personally, I have a problem with polyarchy. I have no problem with people acquiring large sums of worthless currency. I have a problem with currency holding power over the minds of the masses.

Regardless of political ideology, which we already agree that this is not really about, there IS a solution for the secular world, which I already outlined earlier in the thread.

Take the professors who teach future perception management people, PR people, psy ops soldiers, and other professional manipulators HOW to do what they do - and have them write coursework for 7th grade and up. Let them know that the intention is to make the American masses highly resilient to psychological manipulation. Then bug the heck out of the boards of education in each state to implement it. It won't happen, though. Obviously, I am probably not the first person to think of this.

It`s a great idea but I can tell you that in places like Queen`s University they are training municipal managers to operate as CAO`s under the Agenda 21 mandate being promoted by the AMO which is in turn controlled by ECLEI which is in turn a UN based NGO, so they have that game almost wrapped up at the university level. The UN is operating from a both top down (treaty) and bottom up (education) stance.

Educational systems are not about education, they are about indoctrination. They do not teach critical thinking, they teach expert and authority dependence. The educational institutions are all incrementally controlled, especially higher learning in universities and colleges. If you want tenure and a good life or you need grants, you WILL tow the party line, otherwise you will receive nothing. It all comes back to exploitation and extortion in the way our present society is managed. I know PhD`s in chemistry filling shelves in drug stores, architects and engineers working in Walmart, it`s a sad situation.

Cheers - Dave

The government is regulating and legislating small business into the cemetery. New small business gets strangled. Old small business dies off. This isn't how America is supposed to be at all.

originally posted by: DrinkMoreWater
...Actually, there is a way to fix this country. Take the psychology professors who are teaching future perception management people, psy ops soldiers, and PR people to manipulate people - and have them write up course work for 7th grade and up - then present it to the board of education in each state, each year, until they do something.

...

Thanks for your thoughts, DrinkMoreWater
While I find nothing specific that is disagreeable in the quoted proposition, it does seem 'out of reach'.
Does not seem that it could be practically or effectually applied or implemented until the current paradigm has been fractured, or, at least, significantly weakened.

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

Which is why if you could just get the board of educations to approve the coursework, you would have kids who are:

1. Entering a rebellious stage in life
2. Having some of their brains' permanent wiring develop
3. Learning about all of the tricks that are CURRENTLY, at THAT stage in their life, being used on them all day every day and even more so than adults.

From a patriot's perspective, this would put our kids (American kids) at a HUGE, HUGE advantage in the world. From a globalists perspective, it would put a serious dent in the future systems of control.

So for the patriot, it is a great idea.

For the globalist, it is a threatening idea.

I don't know about you, but my family has shed blood and had blood shed for this country. I don't want to see it hi-jacked by a bunch of pretentious rich idiots. You said you served. What has happened in recent decades in the military has been tragic. Rich people getting kid's penises blown off because they were too cheap to get MRAPs and felt like creating an insurgency to destabilize a region. This has all gotten far out of hand. This America is not the America my family taught me about when I was growing up.


See, it's not money, but rather it is the LOVE of money, that is the root of all evil. Ayn Rand was an idiot. No one ever said money is the root of all evil. Atlas was an idiot too.

originally posted by: WanDash

originally posted by: DrinkMoreWater
...Actually, there is a way to fix this country. Take the psychology professors who are teaching future perception management people, psy ops soldiers, and PR people to manipulate people - and have them write up course work for 7th grade and up - then present it to the board of education in each state, each year, until they do something.

...

Thanks for your thoughts, DrinkMoreWater
While I find nothing specific that is disagreeable in the quoted proposition, it does seem 'out of reach'.
Does not seem that it could be practically or effectually applied or implemented until the current paradigm has been fractured, or, at least, significantly weakened.

It's implementation, at that stage in the kid's lives, would be EXTREMELY effective. Doing it in itself would severely fracture and weaken the current paradigm, which relies on these kids NOT KNOWING what is being done to them.

originally posted by: DrinkMoreWater
...It's implementation, at that stage in the kid's lives, would be EXTREMELY effective. Doing it in itself would severely fracture and weaken the current paradigm, which relies on these kids NOT KNOWING what is being done to them.

Again - I am not saying that such an implementation wouldn't be effective. I am saying that 'the beast' will see it for what it is...and will not allow it to get past the first/second stage of consideration - much less, give it the required stamp of Approval.

originally posted by: WanDash

originally posted by: DrinkMoreWater
...It's implementation, at that stage in the kid's lives, would be EXTREMELY effective. Doing it in itself would severely fracture and weaken the current paradigm, which relies on these kids NOT KNOWING what is being done to them.

Again - I am not saying that such an implementation wouldn't be effective. I am saying that 'the beast' will see it for what it is...and will not allow it to get past the first/second stage of consideration - much less, give it the required stamp of Approval.

Yes, which is why I choose to spend my time talking about it. It is simple, and will be extremely effective. Everyone wants to hear a solution, well there you have it. All that is left is to find a way to get it implemented.

If enough people want it to happen - it will. Elections are profitable.

originally posted by: WanDash

originally posted by: bobs_uruncle
...Apart from a military option, the only good option left is starving the beast while exercising the hell out of it. Unfortunately, one has to cut off the corrupt government`s source of power and that lays in banks, money, networking and economies, but it requires a concerted effort by almost everyone in the nation. Hypothetically;

Everyone has to be informed/educated in how the government works, first they have to become politically intelligent
Stop paying all taxes personally, but must include retailers and manufacturers, if they pay taxes boycott them
Flood the government with legal requests like FOIA requests, send the $5 fiat for each request and make them dance
Barter where possible rather than using fiat currency
Demand audits of ALL government departments by third parties and clarification of ALL treaties
Request the rescinding of ALL Bills over the last 10 to 20 years, in writing
Demand Transparency and Personal Responsibility/Liability from all politicians, in writing
Demand ALL of the present politicians step down or resign, in writing
Demand the removal of Lobbyists and Rotating Door policies between government and industry, in writing
Question ALL presumed authority every chance you get, both verbally and in writing

...

(Whittled it down a bit for brevity's sake.)
Sincere thanks for taking the time and investing such thought into your response.
There was no 'baiting' involved, aside from seeing whether anyone complaining (myself & yourself included) thinks that this travesty is worth setting comfort aside, and developing/enacting a plan that might turn the tide.

In today's increasing police state environment, aside from a coup (as illustrated in an earlier portion of your response), I see very few options that would not be 'shut down' with quick and overwhelming force applied by the applicable government/s (and their bastard agencies).
I, however, do see possibilities that would disrupt...to the point of 'crippling'...a number of the major players in this global-monopolizing scheme.
Might be ill advised to spell-out such an idea, however, in the absence of greater interest/passion expressed by more members of the forum.
So...

Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.

My pleasure, I try...

My views are well know by CSIS and the intel community, just read my rant and proposals at Activism, I have monitored many government/military agencies on my site from many countries and colonies. I have been fighting against the system for some time, as early as 1990, Director Baronette at the CRA referred to me as `that merc back from South Africa` after he received intel from either External Affairs or CSIS (my debriefing didn`t go so well), that kind of set me off. Presently I am concentrating on the top-down problems of revenue agencies and the illegitimate use of law via legalized extortion in a conflict of interest driven system. I have other friends who are working the bottom up end of things, they are fighting with some success against the roles of municipal and county managers in the `sustainability`BS being promoted by the government and UN concerning the Agenda 21 and Codex Alimentarius (latin for Food Book basically) scams. The fight has actually forced the resignations of 4 municipal councils in just Ontario, so yes, many are becoming pro-active. Many now, will not eat their sh**t and say mmmm mmmm good, and the numbers are growing towards a tipping point.

I have set comfort aside many times in the past, especially when I was overseas developing systems and fighting terrorism, of course it does not help when a government turns its back on it responsibilities and then destroys the country they were meant to protect. I certainly realize that any upcoming `conversation`with governments concerning structural changes to their corrupt and extortive operations will be uncomfortable for many, almost as much as the deconstruction and reconstruction processes themselves. As far as looking at the process and methodology of enacting change, the governments, their handlers and their strategists have their own solutions for almost any possible scenario, so my hypothesizing that certain things need to be done and trying to maintain secrecy is irrelevant, we are all looking at strategy and the shortest direction to the target by the arrow of change.

Like many, I have prepared myself for negative outcomes in setting up survival systems including alternative energy, heat and food production. I also teach people and give them plans to produce their own energy cheaply, we share this world and we should share everything we can to help each other. I also have dead man`s switches (that also work if I go to jail on trumped up charges) in place for all of the evidence concerning the 150 million dollar tax and public funds fraud involving government ministers, universities and the CRA near the beginning of this millennia, just in case (they can`t sue me or put me in jail if I am dead). If and when the time comes and SHTF, I believe I am ready and hopefully I won`t be so old that I am not an asset. Fortunately knowledge of engineering, chemistry and physics can be taught and transferred to a younger and more viable crowd and used for more pragmatic solutions ;-)

With the present acceleration in business collapse and two additional financial/economic `bubbles`on the horizon, plus the crisis that will occur in Eurasia/Asia, I don`t really expect we will have a long wait ahead of us. Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst and carry a radiation detector.

Cheers - Dave

originally posted by: DrinkMoreWater

originally posted by: WanDash

originally posted by: DrinkMoreWater
...It's implementation, at that stage in the kid's lives, would be EXTREMELY effective. Doing it in itself would severely fracture and weaken the current paradigm, which relies on these kids NOT KNOWING what is being done to them.

Again - I am not saying that such an implementation wouldn't be effective. I am saying that 'the beast' will see it for what it is...and will not allow it to get past the first/second stage of consideration - much less, give it the required stamp of Approval.

Yes, which is why I choose to spend my time talking about it. It is simple, and will be extremely effective. Everyone wants to hear a solution, well there you have it. All that is left is to find a way to get it implemented.

If enough people want it to happen - it will. Elections are profitable.

I would love to agree with you on this as it is very possibly a good solution, education rather than indoctrination, but I highly doubt it would be allowed since it is contrary to the mandate of the corrupt asshats in power.

As far as elections, they are about as fake as a three dollar bill. When you can have 50,000 dead rise from their grave in just one small area, vote and then it goes uncontested, you must know that your society is doomed. But, it`s like that everywhere, not just the US, all elections are rigged by control of the candidates or by control of the counters.

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle
You will never be indoctrinated while receiving your real education. It is your schooling that will indoctrinate you, and that will probably never change. What I am proposing is something that would negate the indoctrination you receive at school, because school will be telling you what it is doing to you and why in one of it's classes.

True that elections are rigged in multiple ways, but they ARE profitable. Eventually, if there is one thing you can count on, it is that someone will love money enough to come snatch up the votes - especially if there are enough citizens being vocal about what they want. Technically you don't even need this step, if the board of education would be reasonable for once in just one state - it will almost certainly spread within a few decades due to the spirit of competition.

Anyways, it is not all that hard to get sell outs to do things that are contrary to their ideological agenda in politics. Happens every day.

But what it would take for you or me to even try to make this happen is - a large amount of money. You have to pay most of these people out here to care. They still allow currency to control them.

You are right that the ruling class would, for the most part, be extremely against this - behind closed doors that is. That doesn't mean it can't happen, though.

a reply to: DrinkMoreWater

Since the system is so one sided, meaning the handlers and their politicians have most of the money and all the power, I see only one solution on which I will not expand. I am quite sure it would violate the T&C.

We do not have the luxury of time for change. Every second of every minute of every day the economy is getting worse, our governments are going further into debt and the quality of life for the majority, floating this obscenity, is getting worse. Through inflation and other instruments of financial rape, our fiat currencies are now worth less than 3% of what they were worth in 1912. Rape, when literal or metaphorical is a violent crime. When it is perpetrated on an entire country, it is treason and actionable. When it is perpetrated on an entire world, it is a crime against humanity and should be treated accordingly.

In Bizarro world, this one, these crimes against whole countries and humanity are rewarded rather than punished, up is down, wrong is right, green is orange. We have suffered an ideological inversion, not just on a personal level, but the entire worldview. These asshats in `power`need a reckoning and I expect they will get one. What was it that was said in `They Live,`I think it was, Ì`m just here to kick ass and chew bubblegum, and I`m all out of bubblegum.`

Cheers - Dave

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

You are not looking at the big picture.

This is not about power. Power will almost always end up in the wrong hands anyways. That is the nature of this fallen world.

This is about human minds and free will.

The real battle is not physical, economic, or political. It is a battle to preserve free will in the human mind, for us - the people. For the ruling class, it is to control the human mind.

a reply to: bobs_uruncle

And yet Americans will try capitalism a 48th time. (There have been 47th economic recessions and depressions in American History.) The very definition of stupidity is trying the same thing over and over and over again and expecting different results. But that's okay. The aristocrats tell us they'll get capitalism right the 48th time...and we will gladly try again!

a reply to: iosolomon

Capitalism is not a problem. Capitalism is good. Our current form of capitalism is very bad. But that is not even the most pressing issue. That problem will correct itself if the real problem is fixed.

As far as economics are concerned, there really is no alternative to capitalism:
cap·i·tal·ism [kap-i-tl-iz-uhm] Show IPA
noun
an economic system in which investment in and ownership of the means of production, distribution, and exchange of wealth is made and maintained chiefly by private individuals or corporations, especially as contrasted to cooperatively or state-owned means of wealth.

That has nothing to do with who regulations favor, the distribution of wealth, how much power corporate entities have, the intent of the laws drafted, or the morals of a society.

It is simply the only morally acceptable economic system and we have done a great job of producing a morally unacceptable version.

originally posted by: iosolomon
a reply to: bobs_uruncle

And yet Americans will try capitalism a 48th time. (There have been 47th economic recessions and depressions in American History.) The very definition of stupidity is trying the same thing over and over and over again and expecting different results. But that's okay. The aristocrats tell us they'll get capitalism right the 48th time...and we will gladly try again!

Actually to paraphrase Einstein, `Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, yet expecting a different result.` But we can go with stupidity as well, it`s just as valid. It`s actually predatory capitalism, it has nothing to do with a free market system, it can`t, everything is controlled and outcomes are always steered to produce a singular flow in the direction of capital/value, always towards the richest in society.

Cheers - Dave