Obama dire climate report more certain than ever

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

As far as fear... you are not sensing fear in me but the warrior goddess KALI's sword, as I expose elements that make people uncomfortable.

Did you seriously just write this? This is exactly what I meant when I wrote that people have to be at a certain level of maturity to have a conversation about global warming.

originally posted by: TiredofControlFreaks
a reply to: Grimpachi

And no one has yet answered my question: WHO WILL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE IF THE GLOBAL WARMING SUPPORTERS ARE WRONG! WHO WILL REFUND OUR MONEY? WHO WILL GO TO JAIL FOR FRAUD?

Tired of Control Freaks

They will hide themselves and disavow any responsibility!

I don't really begrudge someone who believes in man induced climate change theory as that is their right and prerogative just as its my right and prerogative to look at certain data and conclude something else. Unfortunately those who believe in man induced climate change also in the main believe income redistribution schemes are just peachy keen as a method to FORCE their beliefs upon others.

The political class loves you because it lets them use you for consolidation of power by coopting your cause.

I have for years strove to be independent which dovetails with a lower CO2 footprint by nature - I do so not because of climate change but rather because its anathema to my beliefs to be dependent on anyone or anything that I don't have a personal hand in the decision making. I am my own control freak and thank you I don't need your assistance.

Solar power is good for me because I don't like being beholden to big utilities nor do I like the taxes and fees associated with it - solar so far has cost me more but its my choice as part of independence.

I hear peep from climate change proponents about states that have enacted fees which discourage its use.

Gardening makes sense for me and every time I pull something from it I save the CO2 that would have gone into transportation.

I hear peep from climate change proponents when localities and states discourage gardening and small farming.

I use efficient vehicles because I don't like high costs of newer fancy vehicles where I serve as a larger revenue source for wasteful government programs, insurance companies and consumerism.

I hear peep from climate change proponents when data shows ethanol production uses more energy to market than the petroleum it replaces - its basically a vote buying scheme as it stands today and is another form of redistribution in the guise of environmentalism.

I buy items that are repairable even if it costs more upfront because it make sense to spend capitol once and prolong life cycles of appliances, auto's, tools, etc.

When I use alternate heating methods that reduce my dependence on such things as coal fired power plants you turn around and say nothing when government institutes regulation preventing that very reduction.

In toto you climate change promoters are a direct and dire threat to what I'm doing to be as independent as possible by the support of redistributive schemes put forth by controlling politicians, Ignoring my good practice which by default and conscious choice reduces my footprint - see I have no problem voluntarily doing what I'm doing even though my base reasons are not in lockstep with your mantra.

Education and a move away from dependence rather than increasing dependence is something I could get behind but never ever will I agree with redistribution as a method because it flies in the face of what bit of good I'm doing with no coercion whatsoever.

GET OUT OF MY POCKET AND LEAVE ME ALONE AS I"M DOING FAR MORE THAN MOST ON MY OWN VOLITION!

Rather than steal my income for your beliefs why not go after media, government and consumerism which really aggravates the points brought up by you believers by promoting bigger lifestyles, bigger cars, gluttony, greed and a throw away everything society?

a reply to: SirKonstantin
Afraid of the leaders, yes.

www.climatedepot.com... f-the-data-and-agenda-driven-destructive-episode-of-bad-science-gone-berserk/

a reply to: TiredofControlFreaks

Convince me it's all hoax.

even in the face of the fact that other planets are warming at the same time

Are they?

OR is it related to solar activity

Easy to find out, show us how it's solar activity.

Is it natural variation? Temperatures have been as high and higher in the history of the earth.

Yes temperatures have been higher. Earth's climate has varied, for different reasons. This fact alone should give pseudo-skeptics pause... ah but then you'd be actual skeptics (oops). If Earth's climate is susceptible to change from a variety of causes then... ?

Atmospheric CO2 has been higher and lower in the history of the earth.

Resulting in what?

Is it really CO2 that is causing the warming knowing that there is an 800 year gap between high temperatures and high CO2

Co2 or any greenhouse gas does not always begin a warming phase, that particular time period that pseudo-skeptics like trot out and fling around like chimps flinging poo... began due to Earth's orbital precession and obliquity. In other words our orbital path brought Earth closer to the sun and Earth's axial tilt caused the planet to receive more sunlight for more hours in the day over a greater span of Earth's surface. The warming caused a release of CO2 and other greenhouse gases and thus amplified the warming period. The close correlation between CO2 and temperature resumed relatively quickly.

What are the mechanics that control weather - as yet, scientists are unable to predict cloud formation or models for particulate distribution. What mechanisms actually control earths weather

Really? Elaborate.

Why doesn't the current global temperature match our predictions from computer models

They don't? Show me.

Why didn't the computer models predict a 17 year pause in the rise of global temperature. What caused the pause

Define pause.

why are all those smart scientists reluctant to release the raw data?

There's no raw data out there? You can firmly state this?

How can all those computer models predict what the weather will be like in 50 years (accurately and beyond debate) and still can't predict weather for the next three days?

The forecasts I see seem pretty accurate, of course if I bother to watch/read them I pay attention to ALL the details and don't expect the weather to be exactly the same if I travel 5 miles away from the area I read the forecast about.

How can all those computer models predict what the weather will be like in 50 years (accurately and beyond debate) and still can't predict weather for the next three days?

They aren't giving a weather forecast but a general likelihood of wetter/drier/warmer/colder.

why when sceptics point to cold weather are we told that there is a difference between weather and climate. However, when global warming scientists point to the same weather as proof of global warming, we are supposed to swallow the codswallop whole without even chewing.

Weather is affected by climate, regional weather does not tell the whole story on global climate. The US had a brutal winter this year while Australia had a brutal summer, so which region are we supposed to use to tell us whether the weather is being affected by a warmer planet... the answer is both.

And no one has yet answered my question: WHO WILL BE HELD RESPONSIBLE IF THE GLOBAL WARMING SUPPORTERS ARE WRONG! WHO WILL REFUND OUR MONEY? WHO WILL GO TO JAIL FOR FRAUD?

How much have you personally been taxed for climate so far? If you're in the US, nothing. But let's run on the premise that you've convinced me global warming is a hoax designed to take more of my money... market wise, what can change? The government now invests in clean energy and the infrastructure to bring it to all American homes and no longer supports oil/coal/natural gas. I'm not really seeing much difference in my bank account but I'm sure noticing the air is cleaner, there's no more oil spills happening all over the place or the chemicals used to break down oil, or to clean it up. The water's cleaner and not able to be set on fire. Cronyism continues just in different energy industries but the planet's cleaner.

And why aren't we talking about refunds for wars to get access to more oil? My taxes helped fund oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, BP did it wrong and broke the entire Gulf... I want my money back.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

They are doing it-covertly! That is what Agenda 21 is all about, controlling us covertly. Democrat liberal Rosa Koire has written about this plan to covertly bring UN Agenda 21 policies into every town and city and rural community, skirting around the Constitution and national sovereignty, and yes the plan is to pack us into condos and apartments like so many sardines, corralling us into the big cities, encouraging the stopping of single family homes and pushing bike trails in place of cars. Don't believe it? They are pushing a bike trail right here in my area, with a cost of around 15 million bucks, grants and involvement with the local University, planning meetings replete with Delphi technique to manufacture consensus for their plans for ever-increasing government intrusion into our personal lives and our property.

www.democratsagainstunagenda21.com...

a reply to: kimar

Maturity? Perhaps you just missed the metaphysical point. When people who fear a hobgloblin manufactured by Elites like Maurice Strong, Gorbachev, and Al Gore, then tell me I am the one in fear, that was my response. Maturity, well tell that to the many millions in India who believe in Kali! But wait, there are GAIANS here in the US who believe in the earth goddess..... so don't even lecture me about maturity.

Of all the forms of Devi, She is the most compassionate because She provides moksha or liberation to Her children. She is the counterpart of Shiva the destroyer. They are the destroyers of unreality. The ego sees Mother Kali and trembles with fear because the ego sees in Her its own eventual demise. A person who is attached to his or her ego will not be receptive to Mother Kali and she will appear in a fearsome form. A mature soul who engages in spiritual practice to remove the illusion of the ego sees Mother Kali as very sweet, affectionate, and overflowing with incomprehensible love for Her children.

www.goddess.ws...
The GAIANS believe that humans are parasites in the earth.

So guess what bud! You know what you can do with your insults.


Here is an explation of Gaia, the earth goddess, which many AGW proponents believe in.

What is Gaia?
The Gaia Hypothesis proposes that our planet functions as a single organism that maintains conditions necessary for its survival. Formulated by James Lovelock in the mid-1960s and published in a book in 1979, this controversial idea has spawned several interesting ideas and many new areas of research. While this hypothesis is by no means substantiated, it provides many useful lessons about the interaction of physical, chemical, geological, and biological processes on Earth. Thus, it is a good starting point for our study of oceanography, providing a broad overview of the kinds of processes that will interest us throughout the semester.

Throughout history, the concept of Mother Earth has been a part of human culture in one form or another. Everybody has heard of Mother Earth, but have you ever stopped to think who (or what) Mother Earth is? Consider these explanations.

The Hopi name for Mother Earth is Tapuat (meaning mother and child), symbolized by a form of concentric circles or squares. These forms symbolize the cycle of life, the rebirth of the spirit, its earthly path, and, possibly, its return to the spiritual domain. The lines and passages within the "maze" represent the universal plan of the Creator and the path that man must follow to seek enlightenment.

A more imposing definition of Mother Earth might be found in the Hindu goddess Kali. She is the Cosmic Power, representing all of the good and all of the bad in the Universe, combining the absolute power of destruction with the precious motherly gift of creation. It is said that Kali creates, preserves, destroys. Also known as the Black One, her name means "The Ferry across the Ocean of Existence

www.bibliotecapleyades.net...

The difference between the two is that Kali is a friend to mankind, and Gaians believe man is a parasite. Which will you pick?

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

OH NO A BIKE TRAIL! RUN FOR THE HILLS!

www.marketwatch.com...

I wonder what they have planned.

originally posted by: kimar
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

OH NO A BIKE TRAIL! RUN FOR THE HILLS!

Am I to understand from this comment that more paving which adds to the urban heat sink is just fine? If not lets regulate everyone into a go kart sized vehicle getting 80-100 MPG and make one lane into two along with a bike lane?

Costs are minimal!!!! as all it takes is restriping

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

I wasn't trying to insult any religious belief that you have, if I came across that way I apologize. I was insinuating that it is rather childish to claim to be a sword of a God. The quote and link that you provided (which on a side note is quite interesting, Thank You) pretty much says that one must work to quell the ego. It seems you have some work to do (as do many, including myself).

a reply to: Phoenix

Bike trails take vehicles off the road. Bike trails are great!

originally posted by: kimar
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

OH NO A BIKE TRAIL! RUN FOR THE HILLS!

Now you are just using ridicule. I didn't make this up.

Bike trails are popping up all over the nation. I am sure you’ve noticed them too. Have you wondered why the government is spending millions of dollars building bike trails? As a kid I had no problem riding my bike around and I didn’t need a “trail” to do it. Somethings happening here and unlike the lyrics from the Buffalo Springfield song, what it is – IS exactly clear. They are preparing for their endgame goal which is to limit eliminate your car use and to encourage force you onto a bike or simply have you walk, ride a bus or train to get from point A to point B. Don’t believe me? Read this. And for fun Google “cars are

unsustainable” and see what comes up. Your Western lifestyle is unsustainable. It’s going to be fun, you’ll see.

theunsolicitedopinion.com...

Why bike trails? Because cars are evil gas guzzlers ruining paradise earth.....same with wood burning stoves, why do you think California is banning the use of them? Again ruining paradise earth.....never mind that grandma and grandpa might die of hypothermia when the Smart Meters turn off their electric furnaces.... because people like you believe it's the only way to "save the earth from the parasite of man".

Anyway, apparently trails are a very big deal in government www.americantrails.org...
and a program conveniently called ..... Map 21


oh here's a page representing pro biking for your perusal....and wonder what the big deal is about it? Again I didn't make up any of this... mobikefed.org...


More on parks thecommunitariantrap.blogspot.com...

originally posted by: kimar
a reply to: Phoenix

Bike trails take vehicles off the road. Bike trails are great!

I see lots of pleasure and exercise riders in the evenings after working hours but very few if any actual commuters in my area - at least where I'm at its a complete misnomer to say they have any cost benefit regarding reduction of auto traffic.

Big waste of taxpayer money to benefit the few which soaked up money that was supposed to be for road improvement and maintenance.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

I personally relate a lot to the concept of Gaia. I don't think man is a parasite. We can be and we currently are, but we don't have to be, it depends on the choices that we make.

a reply to: kimar

I knew someone would go ballistic over it. Ask me if I care.

The sword of Kali is legendary, and if you really are interested rather than ridiculing or putting me down, read the story of how Ramakrishna, great Sage of India received the vision of Kali.

But he did not have to wait very long. He has thus described his first vision of the Mother: "I felt as if my heart were being squeezed like a wet towel. I was overpowered with a great restlessness and a fear that it might not be my lot to realize Her in this life. I could not bear the separation from Her any longer. Life seemed to be not worth living. Suddenly my glance fell on the sword that was kept in the Mother's temple. I determined to put an end to my life. When I jumped up like a madman and seized it, suddenly the blessed Mother revealed Herself. The buildings with their different parts, the temple, and everything else vanished from my sight, leaving no trace whatsoever, and in their stead I saw a limitless, infinite, effulgent Ocean of Consciousness. As far as the eye could see, the shining billows were madly rushing at me from all sides with a terrific noise, to swallow me up! I was panting for breath. I was caught in the rush and collapsed, unconscious. What was happening in the outside world I did not know; but within me there was a steady flow of undiluted bliss, altogether new, and I felt the presence of the Divine Mother." On his lips when he regained consciousness of the world was the word "Mother".

www.ramakrishnavivekananda.info...

I cannot compare myself to a great Sage, but I do understand the nature of Kali worship and the reason for it. This is why I chose to use the example of Kali when someone projected his own fear on me. Like it or don't I do not care.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Current civilization is unsustainable. We are severely damaging this planet. 150-200 species are going extinct every single day. We are heating this planet and destroying entire ecosystems. The acidity level of oceans are making them uninhabitable. Our extraction of gas and fossil fuels are poisoning waters and causing earthquakes. There is 200 million tonnes of plastic alone floating in the oceans. We are destroying mountains for coal.

Come on. It does not take a genius to know that we must change our way of life if we want our species to survive. In the long run this glorious, beautiful, wondrous Earth will survive, but we will not. Our actions are without any question what so ever having a disastrous effect on life on this planet and the life of this planet.

a reply to: Plugin
Having been looking at the possibility of building a new home, in a few years, I was looking at those that would be considered green, using less wood to build, and thus reducing the carbon footprint. The sad part is that the greener the homes the more expensive they tend to be. One would think that a green home, with the government backing, would cost less than its counterpart. More and more alternative homes should be showing more of a stronger position, with the idea being that if it can last for years and sustainable, the cost should be less and less.

I am also reminded of history, when supplies were short and people were encouraged to recycle, reuse, and even do things for themselves, like growing a garden for food, canning and making things for themselves, rather than just going down to the corner store to purchase such. Even growing up, my parents had a vegitable garden and canned the extra to eat in the winter, cutting down the need to go to the grocery store for veggies. If you look at Hawaii, many residents tend to go off the grid, and have sustainable homes, with solar power, catchmen setups and home gardens to grow food to help with the costs, along with chickens and other items to make ends meet.

One would think with a president who was suppose to have lived in and been born in Hawaii would use them as an example of going green, and offer more incentives and aid to help more communities do such.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus
If I was going to do that, I would make it appealing, consider this, you want people to embrace it you offer homes that can house say 4 people at a percentage less than its counterpart, even making they can show and demonstrate how well it will cut the living costs down. The problem is that they are not wanting to take the obvious solution and continue on as business as usual.

originally posted by: sdcigarpig
Having been looking at the possibility of building a new home, in a few years, I was looking at those that would be considered green, using less wood to build, and thus reducing the carbon footprint. The sad part is that the greener the homes the more expensive they tend to be. One would think that a green home, with the government backing, would cost less than its counterpart. More and more alternative homes should be showing more of a stronger position, with the idea being that if it can last for years and sustainable, the cost should be less and less.

The problem people generally run into with this is generally the 'alternative' part - it's hard to get a loan for one. They aren't 'known' quantities for banks. They don't 'mesh' with existing, neighboring houses. Often, they are seen to drive down property values. Banks also have a hard time seeing the resale value of these structures.

Take Monolithic dome homes - they are virtually impervious to nature's wrath due to their aerodynamic, reinforced concrete structure. They tend to cost 10-20% more at the scale of a typical home (they can be more cost efficient than traditional structures at a larger scale, like a school) than traditional structures. They easily make up for this in increased efficiency and reduced maintenance over time. It's an easy tradeoff for a lot of people - but it's hard to get loans from banks to fund building one. This means you have to already have the money set aside to construct one, which means you're probably upper middle or upper class. As I recall, this is why Monolithic has all but gotten out of the home construction business.

a reply to: sdcigarpig

Unfortunately many of the corporations that benefit from destroying the planet have politicians in their back pocket and any sign of their precious profits being harmed is fought vigourously. Lets not forget that companies like Exxon receive taxpayer subsidies despite reporting record revenues. Its sick. In Oklahoma there was recently instated a tax on the use of solar energy to protect big oil and gas. Completely disgusting.

Obama has proven himself to be nothing but a corporatist through and through so it is no surprise that he has taken little action to help the environment.