Putin's Human Rights Council Accidentally Posts Real Crimean Election Results; Only 15% Voted For A

originally posted by: WarminIndy
As the head of the military, isn't he accountable to us, then? Why hasn't he been made accountable? And then how do we go about making him accountable?

As an elected official and President he is answerable to the people of the United States first as foremost.

Participation in the system by the people is the expectation the founding fathers had. When the constitution was drafted a passer by asked Franklin what type of government was chosen. Franklin responded - A Republic... if you can keep it.

The United states is not a Democracy, its a Representative Republic. That means we elect people to government that represents the peoples interest.

We get the right to overthrow our government every 2 years via elections. Accountability of elected officials comes via participation and being heard, not only during elections but throughout the year. There is nothing stopping people from writing / calling their elected officials to be heard. You are their boss and you have every right to keep tabs on what's going on and what they are thinking. If their performance sucks you support someone else to replace them.

Work with your city / local / state government and remind them about the State and Federal Government being separate sovereigns. The one thing state governments hate more is when the federal government encroaches on states rights.

When the Senior Democratic Senator of New York tells media during an interview that the 3 branches of government are the President, the House and the Senate, and no one challenges him, and even worse reelects him, then we get exactly what we deserve.

Be heard...
Vote...
Participate...
Its fine to bitch, but actions must be more than just that.

If you identify a problem, and talk about the problem, and complain about the problem, and how the problem occurred - will it ever get fixed if that's as far as people take it?

There is 1 President, 1 Vice President, and 535 members of Congress and 300+ million Americans. We have, and will always have, a numerical advantage. So you tell me why we are where we are.

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: WarminIndy
As the head of the military, isn't he accountable to us, then? Why hasn't he been made accountable? And then how do we go about making him accountable?

There is 1 President, 1 Vice President, and 535 members of Congress and 300+ million Americans. We have, and will always have, a numerical advantage. So you tell me why we are where we are.

I agree with everything you say.

But the damage has been done, what does that say about us? We have the right of representation unlike Crimea but is it enough to say that we overturn our government every two years when the same old men reside there for 40 years or more?

We can't hold him accountable when people are do defensive of him, no matter how much damage he causes, so people must like living this way, that's all I can think. And yes, I am very vocal to my representatives. For the 2012 election, I called up every candidate and asked them personally what their platforms are and how they would represent Indiana, but we have Indianapolis, that now has a higher murder rate than Chicago, and Gary, next door to Chicago and very Rahm-enamored.

Even if we outnumber them, if people are comfortable on hot air and empty promises, then we can't change our neighbors for voting their conscience, even if it was a stupid choice. We the People aren't any more, we are We This Group and We That Group.

Putin managed to overlook all of that and enforced the will of the mighty Russian bear mentality. Crimea isn't the big goal of Putin, Finland and Sweden are, and they just joined a mutual pact for security against Russia. If Finland is starting to feel the heat, then it isn't about Crimea, it's about control of the north of Europe.

Finland-Swedish Military Pact

Did they need to wait for our President to approve them making that pact? And if they have made the pact, doesn't that show that even those Democratic countries are shaking now?

a reply to: WarminIndy

It tells me the American people have become complacent, have absolutely no idea what their responsibilities are as citizens in a Representative Republic and would rather bitch(in general and not directed at you) than actually get their hands dirty by getting involved and helping fix things at home.

As for European countries and defense pacts -

Sovereign nations are free to run their own affairs. They are free to choose who they like and don't like. Nations are free to engage others in dialogue, disagree and agree.

As for approval of this or that it will depend on the details. European nations who are not in NATO do have agreements with NATO.

Engagement in communication is a lot better than engagement on a battlefield.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: ColCurious
The difference between Syria and Ukraine is civilian deaths.

The intensity / death toll is de jure irrelevant, and you know this (being LEO).
Also, I know "designated military targets" but not the term "military-style targets" (could be a translation issue though... translation issues are big in this area - as seen in the debate on the international conference of humanitarian international law).

originally posted by: Xcathdra
To date Ukraine has attacked military style targets.

The seperatists in eastern-Ukraine don't have a regular army... at least I didn't see them wearing any national uniform/insignia that would ID them to be national military combattants, so de facto Ukraine is fighting an insurgency. Even officially Kiev called it an "anti-terrorist operation"... just like Assad did.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Wikileaks released evidence that WMDS were located in Iraq.

That is actually news to me... would you mind throwing me a link?

a reply to: ColCurious

The deaths is specifically what I am referring to and further how those deaths occurred. Ukraine has not started to indiscriminately use their military assets that shows a explicit disregard for civilian lives where as Syria just doesn't care, so long as Assad stays in power.

So yes, there is a major difference and yes it is relevant.


The Separatists do have an army and that was clearly demonstrated in Crimea and substantiated by Putin when he told RT news the armed green men with no insignias in Crimea were in fact Russian Military members. Those units were NOT a part of the Black Sea Fleet and their presence not only violated the agreement but Ukraine territorial sovereignty and was an act of war by Russia on Ukraine.

The continuation is what we are seeing in the South / East Ukraine. Same game plan, same method of operation, "separatists" who are using top of the line Russian equipment that is only supplied to the Russian military.


WMD's -
US did find Iraq WMD
The UNR's passed since the end of the 1st gulf war were clear and they did not allow for their presence, in any quantity, period. There is also Intel that shows a bulk of that program ended up in Syria prior to the US going in.

Israel launched an air attack on facilities in Syria, destroying some buildings. Interesting part was Syria did not respond, no complaint to the UN, nothing. why? See info about Iraq and what ended up in Syria.

My goodness. People, please do some independent investigating. Please do not trust the mass media's reports on say Russia, yet you know not to trust them for anything else. There are plenty of videos on youtube showing the atrocities being committed by this coup installed government now in power in Kiev. I do a lot of research regarding independent and verifiable world events. There is just no way in my opinion this "15%" Leak, is not a hoax. And definitely a sham. In Crimea, the Tatars "ethnic Muslim population" makes up 15% of the crimea, and the main concern of who'd be oppressed. In the new Russian Crimean constitution they have been given written guarantee of a minimum 20% representation in the government, and all mountains, lakes, and rivers renamed to their original Tartar names. They now receive 100 times the rights and treatment they got under Ukraine. Another point being that 55% of Crimea is ethnic Russian. Until 1960s Crimea was a part of Russia, and gifted by Khrustchev (who's Ukrainian) to Ukraine. Over all, Ukraine's population of 53million, 20million are Russian. Pretty much 50%. And Crimea's new pentions have been doubled, and up to par with Russia's since joining Russia. Yanukovich was an Elected president, whom the west supported until he turned down the EU detail. Then was over thrown by force, 1 day after signing an EU supported peace deal, and calling for new elections in 1year. Finally, it is fully documented that the Usa via cia, directly sponsored, initiated, directed, financed, and armed all the unrest in this tragic and on going crisis. Even look up the Odessa massacre that happened 3 days ago. The coup imposed militia trapped anti coup civilians in a building, and then proceeded to torch the building via moltov cocktails. Burning to death 47 people!! There are many cell phone videos detailing this whole event available on you tube.

a reply to: BernCron
so what you are saying :
in absence of independent verification of the OP is HOAX?

a reply to: Danbones

Why aren't there reports of upset people leaving Crimea to live in the Ukraine, or reports of Crimean separatists demonstrating against the secession from Ukraine and joining the Russian Federation? Where is all the dissatisfaction within Crimea?

Could it be that they aren't parading upset Crimean people across the screens of the world because they can't find a sufficient number?

a reply to: Xcathdra

Wikileaks released evidence that WMDS were located in Iraq.

Oh if its Wikileaks then it must be true.

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
a reply to: Xcathdra

Wikileaks released evidence that WMDS were located in Iraq.

Oh if its Wikileaks then it must be true.

NOT Wikipedia... Wikileaks.. The group that stole all the classified info and released it. Julian Assange... Wikileaks.

Reply to danbones.. sorry new to Ats, first actual post. Can u expand upon your question? I don't really understand. Asking if what is or isn't independently verified "op" is hoax? Either way, I'm canadian, and am in absolute shock as to how our media is covering all the events over there. If anyone chooses to research this topic from non western media reports, 1 sees how bad it really is. There are easily accessible phone recordings of virtora nuland, usa European top, admitting to 4billion in usa aid to fund/cause this whole mess. There is documentation of all heads of opposition visiting canadian/usa embacies on a daily basis getting instructions since 3 months b4 the protest even began in December. Police raids on these oppositions houses b4 the fall of government produced a ridiculous amount of now public accessible documentation of western instructions, funding, training and so forth. There was the smear campaign by western media of russia leading up to olympics, ie gay bashing (only russian legislation on gay anything, is that homosexuality cannot b promoted to minors) there are 2 gay bars in sochi alone, open b4 olympics, still open now. Or the culling of stray dogs. All nonsense, and a preset to the ukraine op. The "militants/terrorists/seperatists" in the east, are all actual Ukrainian, mostly unarmed civilian protestor. Their main demand, actually openly documented, is for their referendum to be held, not to suceed from Ukraine and join russia, but actual demands being to have more state autonomy, and state control while remaining in Ukraine. Yet, we r not being told this. In Crimea now, Russia has declared it to be a special economic zone, like how bangkok, hongkong, virgin islands are. To spur tax free development, and corporate development. As well as building of new hotels, resorts, and casinos. All going to boost Crimean economy 100 fold than before crisis. Lots of videos of atrocities happening across ukraine get posted to youtube, but then blocked. Why are we being censored from what's happening there? To find the videos, you must look for ones with less than a few thousand views. The citizens there, keep uploading them to show us all the truth!! Finally, coincidence that civil wars promoted by usa/nato happened mostly in Syria and Ukraine. The only 2 foreign countries to host Russia's naval bases outside of Russian terittory? Also both countries having insane McCain show up in them at the onset of the unrest in them? Lastly, putin's actually aproval rating in Russia sits at an all time high of 75% for how he handled Crimea. He's currently taking a lot of critisms from within govt for not intervening in the eastern and southern areas of ukraine right now. 21 million ethnic Russian's live in that area, they r currently being attacked, murdered, and oppressed. The fact he's showing such restraint, I believe, is a sign of trying to not trigure Ww3, despite war being on their borders

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Agent_USA_Supporter
a reply to: Xcathdra

Wikileaks released evidence that WMDS were located in Iraq.

Oh if its Wikileaks then it must be true.

NOT Wikipedia... Wikileaks.. The group that stole all the classified info and released it. Julian Assange... Wikileaks.

I was a radio announcer at this time, and our station was the first to go live internet streaming in North Carolina. When news like this was first being broadcast, I had found the interviews with the first UN inspector who stated right off the bat, that Iraq was sending the WMDs to Syria. The man was quickly fired and then replaced by someone else who then said there were no WMDs in Iraq. Of course not, they went to Syria.

We also had the live stream from IRN radio network that we streamed at the top of every hour. For the first few days it was reported over and over again that Iraq had sent them to Syria. But then the new guy comes along and says it isn't true.

CNN backpedaled on the story to make Bush look wrong. But other sources were reporting it. The vast majority of people jumped on the CNN report and believed it. You have to remember that at this time, Kofi Annan's son was involved in the weapons for food program.

originally posted by: BernCron
My goodness. People, please do some independent investigating. Please do not trust the mass media's reports on say Russia, yet you know not to trust them for anything else. There are plenty of videos on youtube showing the atrocities being committed by this coup installed government now in power in Kiev.

Really - lots of atrocities being committed by the legally elected government of Ukraine and the interim administration formed when the president abandoned the country??

Where are all these?? I dont' se any.

the OP is from an official Russian Government institution - it is not fake, it is not a hoax, it is a Russian publication, by a commission set up by the President of Russia, written in Russian, on a Russian website.

Sorry if doesn't conform to your concept of anyone opposing the USA/IMF must be saving us from the NWO (or whatever), but you could probably save yourself looking like a complete numpty by not making stupid statements.

'

originally posted by: Xcathdra
So yes, there is a major difference and yes it is relevant.

De facto, yes. De jure? No.

originally posted by: Xcathdra
The Separatists do have an army [...]

They are either terrorists, insurgents or a militia (depending whose terminology), but not a regular army.

Of course the situation in eastern Ukraine is different from the civil war in Syria.
But there is so much assumption and speculation, and very little independent info, so that it is hard to assess what the de facto situation really is... thus the importance of sticking to the little facts we do know, and the existing legislative framework (again, I'm not saying that the Russians didn't violate any international laws).

Everything else is just opinion (which you're entitled to have ofc...)

Thanks alot for the link! I'll look into it.

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Oh wow bro! Seriously?! Is storm clouds gathering links allowed on here?
There is just way too much real info out there to be that ignorant! U had insane McCain starting the ukraine, u had that ukraine viral vid by the phony kony crew, + 1000 other pieces of evidence! This 1 is all west caused!

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Mind you, youtube videos post by ukrainian showing the truth, do get blocked pretty quick! If u only watch cnn, I understand how u can

Just an intro for ya. m.youtube.com...

originally posted by: BernCron
a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

Oh wow bro! Seriously?! Is storm clouds gathering links allowed on here?
There is just way too much real info out there to be that ignorant! U had insane McCain starting the ukraine, u had that ukraine viral vid by the phony kony crew, + 1000 other pieces of evidence! This 1 is all west caused!

so no actual evidence then...thanks for your contribution to the discussion.

a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul

U watch the link? Have u seen the Odessa massacre?
Plenty of evidence