We are the Offering and Sacrifice to God

a reply to: jmdewey60

Isaiah 24 comes to mind...

Our small and big sufferings, crosses offered to God in prayer save souls! We unite our sufferings with Christ.

But far, far greater of infinite value, is the eternal sacrifice of Christ offered to the Father until the end of time
in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Our Lord's suffering on Calvary is represented to the Father. I share the words
of an Apostolic father because...

Some people fall for the heresy of "private judgment" of Scripture so you could give the correct Church interpretation but they will argue and NEVER come to agreement. Non-Catholic Christians believe they have the authority to interpret Scripture, each person. God did NOT give every person reading the written Word the authority to interpret it. With our fallen nature which includes pride, there would be/is disagreement. Look at the fruit of Private Judgment, error and division by the tens of thousands in Protestantism. God gave the authority to interpret Scripture to the Church, she compiled the Bible. Important to read the Douay-Rheims and her footnotes. www.drbo.org...

Here are the beautiful words of Ignatius, 3rd Bishop of Antioch. Did you know, Ignatius as a boy knew Beloved
John! So notice the early date. "Single altar of sacrifice", truly, Our Lord's one time perfect SACRIFICE is represented
to the Father in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass offered every day, every hour all around the world .


Ignatius of Antioch

"Make certain, therefore, that you all observe one common Eucharist; for there is but one Body of our Lord Jesus Christ, and but one cup of union with his Blood, and one single altar of sacrifice—even as there is also but one bishop, with his clergy and my own fellow servitors, the deacons. This will ensure that all your doings are in full accord with the will of God" (Letter to the Philadelphians 4 [A.D. 110]).

In the divine "awakening", the Great Warning, God is going to reveal to the world the faith is Roman Catholicism, He
wants you to become Catholic. The Remnant is Roman Catholic. Say "yes!" when it happens.

a reply to: Akragon

Isaiah 24 comes to mind...

I think the point that The Lord is making was that He would be willing to destroy the earth if that was what it took to bring Israel to righteousness through repentance.
It is more metaphorical than literal but it dealt with a situation that was real enough, the rise of the pagan empires to the east who were hungry to absorb the wealth of weaker countries to their own capitals as loot.

a reply to: colbe

. . . the eternal sacrifice of Christ offered to the Father until the end of time . . .

I think that is a holdover from the imperial cult of pagan Rome.

Some people fall for the heresy of "private judgment" of Scripture . . .

I think you mean people reading the scripture and seeing that it does not support some Catholic beliefs.

Did you know, Ignatius as a boy knew Beloved
John! So notice the early date.

I think that once the Catholic Church invented the idea of apostolic succession, they made up people to fill in the gap, and made them connected to the original Apostles, then back-dated the documents.

. . . God is going to reveal to the world the faith is Roman Catholicism, He
wants you to become Catholic.

What God supposedly wants is all too often enforced by people, and ones not very nice, who would be all too happy to burn you at the stake if you do not comply with those wishes.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: colbe

. . . the eternal sacrifice of Christ offered to the Father until the end of time . . .

I think that is a holdover from the imperial cult of pagan Rome.

Some people fall for the heresy of "private judgment" of Scripture . . .

I think you mean people reading the scripture and seeing that it does not support some Catholic beliefs.

Did you know, Ignatius as a boy knew Beloved
John! So notice the early date.

I think that once the Catholic Church invented the idea of apostolic succession, they made up people to fill in the gap, and made them connected to the original Apostles, then back-dated the documents.

. . . God is going to reveal to the world the faith is Roman Catholicism, He
wants you to become Catholic.

What God supposedly wants is all too often enforced by people, and ones not very nice, who would be all too happy to burn you at the stake if you do not comply with those wishes.

"Apostolic succession" is "made up."

Rather immature, the teachings of Christ given the Apostles and the same Christ given authority (laying on of hands) passed on from the Apostles...according to the OP, is made up.

Deny history, Holy Scripture is a Catholic book. "Back dated", tee hee.....how far do you have to come forward in the centuries to proclaim the varied (thousands) of versions of Protestantism is true? 16 centuries~!, yikes. And Protestantism's (beginning in the 16 the century) teachings (the heresies), none of them came from the Apostles. Read the Church Fathers, their quotes. Many a Protestant pastor has converted after reading these men, some of them knew the Apostles.

Try to see the difference, between the teachings of the Church and the fact we are all sinners. It is God's grace we need, why He established the faith Jim. Cromwell in the Protestant Inquisition, Protestant persecution, murdered 2 million Irish Roman Catholics, starving them to death! Seee....

Promise me, when God shows you personally the faith is Roman Catholicism, you will say "yes?' You already accept God wants us all to believe the same so come further....


GBY,

colbe

The Early Church Fathers believed and taught that the Mass was a true SACRIFICE. It was NOT a new sacrifice but a participation in the one sacrifice of Christ on the cross. They understood that there are two parts to a sacrifice, the slaying of the victim and the offering up of the fruits. The Mass is the second part. Such a sacrifice was foretold in the Old Testament. In Malachi 1:11 we read: “From the rising of the sun to its setting my name is great among the nations, and in every place incense is offered to my name, and a pure offering, for my name is great among the nations, says the Lord of hosts.” The sacrifice spoken of is NOT the Judaic sacrifice. The passage refers to a pure sacrifice (Jesus) that will take place everywhere among the nations (Gentiles). The sacrifice of the Mass is the sacrifice which takes place everywhere among the nations.

The Didache

Assemble on the Lord’s Day, and break bread and offer the Eucharist: but first make confession of your faults, so that your sacrifice may be a pure one. Anyone who has a difference with his fellow is not to take part with you until he has been reconciled, so as to avoid any profanation of your sacrifice [Matt. 5:23—24]. For this is the offering of which the Lord has said, "Everywhere and always bring me a sacrifice that is undefiled, for I am a great king, says the Lord, and my name is the wonder of nations" [Mal. 1:11, 14] (Didache 14 [A.D. 70).

a reply to: jmdewey60

Sort of a dreadful analysis of the universe, if you think that somehow every detail of it was planned to be exactly that way, ahead of time.

I think I'll borrow from Aphorism here, since s/he did a most eloquent job of expressing my response.

An inherent theme of common-place spirituality is the idea of effortless action, letting go, the dao of not trying, and letting faith decide. The end result of this paradox is the effort that effortless action requires, the holding on to letting go, and constantly trying not to try. It becomes their religion. We should also let go of of letting go. We should also not try not trying. We should also have faith in no faith. It’s effortless. But we cannot. Happiness requires that we live in paradox and happiness we desire. Happiness requires that we go to great lengths to numb our cognitive control, numb our very nature, our senses, our entire body, and all capacities that might throw us into self-conflict—our worry, our desire for the past and future, our pessimism, our negativity, our criticism, our seeking, our want and words—for these are the capacities most proven to cause suffering. They are correct in this assertion. These tools aren’t meant for discovering happiness. But they tell us that for happiness, their greatest god, one must be without these human capacities, and to achieve this, they sacrifice themselves.

According to age old doctrine, first, as effortlessly as possible, we must deceive ourselves, a sort of mental evisceration. We must reduce ourselves to paradoxes that never actualize. For no other reason than to attempt to escape the suffering and changing world, we must divide ourselves from it into two parts: the body, and whatever is left over, an entity which has taken countless names. We must hold this as a presupposition, as given, as law. For the sake of whatever is left over, and to further create a chasm between oneself, one must see one’s body as an illusion, and what is left over, as reality. This involves a simple switch in terminology, which is the basis of all religion. We honor certain ideas with certain honorific terms, and have done so throughout history. Reality is what we call “reality”. But for a species superstitious of their words, and idolaters of their symbols, this technique works wonders on one’s own self-deception. All one needs to do to convert another (for one likes to share his happiness) like a snake charmer with such empty words as “transcendence”, “bliss” or “divinity”, a lovely tune and smoke and mirrors, to have him willing to try anything to receive these rewards.

Still a little rough, but definitely a solid start.

Do you have a better Bible verse to support your position that God wants to destroy us?

Why would I use the Bible to support my position? It's a very droll, outdated, inconsistent source of information. My position is based on the character known as God's demeanor, personality, MO (modus operandi). If there is one thing you can rely on any person to do, it's be themselves. And even if they are pretending to be someone else, their actions will always serve the ends of the person they really are. They will not sacrifice themselves just to maintain an illusion, because that defeats the whole point of the illusion. I read here on ATS that Satan/Lucifer is the great illusionist, the liar of all liars. And yet, you seem to forget all of the times we've dragged other political scapegoats through the mud and stopped to wonder if maybe we're not being played. It's a lot like...what's his name? Emmanuel Goldstein, from George Orwell's 1984. Everyone's hatin' on the guy who isn't present to defend himself, because they know better than to turn on the guy holding the strings. Just pretend your head's in the right place and you'll live another day. But even so, you can't forget the one fact looming over your head every day of your life: you're expendable. Your soul is not desirable except by the grace, the love, and the mercy of your forgiving lord. You are the garbage of the universe without his favor. And just like garbage, he will burn you in the end.

I don't have any Bible verses for you. But do you know why I don't trust this God fellow? Because if I wanted to enslave the masses and trick them into adoring me and me alone forevermore, this is exactly how I'd do it. I can see exactly how the trick is played. But you want to believe it's real magic.

a reply to: [post=17894866]colbe[/post

]Deny history, Holy Scripture is a Catholic book.

There is a made up history that the Catholic Church maintains, which includes the claim that Jesus himself founded it, so anyone deviating from that are just so many heretics doomed to hell.
Actual history tells us that the Catholic Church was created later.
It wasn't until Christianity was made legal that an openly institutionalized hierarchy could develop.
Pretty much at the same time that the Catholic Church became official was when the demise of a succession occurred, brought on by the attempt to crush Arianism that resulted in the deaths of thousands in the clergy, forcing the church to recruit priests from the pagan religions.

a reply to: colbe

The Early Church Fathers believed and taught that the Mass was a true SACRIFICE.

And . . so?
Look at the title of the thread.
Of course I believe in a sacrifice, so that is not the problem.
What I think that you are implying is that we somehow get credit for offering Jesus to God, something that the Bible never supports.
Praise is classified as a sacrifice by the Bible, so your quote does not prove this thesis that I think you are trying to promote.

a reply to: AfterInfinity

I think I'll borrow from Aphorism here, since s/he did a most eloquent job of expressing my response.

I don't see how what you quoted applies.
I'm talking about how the universe came about.
Like you said, a "little rough".
I don't think that a single person created the universe.
You approach the situation that we live in with the idea that there is a single person who we can blame for how the universe is, and on top of that, claiming that this person is inherently evil by nature because He planned it to be exactly the way it is.
You can think that, probably by listening to other people make this same sort of claim but ignoring the bad aspects of the universe, and pretending that creation is evidence of this person's goodness.
I think that what we need to look at is how much worse the universe could be to try to live in if there wasn't some sort of other person with special powers out there making sure that things are working better than they would if they just operated totally at random.

Why would I use the Bible to support my position? It's a very droll, outdated, inconsistent source of information.

I think that if you want to spend a big chunk of your free time criticizing what Christians believe, then it would be worthwhile to consult the manual and source of authority in regards to Christianity.

But do you know why I don't trust this God fellow?

I think you are confusing the person, God, with people claiming to speak for Him.

But you want to believe it's real magic.

I'm 60 years old, so have experienced a few things, including ones that you would call magic, so it is real to me and not just something that I believe in in a passive sort of way.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: colbe

The Early Church Fathers believed and taught that the Mass was a true SACRIFICE.

And . . so?
Look at the title of the thread.
Of course I believe in a sacrifice, so that is not the problem.
What I think that you are implying is that we somehow get credit for offering Jesus to God, something that the Bible never supports.
Praise is classified as a sacrifice by the Bible, so your quote does not prove this thesis that I think you are trying to promote.

Wrongo dear Jim, "praise" is a type of prayer. Jesus "eternal SACRIFICE" on the Cross offered, represented to the Father every day. remember, the world is still sinning. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass saves the world, it is the greatest form of worship.

You will understand in the divine Warning, Protestants hear it called the "awakening" in their prophecy.


God bless you,


Mary

a reply to: colbe

Mary is me, colbe.

Look at the current message to non-Catholic Christian Debra Lowe. (an excerpt)

May 2, 2014

If you could only see, Oh the joy that would flood your heart. TextI will open your eyes and give you the ability to see something in Me that you have never seen before. It is our time, it is our season, the lover and his bride, the mighty God and His gift. We are about to do some awesome things, yes we are. Things that this world has never seen (divine awakening), and you are ready says the Lord. Yes, you are ready, says the Lord, so I have come in the midst of you to let you know how pleased I am with you.

So give Me all the glory, and all of your praise, in advance, by faith, and you will find yourself hidden in a secret place (at the refuges, when the terrible persecution gets worse, the chip), where My power transcends time, and you will walk like never before in a fresh new mind and attitude. It is our season, it is our time, hold your head up high and get ready to do the mighty things I have called and ordained you to. Get ready, for I Am about to do it in you. This is supernatural!

God is going to show the world, non-Christians too by His grace and power the faith, Roman Catholicism. You will have to decide, free will to say yes or no. The Remnant is Roman Catholic. Satan desires to take down the faith, the prophesied False prophet is a non-pope. Satan could care less about a Sunday Pastor's sermon and fellowship, he knows who the truth faith IS.

A 100 times I ask, why do Satanists steal and desecrate CONSECRATED hosts? And perform Black Masses, to mimic?
Satan and his man, the anti-Christ believe Our Lord is truly present in the Eucharist, in the consecrated bread and consecrated wine.

Pray for conversions...at long last, as it was in the beginning, we will all believe the same!

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: [post=17894866]colbe[/post

]Deny history, Holy Scripture is a Catholic book.

There is a made up history that the Catholic Church maintains, which includes the claim that Jesus himself founded it, so anyone deviating from that are just so many heretics doomed to hell.
Actual history tells us that the Catholic Church was created later.
It wasn't until Christianity was made legal that an openly institutionalized hierarchy could develop.
Pretty much at the same time that the Catholic Church became official was when the demise of a succession occurred, brought on by the attempt to crush Arianism that resulted in the deaths of thousands in the clergy, forcing the church to recruit priests from the pagan religions.

I see the vague and total fabrication in the above. "Later"...sounds, yes, vague. It sure wasn't Protestantism begun October 31, 1517 who compiled Scripture. Long time to wait, talk about "later" for the written Word. Protestants want you ignore early Church history, they usually sum Christianity before the Revolt in one or two paragraphs by naming only one fella, Constantine, he's it for the first 16 centuries of Christianity!

God wants everyone to believe the same, He has one plan. Jesus' prayer to the father, remember for the time
ahead.

Jim accepts the New Testament Canon decided because of His God given authority by Pope Damasus in 382 A.D. Once Jim tried to say it was the Orthodox who decided the Canon but whoever it was, two of that person's decided books are NOT in the New Testament Canon. Jim accepts the Catholic Canon but tells you Roman Catholicism is not the true faith.

Really, like Our Lord didn't know what He was doing. All throughout the Gospel you see the primacy of Peter. God chooses leaders on earth, we already know this from the Old Testament. Who is God's chosen leader of
15th century Protestantism? Who did God raise up that non-Catholic Christians can call their spiritual leader on earth? No one. Martin Luther's personal history before and after the revolt is especially vile (ie: Luther hated Judaism). Where is the spiritual leader on earth of Protestantism today? Everyone decides for themselves.
If you disagree with a Protestant Pastor, you leave that community or start your own, this is not of God.

And, how can you use the word "succession" and remain Protestant? Where is the succession from Christ to the Apostles in Protestantism? There isn't any! Read history, those men protested and broke from the faith.

I've shared before, you see in Matthew, Jesus named Peter leader of the faith, there is one Church, Jesus used the singular in Matthew 16:18. Look at the verse before. How can we be sure the teachings of the faith remain true? Because Our Lord said God would do it. In Matthew 16:17, Jesus said to Peter, "only the Father has revealed this to you."

Jesus named Peter leader of the faith and Peter's successors to follow. The line is unbroken.

Roman Catholicism proclaims the teachings of Our Lord, she can never error on faith and morals. Be assured by
Our Lord's words, He also said to Peter in the same verse and Satan will not overcome My Church.


God bless you JD,

a reply to: colbe

Jim accepts the Catholic Canon but tells you Roman Catholicism is not the true faith.

You just have a skewed idea of what "Catholic" means.
Whatever is good since John the Baptist is Catholic, while everything else is "Protestant".

I've shared before, you see in Matthew, Jesus named Peter leader of the faith, . . .

Jesus taught not to be called rabbi or father, and not to be the lord over others.

. . . there is one Church, Jesus used the singular in Matthew 16:18.

There is one church in the spirit, and there is one leader, Jesus himself.

Here is why the catholic church teaches that Jesus is the sacrifice

26 While they were eating, Jesus took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it and gave it to his disciples, saying, “Take and eat; this is my body.”

27 Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you. 28 This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. 29 I tell you, I will not drink from this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father’s kingdom.”

This portion of the bible is recited daily during mass around the globe. It explains why I mentioned blood sacrifices and why the old animal sacrifices ended with Jesus. Catholicism believes in a miracle called the transubstantiation where the host literally becomes flesh and the wine blood.


While googling how to spell transubstantiate I stumbled upon this fascinating vid on the matter




Website i found the video on

a reply to: markosity1973

It explains why I mentioned blood sacrifices and why the old animal sacrifices ended with Jesus.

OK, but can you explain "it"?
You offer these verses.
Can you describe the steps of logic that goes from them to your conclusion?
I mean, how do you do it?
Or do you just accept that the Catholic Church came to that conclusion somehow, and you acquiesce to their superior spiritual understanding?

My interpretation is that there is a thing, a "blood of the covenant".
To Moses, his "blood of the covenant" was the ceremony that he performed with the twelve elders of Israel , for them to personally agree to the terms, then sealing it (their oaths) with with blood poured out onto the twelve standing stones erected at the foot of Mount Sinai, thus making the oaths binding for "the many", meaning the tribes thus represented.

Moses had his "blood of the covenant", now Jesus was having his "blood of the covenant" ceremony.
The first to keep Moses' laws, the second for forgiveness.
If we understand Jesus' teachings, forgiveness comes through repentance, forsaking those sins and going on to live righteously.

Isn't it odd to have this thread up and running. I wonder if that iron throne Obama was sitting on was photoshopped but I'm a little fed up with the agenda's going on.

No human is an acceptable sacrifice to Love and Goodness.

God is nothing on earth, no Rockefeller, no Vatican, no leader, nothing, and they're getting sent to the corner. I keep asking for them to be taken away and counseled, I've been shown the comic arrest team and know that is the plan at some point, even if its out of body.

But I really really hope, that before the counseling, the nardings take place. Human enough to say that!


Balls of Steel - The Ultimate Nutshot

Anything that wants a sacrifice, you're timed out, but not without a good narding!

a reply to: jmdewey60

Sure, I'll describe the logic. From the catholic catechism

601 The Scriptures had foretold this divine plan of salvation through the putting to death of "the righteous one, my Servant" as a mystery of universal redemption, that is, as the ransom that would free men from the slavery of sin. 397 Citing a confession of faith that he himself had "received", St. Paul professes that "Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures." 398 In particular Jesus' redemptive death fulfils Isaiah's prophecy of the suffering Servant. 399 Indeed Jesus himself explained the meaning of his life and death in the light of God's suffering Servant. 400 After his Resurrection he gave this interpretation of the Scriptures to the disciples at Emmaus,401

God required a ransom. That ransom was Jesus blood, his death was needed to fulfill Isaiahs prophesy. It was a sacrifice by any other name.

The part I've never bonded with is the need for spilled blood for covenants. Its a personal thing that's all, because Judaism, Christianity and Islam all have blood letting as part of them in one way or another.

a reply to: Unity_99

No human is an acceptable sacrifice to Love and Goodness.

I hope you understand that the "we" in the thread title is a short version, for the sake of space, for our combined good works as a group, the body of Christ, that is metaphorically the equivalent of the Old Testament savory aroma that was produced by the burning of animal fat on the altar.
So I don't mean that people are killed.
We are to be figuratively a living sacrifice.

a reply to: markosity1973

601 The Scriptures had foretold this divine plan of salvation through the putting to death of "the righteous one, my Servant" as a mystery of universal redemption, that is, as the ransom that would free men from the slavery of sin. 397 Citing a confession of faith that he himself had "received", St. Paul professes that "Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures."

It is generally understood by biblical scholars that Paul was probably referring to the Suffering Servant story in Isaiah 53 when he wrote, "in accordance with the scriptures".
This does not mean that Jesus was following a specific set of instructions from the scripture, but that he was killed according to the general concept of the story, a righteous man being undeservedly put to death as a sinner.
According to the New Testament, there was a mystery, but only to those who lived before Jesus' time, and now it is revealed as a past historical event.
There is not still a mystery that only the highest priesthood can understand, where we as ordinary lay persons cannot hope to.
What we have is something easily understood (by anyone who wants to believe it), which is that Jesus, a man in all respects like us (though living a spirit filled life), was upon his death (in all appearances as a sinner), vindicated by God Himself in that he was raised up out of the grave and taken up into heaven.