We are the Offering and Sacrifice to God

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posted on May, 5 2014 @ 03:41 PM
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Ephesians 5:1-2
1 Follow God’s example, therefore, as dearly loved children 2 and walk in the way of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
(2011 NIV)
At first glace it might look as if it is saying that we should love as Jesus loved, where he made himself a sacrifice.
With further examination, it looks more like it is saying something like this:

“Imitate God since He has adopted us.”
“Walk in the way of love as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God, just as Jesus gave himself up (out of love) for us.”

The way to know that this proposed understanding that I just offered is correct is by looking at the parallel verses 25-27 later in this same chapter:

25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27 and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless.
(2011 NIV)

How we as the church live, loving others, is the offering that is the metaphorical parallel to the fat of the lamb that was burnt on the altar as a "pleasing aroma" to make atonement.

There is what I would consider an earlier New Testament example of the use of this type of terminology that is connected to the behavior of a church community, that the writer of Ephesians may have picked up on and decided to use in his own way:

Philippians 4
. . . you sent me aid more than once when I was in need. 17 Not that I desire your gifts; what I desire is that more be credited to your account. 18 I have received full payment and have more than enough. I am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. They are a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God.
(2011 NIV)
edit on 5-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)
edit on 5-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)




posted on May, 5 2014 @ 04:33 PM
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Not until recently did I truly understand those words.

Now all I can say, is such onimous words.

I myself denounce and renounce all sacrifice for only dark side does that.

All offerings of bullocks and lambs and humans and nature to Saturn.

PERIOD!



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 04:49 PM
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a reply to: Unity_99

all offerings of bullocks and lambs and humans and nature to Saturn.
There are two other threads right now that pertain to the problem of some people taking some Bible verses too literally.
I think that some people do that with Jesus and what he did and why, and believe that he was literally just like a sacrificial animal in the Old Testament.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 04:58 PM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Unity_99

all offerings of bullocks and lambs and humans and nature to Saturn.
There are two other threads right now that pertain to the problem of some people taking some Bible verses too literally.
I think that some people do that with Jesus and what he did and why, and believe that he was literally just like a sacrificial animal in the Old Testament.



Jesus was an old skool sacrifice. Why do you think he had so much anxiety that night in the mount of olives? He knew what was coming and experienced a typically human set of emotions beforehand.

I've always struggled with why God needed blood sacrifices in the old testament, but at least we can say Jesus was the last one ever for us Christians. We can offer up other sacrifices for God during our lives though, like when we supposedly give up a food or habit we like in lent, fasting etc.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 05:16 PM
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a reply to: markosity1973

Jesus was an old skool sacrifice.
In what way?

Why do you think he had so much anxiety that night in the mount of olives? He knew what was coming and experienced a typically human set of emotions beforehand.
That is covered by the "gave himself up for us" part of Ephesians 5:1-2.

I've always struggled with why God needed blood sacrifices in the old testament, but at least we can say Jesus was the last one ever for us Christians.
"Blood sacrifices" is a theological term but not a biblical term.

We can offer up other sacrifices for God during our lives though, like when we supposedly give up a food or habit we like in lent, fasting etc.
I think it means sacrificing your own self-interest for someone else's, when they need help, when it is out of compassion for our fellow man.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 07:08 PM
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Anything worth doing takes sacrifice.

God knows that those who are real will sacrifice time, work and even their material lives in the name of charity and good will against the darks. Sacrifice is why we have what we have don't get confused about the word. It does not only mean to kill an animal or man for God.

Just like water can be used for good or for bad, so can sacrifice.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 07:36 PM
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a reply to: jmdewey60


"Blood sacrifices" is a theological term but not a biblical term.


A rose by any other name...



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:23 PM
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a reply to: jmdewey60

As Christians, we are to lay our lives down for Jesus to reflect how He sacrificed Himself for our sins. Whether or not you accept that is your problem, but it doesnt change the fact that Jesus death was for our atonement in accordance to God's Law.
edit on 5-5-2014 by BELIEVERpriest because: typo



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:45 PM
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a reply to: Unity_99

a reply to: Unity_99

True. If a sacrifice is needed (whether it be a human or an animal), that means that the sin was never forgiven since the punishment for sin is death.

We are told that The Heavenly Father desires Mercy and not Sacrifices:


Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.


Jesus talked about The Holy Spirit - The Living Water which washes away sins, not a human or animal sacrifice as a punishment for sins. It is important to Forgive and be Forgiven (Matthew 6:14-15).



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 10:15 PM
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a reply to: BELIEVERpriest

Jesus death was for our atonement in accordance to God's Law.
That is a little vague.
Do you mean "law" as in Leviticus 5, where an animal is burnt on the altar to make make a pleasing fragrance so that a priest can make atonement?

I think that law only serves as a bases for making a metaphor, where Jesus is the priest who presents our loving good works to God which makes Him happy with us and nothing is remembered that would destroy that love God feels towards us.
edit on 5-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 08:58 AM
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Attempting to make sense of a collection of bronze age superstitions is a fools errand, the entire christian story is based on a human sacrificial death just like other primitive and debased cults.



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 09:44 AM
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a reply to: Prezbo369

Attempting to make sense of a collection of bronze age superstitions is a fools errand, the entire christian story is based on a human sacrificial death just like other primitive and debased cults.
"Human sacrificial death" at the time of the founding of Christianity would have been understood in the world of the Roman Empire as a battlefield tactic to entice the enemy to show their hand, and also to get the blood up of your own soldiers to avenge their fallen comrades.
This concept is behind the phrasing of "gave himself up for us".

Now I understand that to an outside observer, Christianity may on the surface appear to be based on primitive religious practices, but that is the result of the activities of the cults who try to spread that misunderstanding as the basis for their "Free Grace" theories that somehow salvation is based on "blood sacrifice" rather than actually being good.
Personally, I see that sort of false gospel as the work of the same enemy that killed Jesus in the first place.



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 09:46 AM
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a reply to: jmdewey60


salvation is based on "blood sacrifice" rather than actually being good.


Your god signed that one when he decided that no sin was too small to be punished with hellfire - and when he deliberately gave us the capacity and planted us in a world full of inclinations. We were set up from the beginning.
edit on 6-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

Your god signed that one when he decided that no sin was too small to be punished with hellfire - and when he deliberately gave us the capacity and planted us in a world full of inclinations. We were set up from the beginning.
1 John 5:16-17 says that there are some sins that do not lead to death.
I would agree that the opportunity has always existed for us to fall but I don't see it as something that was intentionally created.
Jesus in Luke says woe to anyone who places stumbling blocks before the least of these children.
I didn't notice him exempting anyone from that warning, so I think it would apply to God too.
Jesus in this same statement says that it is unavoidable that stumbling blocks do exist.
edit on 6-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 03:22 PM
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a reply to: jmdewey60


I would agree that the opportunity has always existed for us to fall but I don't see it as something that was intentionally created.


In other words, God "accidentally" set us up. Whole different ball of wax, right? Unintentional, therefore entirely forgivable. Sure, I'd be inclined to look at it that way if he didn't then take advantage of our position to extract our loyalty on pain of eternal damnation.



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 05:52 PM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

You are lighting up a strawman in effigy and arguing with ghosts.Yes... you are correct...there is no place that is the eternal punishment of hell and yes...if there is a creator God they do not desire offerings or "sacrifices" of anyone especially Yahoshua..and on and on and on…..Those are all false doctrines of mens religion.None of them are even close to a semblance of truth.They are figments of imaginations of the religious carnal mind.

Yahoshua was killed because the religious leaders of the Jews hated him and what he was saying and doing and who he was.He was not a "sacrificial lamb" with magical blood to appease a blood thirsty God of anger.Those are perverted childish fantasies.

You are correct those who believe those things are dead wrong however there is NOTHING you can say or do to change their mind.The sooner you quit acknowledging any of the foolishness the religious spew the better off you will be.Taunting them is futile and unproductive.The only honest thing you can do is present truth that exposes the lies of "what" they believe however that will not change their mind one bit.It will only make them hate you more without a cause.In the end Truth is all that matters.My suggestion is stay with that and leave out the rest of the unnecessary.



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 06:19 PM
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a reply to: Rex282

It will only make them hate you more without a cause.
Hopefully there aren't any people like that on ATS.
I think that the hard core base, those who invent the stuff to be pushed out into the mainstream, are not going to be around discussing it where there could be the possibility of anyone disagreeing with them.



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 06:59 PM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

I'd be inclined to look at it that way if he didn't then take advantage of our position to extract our loyalty on pain of eternal damnation.
I don't personally see it that way.
Maybe if there is someone on the forum who does, they might want to take that up with you.
The New Testament describes it in terms of being lost.
So it is not like God is hunting you down to punish you.
Nature takes its course, and something happens to you where you loose sight of God, and those He has gathered around Him.
Matthew 10:28
Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
(2011 NIV)
It says "the One" with the O capitalized as if it is a title, and may be thought of by the translators as a reference to God, but it is just the general definite article in Greek, that is interpreted that way.
I would see it as a personification of the process inherent to the universe's nature.
The Greek word here translated as "destroy" could mean to loose. According to the verb form and the context, it could mean a power to make lost.

edit on 6-5-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 07:44 PM
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a reply to: jmdewey60


So it is not like God is hunting you down to punish you


Of course not. He personally built the kill switch, the "Instant Win" button.


It says "the One" with the O capitalized as if it is a title, and may be thought of by the translators as a reference to God, but it is just the general definite article in Greek, that is interpreted that way.
I would see it as a personification of the process inherent to the universe's nature.
The Greek word here translated as "destroy" could mean to loose. According to the verb form and the context, it could mean a power to make lost.


I don't see what that has to do with anything.
edit on 6-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 08:49 PM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

Of course not. He personally built the kill switch, the "Instant Win" button.
Sort of a dreadful analysis of the universe, if you think that somehow every detail of it was planned to be exactly that way, ahead of time.
I think that the Bible teaches the concept of overcoming the world.

I don't see what that has to do with anything.
Do you have a better Bible verse to support your position that God wants to destroy us?





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