How parts of Britain are now poorer than POLAND with families in Wales and Cornwall among Europe's

I was forwarded a link to this article and feel that it shows all too well the gross unevenness in wealth distribution and affluence in the UK and the all too evident dominant nature of the London centrism within the UK that actively stifles many of the regions outside of London and the Home Counties.

I am the last person who could be described as a typical Daily Mail reader and I'm hardly a supporter of the EU from which the information was originally sourced through its Eurostat agency, but some things simply are what they appear to be free from whatever spin anyone wishes to attach to it.

This article clearly shows that several regions within the UK are amongst the poorest in the whole of the EU.
www.dailymail.co.uk...
Personally this comes as no surprise to me but its really quite alarming when presented in such a manner.
And I find it disgraceful that such inequalities exist today or that a nation that is either the 6th or 8th wealthiest in the world depending on which metric is used to measure such things could allow such a disparity.

Cornwall and West Wales have an average wage of 36% below the EU average.
I live in the Durham and Tees Valley area and the average income here is 29% below the EU average.
This is at a time where standards are rising rapidly in many Eastern European regions.
And what makes it even worse is that Inner London has an average income of 321% above the EU average - the highest of any region within the EU.

These two graphics show the disparity quite clearly.





I think Chris Leslie in the article sums it up;
"No other European country would tolerate such a gap between its rich and poor regions.
'To allow so many parts of the country to fall behind not only London, but most of Europe, is shocking. We've got to take more action to have balanced prosperity.
'The challenge of the next few years is to help these parts of the country that have been left neglected."

Before anyone try's to accuse me of pushing some sort of Labour driven agenda let me state quite clearly that this is as much as a result of New Labour's failings as it has been due to various Conservative administrations policies.

Power needs to be stripped away from London and handed to the regions.
We need to abandon the party political merry go round that hinders this country and politicians of all persuasions need to rally together in the common cause of addressing these gross inequalities and turning the United Kingdom into something we can all be proud of.

Some of the greatest achievements in the UK occurred during the post-war period when people united in the common cause of improving the lot of the British people. And it worked. But ever since the sixities those advancements have slowly been eroded and we now have the situation where greed and profit above anything and everything is the accepted norm.

If we are to stop this decline and inequality then we need to act now before we reach some sort of tipping point.

i cannot agree more with your comments . i am from southwest durham , my wages today are less than 10 years ago , i have seen so many factories close in my area ,there is nothing left and i mean nothing ,the pitts are gone , the steel works ,everything . nice to see you had the balls to bring this to the attention of the masses ,cheers fella

I'm on the south east coast.
Finding a job for more than the minimum wage is all but impossible. Most job vacancies are split into three 15 hour jobs making it almost impossible to dig oneself out of poverty.

Corrupt from top to bottom!

Most of the isle of wight is dirt poor as well and its impossible to find work on the island and the ferry is one of the most expensive in the world making commuting pointless.

so even in those richer counties there are still huge inequalities.

Tax the rich, which the British have done in earnest since the end of WW II, and you, too, can be poor. If the rich don't have discretionary money to invest, they don't, and who wants to invest in a decaying economy anyway? Investing in rust isn't cost-effective. Unintended consequences: Britain has found them. Hurry, USA, and catch up! Prove your Anglophilia! Tax the rich! Then we can all have nothing together! Equality at last!

most people outside london know it but you,ll never convince any politician of it.

as long as its working in the boundaries of london they don,t care about the rest of us.

a reply to: schuyler

Tax the rich, which the British have done in earnest since the end of WW II, and you, too, can be poor. If the rich don't have discretionary money to invest, they don't, and who wants to invest in a decaying economy anyway?

The rich aren't over taxed in the UK - far from it.
And the wealthy elite have ample 'discretionary money' to invest, which they do, with the single purpose of accruing even more wealth. But they refuse to invest in the things that matter like the infrastructure or industry that provides well paying jobs that enables people to spend more in the economy.
Money is either being drained out of the country or the wealthiest insist on sitting on top of gross amounts of money whilst doing absolutely nothing constructive whatsoever.

The reality is that the manufacturing base of the country has been run down to the point of it being almost non-existent. We have become a nation of service providers.
In addition, with the introduction of the minimum wage previous well paid jobs now pay minimum wage - profit goes up as labour costs go down.

We have seen the advent of the criminal zero hour contract, something many employers use and abuse to maximise profits at the expense of workers rights.

Britain has enormous amounts of wealth - wealth that could and should be used to improve standards and conditions for all of its people and not just a select few and those from London and the surrounding regions.

originally posted by: schuyler
Tax the rich, which the British have done in earnest since the end of WW II, and you, too, can be poor. If the rich don't have discretionary money to invest, they don't, and who wants to invest in a decaying economy anyway? Investing in rust isn't cost-effective. Unintended consequences: Britain has found them. Hurry, USA, and catch up! Prove your Anglophilia! Tax the rich! Then we can all have nothing together! Equality at last!

Are you trying to be serious?

The rich of the U.K. are taking the piss

www.theguardian.com...

a reply to: dhl1058

Welcome to ATS.
Seems like you're a very close neighbour of mine.

Its hard to explain to people just how desperate it is and how things have changed so dramatically.
A whole way of life has changed - communities destroyed or condemned to a life of hopelessness.

a reply to: Freeborn

The cause of this is extremely simple:

House price inflation.

The excessive cost of having to put a roof over your head in the UK is the sole and only reason behind this.

The only winners are bankers and politicians.

Unfortunately 95% of the uk population are far to apathetic and dumb to realise this.

MR

a reply to: VoidHawk

a reply to: monkofmimir

I must admit that there's a bit of a mis-conception here in the hinterlands of the North East about life in 'the south'.

Just as many southerners perceive us as flat-cap wearing, whippet racing, Brown Ale drinking Neanderthals many here stereotype all Southerners as silver spoon fed, toffee nosed public school boy spoilt brats or Harry Enfield like 'Loadsamoney' pricks - the realities are quite different.

The London centric nature of UK society is dragging this country down.

We get reports of house prices increasing.
So what?
How is that relevant to the poor buggers who are getting their houses repossessed because they can't afford the mortgage or can't afford the obscenely high private rental fees.
And its all driven from London and the affluent surrounding Home Counties.

But I recognise that there is disparity there too.
The gap between the have's and the have not's is increasing all the time to levels not seen since Victorian times and beyond.

As a nation we are regressing.

a reply to: Marlborough Red

The cause of this is extremely simple: House price inflation. The excessive cost of having to put a roof over your head in the UK is the sole and only reason behind this.

Its certainly a major contributory factor.

Since the sell off of council houses began and the refusal to replace them with new affordable social housing house prices have soared. And its become something of a national obsession.

A simple boon to the economy; nationwide social house building projects renovating existing rundown properties or building new ones. Sell them or rent out at affordable prices. Retrain unemployed in suitable trades to provide the workforce.
Takes people off the dole and out of the benefit system, provides decent paid employment and affordable accommodation. With the added benefit of leaving more discernible income to be spent in the economy.

Its really pretty simple.

Of course it won't cure all of this country's ills - but it'd be a positive start.

ETA

The only winners are bankers and politicians.

The bankers, corporate bosses, politicians, Judiciary, Senior Civil Servants / Police etc form an immoral alliance that govern this nation.

Unfortunately 95% of the uk population are far to apathetic and dumb to realise this.

All part of the plan.

originally posted by: Freeborn
Just as many southerners perceive us as flat-cap wearing, whippet racing, Brown Ale drinking Neanderthals many here stereotype all Southerners as silver spoon fed, toffee nosed public school boy spoilt brats or Harry Enfield like 'Loadsamoney' pricks - the realities are quite different.

All part of the - divide and keep them conquered routine, as I'm sure you know.
There are a lot of the rich and famous who live down here, but they are a very small minority.


I've lived down south all my life. Up until the mid 70's most who had work (and you could find it back then) could live more or less comfortably, not rich, but we could keep the dogs from the door.
Since then its been a steady decline. As a lorry driver I used to earn a reasonable wage, but due to the import of tens of thousands of foriegn lorry drivers I'm stuck with minumum wage, and thats only if I can find work! I'm not knocking the foriegners, I'd do the same if I was them, its the system, its corrupt to the core!

The last two factory jobs my friend has done in Lancashire she says she has been OUTNUMBERED by the amount of polish people. So outnumbered that instead of speaking English at work, they happily just communicate in polish... Employer's prefer employing foreigner's because they want absolute slaves who are afraid of losing their jobs if they don't do exactly what they're told.

And i bet were paying thousands in benefits to their children in poland. Our school systems and health care system's are also suffering due to the large influx of people over the last 10 years.

a reply to: Freeborn

S&F Freeborn.
I can't express my views any better than you have already done, and I'd applaud some of your posts if I could. Money talks in the UK, that's for sure. Aberdeen and London- oil and banks. Centralisation benefits the few, the rest can rot -the message is loud and clear in Britain.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: schuyler

The rich aren't over taxed in the UK - far from it.
And the wealthy elite have ample 'discretionary money' to invest, which they do, with the single purpose of accruing even more wealth. But they refuse to invest in the things that matter like the infrastructure or industry that provides well paying jobs that enables people to spend more in the economy.
Money is either being drained out of the country or the wealthiest insist on sitting on top of gross amounts of money whilst doing absolutely nothing constructive whatsoever.

And it's their money to do with as they please. Or should I throw a hissy fit because you've got 75p in your piggy bank that you should be giving to the starving children in Africa? Let me guess, theft is fine as long as you're the one doing the stealing? And before you say it, no those evil 1%s didn't steal the money in the first place.

That aside, you need to look at what you wrote. It answers itself. These people want to make money. They are no investing in the UK. That means... there is no money to be made from investing in the UK. The answer to this isn't to make the UK even more appealing by stealing from them so you can buy a bigger flatscreen TV which you clearly deserve by virtue of... I don't know, "existing" seems to be the reason as far as I can tell... but instead the UK should be made a more attractive place to invest. That's a matter of scaling back government intervention and financial burdens, not increasing them.

European immigrants are heavily represented in some industries not because they are mindless robots willing to take instructions, but because they are prepared to work for the money offered. They don't share this prevailing English attitude that you don't have a "quality of life" unless you can wipe your arse with £50 notes. Those Polish people that others in the thread are denigrating are doing more positive things for our economy than the people sitting around and whining about it. God Bless the immigrants, they currently represent our best chance at recovery.

When you artificially inflate wages, you cause costs to increase and prices to increase. The buying power of your newly increased wages drops (because things are now more expensive) so... you artificially inflate wages, causing costs to increase and prices to increase. The buying power of your newly increase wages drops (because things are now more expensive) so... well, you can probably guess how the rest of it goes. On and on into the decrepit spiral of Socialism whose sole goal to is to make everyone's life equally awful.

originally posted by: Freeborn
The rich aren't over taxed in the UK - far from it.

Indeed - Bernie Eccelstone being the latest, shining example of "doing a deal" with HMRC which meant he paid much less than the £1 Billion he apparently owed. If only we could "do deals" with HMRC, hey?

originally posted by: Freeborn
And the wealthy elite have ample 'discretionary money' to invest, which they do, with the single purpose of accruing even more wealth. But they refuse to invest in the things that matter like the infrastructure or industry that provides well paying jobs that enables people to spend more in the economy.

That's a bit of a generalisation there, Freeborn - there is ample investment going on in the UK that has been announced over the past year - Hitachi move Rail business to UK, Siemens move Offshore construction to UK, Chinese investment in UK Nuclear power, not to mention a massive amount of investment ongoing in the Highways, Railways- the Governments National Infrastructure Plan. For example, only a few miles of railway were electrified under Labour, thousands of miles are being done now, not to mention the upgrades on the mainlines as well as HS2. Then we have the Governments announcement last week of hundreds of billions for science investment over the next few years.

originally posted by: Freeborn
The reality is that the manufacturing base of the country has been run down to the point of it being almost non-existent. We have become a nation of service providers.
In addition, with the introduction of the minimum wage previous well paid jobs now pay minimum wage - profit goes up as labour costs go down.

Again, that isn't exactly true chap - manufacturing is rising faster than any other sector in the economy and currently makes up just shy of 10% of total GDP (in some area's, this can be as high as almost 14%), around £150 Billion a year and is growing very fast. Yes, it has been properly buggered over the past decades, but I genuinely believe that things have turned a corner and we are world leaders in hi-tech manufacturing.

originally posted by: Freeborn
We have seen the advent of the criminal zero hour contract, something many employers use and abuse to maximise profits at the expense of workers rights.

This is one side of the spin, yes. Only 16% of those on those contracts complain about not getting enough hours - quite what "enough" means is not clarified in the CIPD survey - the rest do. They are beneficial to large swathes of the population - my missus is on one and it gives her flexibility in when to work which is good for childcare and such.

Also, there are only 600k people on them out of a total workforce of 22 Million (3%). Not as widespread as Labour would have you believe.

originally posted by: Freeborn
Britain has enormous amounts of wealth - wealth that could and should be used to improve standards and conditions for all of its people and not just a select few and those from London and the surrounding regions.

Indeed and I do generally agree that the wealth needs to be spread out better than the current aggregation in London. I believe HS2 is one way of helping with this, which is why I have let my local MP John Redwood (who recently rebelled against HS2 on "environmental grounds") what I think of him.

However, it should be pointed out that the source article is the Daily Mail who are prone to "exaggeration", shall we say. They always focus on the bad points - and then spin that to high heaven - while all the good news gets buried. I bet a good deal on this forum who complain about "manufacturing going", or "lack of investment" are simply not aware of what is going on - there is plenty to shout about, but no-one does, it's always doom and gloom.

Pure and simply, I think it is the old problem of people have very short memories. We have just come out the other side of the worst economic downturn for 100 years and are still feeling the hangover - that said, the economy is on the verge of a boom, investment has never been higher and the future looks bright, however it takes time to get things going. Most companies and investors were not willing to take a risk 18-24 months ago but are now, but we have to wait for those projects to have an effect before we all commit mass suicide.

a reply to: Freeborn

It's probably also worth pointing out that those figures are not that reliable when you don't delve into them. The "inequality" in earnings is larger in the UK because the opportunity is there to earn a fortune, whereas such a thing in Poland or Bulgaria is impossible - everyone is poor.

The article doesn't address this, which is a common mistake when looking at "average" earnings and just accepting the figures at face value. It is also telling that they don't offer a comparable breakdown of the wealth gap in countries such as France, Germany or other wealthy states. It does highlight that of the 10 richest cities, only one from the UK is there and is closely followed by other large, EU financial centres.

a reply to: stumason

You hit it on the head with the term 'financial centre' because those who work and control finances and earn the highest salaries live in these cities or commute into them, so everything has to be of an acceptable standard to the sophisticated who can afford them and damn the rest.

Another problem in the UK is the unfair manner in which Council tax is collected by London/parliament and then only a proportion of the money collected from the locals, goes back into the areas it has been collected from. I suspect London benefits far more from the pot than any other area. Were we to keep the money collected more of it could be put to work in the areas to improve facilities and attract more business to the outer areas. Things lnecessary such as more training where work is needed would then be available at a reasonable cost. This will never happen all the time policy purely protects the City of London and the wealthy there only. If you look at projects like the last Olympics, how many businesses outside of London actually benefitted from that huge expense which the ordinary people paid for. Unless one goes to London, which many can't afford to do, the services left can't be used and enjoyed except by Londoners.

I have seen statistics where the income from the City is supposed to be almost double that of our manufacturing and other income related businesses. However, how much of that income goes to asset stripping, insurance abroad and other benefits that clearly do not go down to the people of this country. I appreciate the likes of the wealthy have to keep their money somewhere but the financial market is the biggest let down for the ordinary people in the world. Most would prefer jobs that paid a decent wage they could live off and the City does not have this aim in sight.

a reply to: Shiloh7

On the point of Council Tax, it is entirely collected by the Local Authority - they then receive a block grant from central Government. You may be thinking of Business rates....