It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

U.S. Supreme Court Ruling: Atheists Lose...Again.

page: 31
33
<< 28  29  30    32  33  34 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on May, 12 2014 @ 08:18 AM
link   
a reply to: SuperFrog

i'd offer up a prayer to the lords of kobol....it'd be totally frakin' disingenuous, but it'd prove a point, i guess...




posted on May, 12 2014 @ 06:43 PM
link   
Letter to the Danbury Baptists


To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.
Gentlemen
The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 07:44 PM
link   

originally posted by: rickynews


No surprise there, as one would expect it to not go over well. Why? Because although they may indeed have a legal right, there is also push-back from the majority. So, the question comes down to, is it worth the push-back to exercise your Freedom of Speech or Freedom to Religion practices in public? That choice is up to the ones who want exercise their legal rights.


The real question may be how often your "push-back" majority wants to get arrested. And how bad they will look shouting down someone else's Freedom of Speech or Freedom to Religion.



posted on May, 12 2014 @ 09:44 PM
link   

originally posted by: tsingtao

originally posted by: gusdynamite
a reply to: Daedalus

Logic isn't here today, priest.



hey, spin your head around!


I'd be willing to bet some of the members posting in this thread probably think I can!



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 01:26 PM
link   

originally posted by: gusdynamite
I'd be willing to bet some of the members posting in this thread probably think I can!


And I would bet that they would offer help to make it spin in case it does not - based on historical facts and methods of those associated with religion...








posted on May, 13 2014 @ 06:48 PM
link   
a reply to: Daedalus

Well, since a theory is something that has yet to be proven then your right it is not a belief. However, a belief doesn't need to be proven so it is not a theory either, it is only a theory to the skeptic.



posted on May, 13 2014 @ 07:49 PM
link   
a reply to: bitsforbytes

and beliefs are based on theories. i'm sure you'll just argue some more because you refuse to accept that your belief is anything other than absolute fact, so whatever...you go have fun with that...



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 07:42 AM
link   

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: rickynews

Satanists? what If their are many faiths do they do it at the same time?.
What If some new agers want to kill a goat or something still fine with you?.
(BTW not saying new agers kill goats just an example).


The reality is that although both myself and the overwhelming majority of Americans would find it repugnant, if they are an American, then they have the right to pray in public - whoever they pray to. Same with burning an American flag. As much as both I and the majority of Americans find such conduct to be reprehensible, it remains a right under Freedom of Speech for all Americans.

IMO, as for satanists, I would't expect such anytime soon... They know better ... in that although they may have a "legal right", the popular pushback would be so great that they would not even get off the ground. Why? Because the majority of Americans are those of Christian and Jewish faith - and although minority religions do indeed have the same rights as the majority religions, the majority's will is going to be the prevailing sentiment. I realize that may not be what some prefer, but in these United States of America, it is the reality, indeed. In other words, back to the burring of the American Flag example - even though Americans have the right to burn an American Flag in the public square, it is rarely ever done - why? Mainly because of the immense pushback by patriotic Americans who find it to be grossly offensive. Same is and would be the case with satanists attempting rituals at town council meetings or in the public square.


WOW did you just say in the same post that Christians praying in public is ok because it is the majority belief, but it's not ok for Satanists to do because they are a minority belief? THIS is what freedom of religious expression IS! Not being able to pray at a state function, but the ability to practice your religion freely no matter WHAT it is or WHAT the public thinks about it. You are a shining example of why that amendment was written into the Bill of Rights. You obviously also don't understand it correctly.


I was making the distinction between one's legal rights, and the popular majority's push-back. In other words, flag-burners or satanists for example may have a legal right to burn flags or do rituals, whereby they aren't breaking the law nor going to wind up in jail - but they don't often burn flags or do their rituals openly, much less in the public square, for fear of majority's reaction and push-back.
edit on 14-5-2014 by rickynews because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 09:04 AM
link   
a reply to: rickynews

GIven this overwhelming Majority of homogeneous unified Christianity, it makes it really hard for me to understand how Christians EVERYWHERE in the US are being oppressed and held down at every turn, how Christmas and Easter are constantly under siege, how Christians are deprived of their God-given rights to pray, discriminate based only on their beliefs, etc ... I really fail to see how all that is possible in this country where, apparently, just about everyone (or everyone who really matters, anyway) is Christian.

Amazing how God works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform, huh?

(Oh, and if anyone missed it ... /sarcasm /irony /snark /hyperbole /moresarcasm /etc )



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 09:29 AM
link   

originally posted by: Gryphon66
a reply to: rickynews

GIven this overwhelming Majority of homogeneous unified Christianity, it makes it really hard for me to understand how Christians EVERYWHERE in the US are being oppressed and held down at every turn, how Christmas and Easter are constantly under siege, how Christians are deprived of their God-given rights to pray, discriminate based only on their beliefs, etc ... I really fail to see how all that is possible in this country where, apparently, just about everyone (or everyone who really matters, anyway) is Christian.

Amazing how God works in mysterious ways, his wonders to perform, huh?

(Oh, and if anyone missed it ... /sarcasm /irony /snark /hyperbole /moresarcasm /etc )


You sound like an angry atheist.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 09:32 AM
link   
a reply to: rickynews

and you sound like someone who's evading...



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 09:47 AM
link   
a reply to: rickynews

I would rather live in a country where different religious groups, non religious groups and the government can go round and round over the religion question rather than living in a country where only one religion is allowed, questioning the religious doctrine as well as the governments position on it are a death sentence.

So long as Atheists can challenge religion and vice versa without involving people being beheaded or hanged then our Constitution is working and is alive and well.

A Question to anyone -
At what point in the history of religion did it ever require mass celebrations be held in public? Does religion require a holiday in order for people to worship? Even if the Christmas shopping season were canceled it would not mean people cannot still celebrate Christmas or attend mass.

To the Atheists - Religious issues aside, does it really matter if businesses decide to participate economically during major holidays?

The requirement established is - The government cannot pass a law establishing a national religion. There is nothing in the Constitution that states "separation of church and state".

What occurs inside a church is no ones business but the people who attend.
What occurs at businesses during those times are up to the people running those companies.
What an atheist does during the season is their business, as is their choice in which businesses they will shop at and why.

I know people who are recovering alcoholics who shop in stores that also sell alcohol. I don't see them suing in order to have the alcohol removed.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 09:48 AM
link   

originally posted by: rickynews
a reply to: SuperFrog

If American-muslims wish to open a town council meeting with a prayer, then they are fee to do so. Same with those of the Jewish faith, and the Christian faith. Again, this is not a "Christian " ruling. It is a Freedom of Religion ruling for All Americans.



Yeah right it's not a Christian thing. Let one of these meetings be opened with a Muslim prayer and your little FOX news will be crying we are under Sharia law. Jews don't try to force their religion into our government and the Muslims don't either it is always the Christians that try to force their faith on our government.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 09:54 AM
link   

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: rickynews

Satanists? what If their are many faiths do they do it at the same time?.
What If some new agers want to kill a goat or something still fine with you?.
(BTW not saying new agers kill goats just an example).


The reality is that although both myself and the overwhelming majority of Americans would find it repugnant, if they are an American, then they have the right to pray in public - whoever they pray to. Same with burning an American flag. As much as both I and the majority of Americans find such conduct to be reprehensible, it remains a right under Freedom of Speech for all Americans.

IMO, as for satanists, I would't expect such anytime soon... They know better ... in that although they may have a "legal right", the popular pushback would be so great that they would not even get off the ground. Why? Because the majority of Americans are those of Christian and Jewish faith - and although minority religions do indeed have the same rights as the majority religions, the majority's will is going to be the prevailing sentiment. I realize that may not be what some prefer, but in these United States of America, it is the reality, indeed. In other words, back to the burring of the American Flag example - even though Americans have the right to burn an American Flag in the public square, it is rarely ever done - why? Mainly because of the immense pushback by patriotic Americans who find it to be grossly offensive. Same is and would be the case with satanists attempting rituals at town council meetings or in the public square.


WOW did you just say in the same post that Christians praying in public is ok because it is the majority belief, but it's not ok for Satanists to do because they are a minority belief? THIS is what freedom of religious expression IS! Not being able to pray at a state function, but the ability to practice your religion freely no matter WHAT it is or WHAT the public thinks about it. You are a shining example of why that amendment was written into the Bill of Rights. You obviously also don't understand it correctly.


I was making the distinction between one's legal rights, and the popular majority's push-back. In other words, flag-burners or satanists for example may have a legal right to burn flags or do rituals, whereby they aren't breaking the law nor going to wind up in jail - but they don't often burn flags or do their rituals openly, much less in the public square, for fear of majority's reaction and push-back.


And you see nothing wrong with that? If a bunch of Christians tried to pray in a town square and a bunch of non-Christians came and forced them out, it would make national news with Christians everywhere demanding religious freedom of expression. Yet here you are saying that it is ok for a majority of Christians to suppress Satanic praying just because they are the majority.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 09:54 AM
link   
a reply to: Xcathdra


The requirement established is - The government cannot pass a law establishing a national religion.

You have it wrong. It says Congress shall not pass a law respecting the establishment of religion.


What occurs inside a church is no ones business but the people who attend.

You are right because that is where religion belongs not in a government meeting.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 09:59 AM
link   


WAS ATHEISM IN PART RESPONSIBLE FOR THE CRIMES OF COMMUNISM?
A major atheist (Richard Dawkins, I believe) was interviewed not long ago on a national station. During the interview, he was asked to justify the evils perpetrated on tens of millions by the atheist leader, Stalin. The atheist’s response was that the connection between Stalin’s atheism and his great crimes is unfounded. Stalin, he said, had mustaches; could you not use the same logic, he added, and conclude that he killed people because he had mustaches?
The atheist’s response is foolish to such a magnitude that it is not really deserving of an answer. Nonetheless, for the sake of fairness, we will endeavor to assess his objection.
Was the philosophy of atheism, espoused by communists, responsible for the mass murders perpetrated by communist leaders such as Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot and Ceausescu? Let's look at some enlightening facts that militant atheists prefer not to acknowledge.
1. Communists leaders were motivated by a strong desire to impose an ideological "package" over the whole world. The package included the eradication of Religion, defined by arch-atheist, Karl Marx, as “The opium of the people.” According to Marx, Religion helped keep the masses passive before the abuse of the wealthy and powerful, and the only way to free them from the “stupor," God and Religion had to be eradicated. Lenin embraced Marx's views and so did Stalin, up to the Second World war. The enforcement of Atheism was a critical requirement for Communism’s success, and, thus, it had to be implemented at all costs. This meant oppressive measures, such as brainwashing in state schools, the closing of houses of worship and arresting countless religious leaders. (For an enlightening discussion of atheistic-vcommunism's persecution of the Christian Church, see the article, Persecution of Christians in the Soviet Union.)
2. Karl Marx’s extremist followers were not, in any way, impeded in their blood-thirsty global quest by fear of a Higher Power. Atheism took very efficient care of this “limiting factor.” Since the end justified the means, as Machiavelli had instructed, they could do whatever was necessary to bring about a workers’ paradise. Because the opposition in some cases proved to be powerful and resilient, drastic means were used. Large numbers were killed for refusing to abandon their religious beliefs. A great many were sent to concentration camps. (For an enlightening, first-hand account of suppression of Religion and other "enemies" of atheistic-cin Russia, please read, The Gulag Archipelago, by Alexander Solzhenitsyn -- especially Chapter 2.)
3. Communist-atheist leaders, in their own eyes, became supreme, all-knowing, all-wise and all powerful "gods." They had total control over people’s lives and over who lived and who died. Being "gods," they asserted their evil schemes over the masses with brutality and mercilessness.
4. People like Stalin were interested in propagating an ideology, not a look. Nobody was persecuted in the Soviet Union for not having a mustache like Stalin, or for not wearing a uniform similar to his, or for not liking the same food, music or sports. Large numbers were persecuted and killed for practicing religion, and for being interferences to atheist-communist expansion. Now some would retort that Stalin had a change of heart during the Second World War and that he recognized and elevated anew the Russian Orthodox Church. This is a historically correct statement, but in no way does it indicate that Stalin moved toward theism. The move was strictly utilitarian. Steven Merritt Miner in his work Stalin's Holy War informs us that Stalin had ulterior motives behind the move.
Moscow's religious policy at this time can only be understood in the context of Soviet security considerations, especially Moscow's concerns about the disaffection of non-Russian nationalities. The Kremlin saw the church not only, and perhaps not even primarily, as a tool for mobilizing and harnessing Russian nationalism throughout the union, but rather as one of several instruments for countering and disarming non-Russian, and anti-Soviet, nationalism. As most tsars could have told Stalin, the Russian Orthodox Church was an effective agent for the Russification of the ethnically diverse and contentious western regions. [1]
This move, though seemingly noble, did not neutralize or excuse his heinous actions toward countless Christians and Muslims who were killed, so as to facilitate the spread of Stalin's atheistic-communistic ideology.
Militant atheism, therefore, was a major factor in the murder of countless millions, during the past century. Unfortunately, militant atheism, is still driven by some of the same extremist views reminiscent of atheist-communist regimes of old. They, like their predecessors, do not hesitate to admit that they hate God, Rand that they would like to see both disappear forever. Furthermore, they are driven by a hatred for the unborn, and a blind support for common-law living, sexual immorality, euthanasia, etc.
The understandable concern of many is that a propagation of their philosophy of meaninglessness and their blind allegiance to atheistic evolution would lead, in the long run, to a return to a cold-hearted and dangerous devaluing of the weak and the needy in society; though they assure us that that is not part of their agenda. We believe that their cold-heartiness toward millions of unborn babies, and their total support of euthanasia indicates otherwise.
Theist author, Dinesh D'Souza, eloquently expresses similar concerns in the following quote:
The crimes of atheism have generally been perpetrated through a hubristic ideology that sees man, not God, as the creator of values. Using the latest techniques of science and technology, man seeks to displace God and create a secular utopia here on earth. Of course if some people - the Jews, the landowners, the unfit, or the handicapped - have to be eliminated in order to achieve this utopia, this is a price the atheist tyrants and their apologists have shown themselves quite willing to pay. Thus they confirm the truth of Fyodor Dostoyevsky's dictum, "If God is not, everything is permitted.
That is the kind of world we must strive to prevent. That is the kind of world this site, and many others like it, are determined to combat.


Source: atheismexposed.tripod.com...



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 10:04 AM
link   



Source: www.simpletoremember.com...

God not so dead: Atheism in decline worldwide
Gurat, France – There seems to be a growing consensus around the globe that godlessness is in trouble.
“Atheism as a theoretical position is in decline worldwide,” Munich theologian Wolfhart Pannenberg told United Press International Tuesday.
His Oxford colleague Alister McGrath agrees. Atheism’s “future seems increasingly to lie in the private beliefs of individuals rather than in the great public domain it once regarded as its habitat,” he wrote in the U.S. magazine, Christianity Today.
Two developments are plaguing atheism these days. One is that it appears to be losing its scientific underpinnings. The other is the historical experience of hundreds of millions of people worldwide that atheists are in no position to claim the moral high ground.
Writes Turkish philosopher Harun Yahya, “Atheism, which people have tried to for hundreds of years as ‘the ways of reason and science,’ is proving to be mere irrationality and ignorance.”
As British philosopher Anthony Flew, once as hard-nosed a humanist as any, mused when turning his back on his former belief: It is, for example, impossible for evolution to account for the fact than one single cell can carry more data than all the volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannica put together.
Flew still does not accept the God of the Bible. But he has embraced the intelligent design concept of scholars such as William Dembski who only four years ago claimed to have been mobbed by pro-evolutionist colleagues at – of all places – Baylor University, a highly respected Southern Baptist institution in Waco, Tex.
The stunning desertion of a former intellectual ambassador of secular humanism to the belief in some form of intelligence behind the design of the universe makes Yahya’s prediction sound probable: “The time is fast approaching when many people who are living in ignorance with no knowledge of their Creator will be graced by faith in the impending post-atheist world.”
A few years ago, European scientists s'n-word'ed when studies in the United States – for example, at Harvard and Duke universities – showed a correlation between faith, prayer and recovery from illness. Now 1,200 studies at research centers around the world have come to similar conclusions, according to “Psychologie Heute,” a German journal, citing, for example, the marked improvement of multiple sclerosis patients in Germany’s Ruhr District due to “spiritual resources.”
Atheism’s other Achilles heel are the acts on inhumanity and lunacy committed in its name. As McGrath relates in Christianity Today: “With time (atheism) turned out to have just as many frauds, psychopaths, and careerists as religion does. ... With Stalin and Madalyn Murray O’Hair, atheism seems to have ended up mimicking the vices of the Spanish Inquisition and the worst televangelists, respectively.”
John Updike’s observation, “Among the repulsions of atheism for me has been is drastic uninterestingness as an intellectual position,” appears to become common currency throughout much of the West. The Rev. Paul M. Zulehner, dean of Vienna University’s divinity school and one of the world’s most distinguished sociologists of religion, told UPI Tuesday: “True atheists in Europe have become an infinitesimally small group. There are not enough of them to be used for sociological research.”
The only exceptions to this rule, Zulehner said, are the former East Germany and the Czech Republic, where, as the saying goes, de-Christianization has been the only proven success of these regions’ former communist rulers.
Zulehner cautions, however, that in the rest of Europe re-Christianization is by no means occurring. “What we are observing instead is a re-paganization,” he went on, and this worries Christian theologians such as Munich’s Pannenberg and the Rev. Gerald McDermott, an Episcopal priest and professor of religion and philosophy at Roanoke College in Salem, Va.
For although in every major European city except Paris spirituality is booming, according to Zulehner, this only proves the emergence of a diffuse belief system, Pannenberg said, but not the revitalization of traditional Christian religious faith.
Observing a similar phenomenon in the United States, McDermott stated that the “rise of all sorts of paganism is creating a false spirituality that proves to be a more dangerous rival to the Christian faith than atheism.”
After all, a Satanist is also “spiritual.”
Pannenberg, a Lutheran, praised the Roman Catholic Church for handling this peril more wisely than many of his fellow Protestants. “The Catholics stick to the central message of Christianity without making any concessions in the ethical realm,” he said, referring to issues such as same-sex “marriages” and abortion.
In a similar vain, Zulehner, a Catholic, sees Christianity’s greatest opportunity when its message addresses two seemingly irreconcilable quests of contemporary humanity - the quest for freedom and truth. “Christianity alone affirms that truth and God’s dependability are inseparable properties to which freedom is linked.”
As for the “peril of spirituality,” Zulehner sounded quite sanguine. He concluded from his research that in the long run the survival of worldviews should be expected to follow this lineup:
“The great world religions are best placed,” he said. As a distant second he sees the diffuse forms of spirituality. Atheism, he insisted, will come in at the tail end.

edit on 14-5-2014 by rickynews because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 10:24 AM
link   
a reply to: rickynews
Hitler was a Catholic. So going by your "logic" all Catholics want to be mass murders. Simply because the people that started Communism were atheist doesn't mean all atheist are communist. This is the same ignorance that was being passed around when they forced in God we trust to be put on our money and the Pledge of Allegiance to be changed.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 10:29 AM
link   
a reply to: rickynews

Okay.

Please explain to the angry atheist how the Christian Majority in the US is constantly being oppressed and discriminated against.



posted on May, 14 2014 @ 10:32 AM
link   


Rickynews,

Did you just post a blog as source of your proof that atheism is in trouble, while all polls show it is actually religion and belief into God that is on loosing stake...

Take a look at Gallup Poll - religion.



LOL

edit on 14-5-2014 by SuperFrog because: (no reason given)



new topics

top topics



 
33
<< 28  29  30    32  33  34 >>

log in

join