U.S. Supreme Court Ruling: Atheists Lose...Again.

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: rickynews

Thing is plenty of people find God without religion and the rubbish that goes with it.
I believe in God but I do not want religion in state affairs nor education classes nor would I vote for anyone who asks God what to do.

Atheists have a belief in that there is "No-God" and Religions have a belief that there is indeed a God. Atheists put their faith in themselves and science, and Religions put their faith in God and their doctrines. A belief is a belief, and Atheists adhere to their religious belief system no different than those who believe in God or their faith adhere to theirs.

Where do you get off on trying to define what other people do and don't do? Having faith doesn't mean you have no belief in science.

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: rickynews

Thing is plenty of people find God without religion and the rubbish that goes with it.
I believe in God but I do not want religion in state affairs nor education classes nor would I vote for anyone who asks God what to do.

Atheists have a belief in that there is "No-God" and Religions have a belief that there is indeed a God. Atheists put their faith in themselves and science, and Religions put their faith in God and their doctrines. A belief is a belief, and Atheists adhere to their religious belief system no different than those who believe in God or their faith adhere to theirs.

Where do you get off on trying to define what other people do and don't do? Having faith doesn't mean you have no belief in science.

Whats funny is, he and others like him are the first to tell you: "i dont care what an atheist thinks".

then he obsesses over them, and tries to tell them, not only what it is that they think, but that they are wrong in thinking it.

Typical religious zealot. Hypocrisy/trolling to the highest order.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Hey Wrabbit,

Based on your question, you might find this interesting:

Is Religion the Cause of Most Wars?

The article references a book, "the Encyclopedia of Wars". According to the article of the 1763 wars presented in the encyclopedia, 123 are considered to have had a religious cause and that the number of people killed in these conflicts amounts to less than 2 percent of the total people killed in the 1763 wars included in the encyclopedia.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Mr. Bunny, Sir..

i agree with your post, for the most part. however, one clear example of something that was done by christians, because of their religion, is the crusades...

i think we can all agree that this was a most distasteful undertaking by today's moral standards..

additionally, to windword, and ricky...."miracle" is a word used to describe some thing, or event, that we can't explain yet..

people with lazy minds choose to attribute it to "god", people with diligent minds choose to try and figure it out.

originally posted by: captaintyinknots

originally posted by: uncommitted

originally posted by: rickynews

originally posted by: boymonkey74
a reply to: rickynews

Thing is plenty of people find God without religion and the rubbish that goes with it.
I believe in God but I do not want religion in state affairs nor education classes nor would I vote for anyone who asks God what to do.

Atheists have a belief in that there is "No-God" and Religions have a belief that there is indeed a God. Atheists put their faith in themselves and science, and Religions put their faith in God and their doctrines. A belief is a belief, and Atheists adhere to their religious belief system no different than those who believe in God or their faith adhere to theirs.

Where do you get off on trying to define what other people do and don't do? Having faith doesn't mean you have no belief in science.

Whats funny is, he and others like him are the first to tell you: "i dont care what an atheist thinks".

then he obsesses over them, and tries to tell them, not only what it is that they think, but that they are wrong in thinking it.

Typical religious zealot. Hypocrisy/trolling to the highest order.

In fairness, there are obsessives on all sides of the fence, just not sure why a person thinks they can define what anyone apart from their self thinks.

a reply to: Daedalus

Yes, sir. On this?

i agree with your post, for the most part. however, one clear example of something that was done by christians, because of their religion, is the crusades...

i think we can all agree that this was a most distasteful undertaking by today's moral standards..

We have absolutely no disagreement. In fact, as I learned this year on some of the deeper details? Europe owes the Muslims a thank you for something back then. Muslims took all the 'stuff' out of Europe as it fell into the Dark Age period. Had they not, Europe would have likely lost or destroyed untold priceless knowledge.

Of course, they didn't learn all that until conquering back and forth in the Crusades..and as we agree, that's a wee hard to see as anything but one of the darker periods of Christian history. Indeed.. Every Faith has it's periods of barbarism.

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Mr. Bunny, Sir..

i agree with your post, for the most part. however, one clear example of something that was done by christians, because of their religion, is the crusades...

i think we can all agree that this was a most distasteful undertaking by today's moral standards..

additionally, to windword, and ricky...."miracle" is a word used to describe some thing, or event, that we can't explain yet..

people with lazy minds choose to attribute it to "god", people with diligent minds choose to try and figure it out.

I've just been reading some excellent work on the crusades, fascinating. To call it 'something that was done by Christians' though is somewhat disingenuous though because at the time, Europe was fairly much all Christian (not totally correct, I'm aware of the fact that there were Jewish strongholds in Europe, but not ones that were seen as controlling a country) and the Middle East was all Muslim. That sounds very broad and simplistic, but it's fairly much the truth - State and Church were fairly much the same thing. Although the badge of Christianity was used by the West and that of Islam by the East, let's not pretend that this was about faith, not power, land and fortune.

ETA, if you have an interest, The First Crusade by Thomas Asbridge is an excellent book to find out more about how the conflict took place.

a reply to: uncommitted

call it simplistic, but the crusades were, in it's most basic description, christians killing the living hell out of muslims, jews, etc, because they had a different invisible friend...it was very much about religion..

Rickynews, there is no point in you going on about communisim. We're not communists. In all the atheist related media I've seen, I've never seen the conversation turn to communism. And above all, communism has nothing whatsoever to do with the opposition to this ruling, or why the lawsuits were originally made.

originally posted by: rickynews

How does science or humanity account for, and explain, the countless Miracles?

Like what miracles, bro?

How about phenomenons, natural or otherwise? Has science ever been wrong, and corrected itself? Has humanity ever been wrong? What came first, the chicken or the egg? What makes the world go round and round for millions of years? How does "nothing" come from "nothing" Do you have a scientific explanation? How about the Big Bang? If it all started with a golf ball sized piece of matter, then how did the matter get there in the first place? The list is endless, and goes on and on and on and on....Nobody can figure out Almighty God, so it seems to me Atheists simply default to the misguided thinking of "since my limited human intelligence can't figure out that there is a God, He must not exist".

You've got it exactly wrong. Nobody knows. Maybe no one ever will. I recognize the gaps in our knowledge, and I don't feel the need to fill that gap with fantasy. I don't know if there is some kind of creator. I don't have any reason to rule it out. Nor do I have any reason to rule it in. (what's the opposite of rule out)?

And people, stop talking about historical masacres as if it has anything at all to do with this thread topic. You're just looking for an excuse to stop listening to another point of view.

a reply to: windword

thanks for your opinion and judgement of us.....0.o

so you arent contesting what I said. Ok.

Would you like to hear my own personal opinion on atheists and my final judgement of them?

How about we stay on topic, though I know it feels good to rail on christians. Watch out though, christians may learn to rail on you for that feel good sensation of feeling superior to people you dehumanize and trivialize. AND they are the majority here.

Do You like the prospect of pushing christians so far that they simply retaliate in the most base and primal of human nature?

Keep pissing people off for that feel good sensation, little smirks and judgements passed....you are the one who is quite literally surrounded pal.

Piss them off. No need for respect. Go ahead. Keep pushing.

a reply to: Daedalus

additionally, to windword, and ricky...."miracle" is a word used to describe some thing, or event, that we can't explain yet..

Yes, well, the storm that many attribute to America's victory in the War of 1812 was considered a miracle, but we all know it was just a fortunate coincidence.

a reply to: tadaman

Look, you keep insisting that this is a Christian nation, and majority rules. Well, the majority of Christians can't even agree with each other on what they believe and argue among one another about whose going to hell and whose going to heaven, so, tada!, your argument is moot.

originally posted by: windword
a reply to: Daedalus

additionally, to windword, and ricky...."miracle" is a word used to describe some thing, or event, that we can't explain yet..

Yes, well, the storm that many attribute to America's victory in the War of 1812 was considered a miracle, but we all know it was just a fortunate coincidence.

LOL! I think you have just demonstrated wonderfully the difference between an atheistic and christian approach.

a reply to: Logarock

Indeed! I think this will be the one time that we both agree on something! Mark the time and date, I doubt that it'll happen again! LOL!

originally posted by: Daedalus
a reply to: uncommitted

call it simplistic, but the crusades were, in it's most basic description, christians killing the living hell out of muslims, jews, etc, because they had a different invisible friend...it was very much about religion..

That is very true, there is no denying it, having said that you need to bear in mind that Jerusalem had been taken by Muslims FROM the Christians that actually led to the first crusade, and they didn't ask them politely to leave. No one comes out of that from a 'faith' perspective with too much honour.

originally posted by: Tearman

Rickynews, there is no point in you going on about communisim. We're not communists. In all the atheist related media I've seen, I've never seen the conversation turn to communism. And above all, communism has nothing whatsoever to do with the opposition to this ruling, or why the lawsuits were originally made.




And people, stop talking about historical masacres as if it has anything at all to do with this thread topic. You're just looking for an excuse to stop listening to another point of view.

Aren't you trying to stop people listening to another point of view by saying that? This is a discussion forum, I'm sorry but you don't apply the rules.

edit on 9-5-2014 by uncommitted because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-5-2014 by uncommitted because: (no reason given)

a reply to: windword


Yes this whole idea of america being a "christian nation" is not a cultural interpretation without merit. However it is really an unconstitutional idea with no legal standing in that regard. In fact the legal standing for Christianity in the constitution is powerful, but amounts to a position of standing in relationship to the government and visa versa. There is no constitutional cultural mandate for a christian nation but a restriction against a state church like England had at the time of the revolution. Our founders actually addressed a state church with the same disdain they did for trial without jury.

a reply to: windword

it is a democracy. Yes. Majority rule. I dont know how you can mistake that.

And it is inhabited by a population who is in its majority christian.

You may not like it, but it is still true.

You should be able to live and let live though since church and state ARE separate.

Anything after that is just people being disrespectful and douchebags towards a culture they dont appreciate.

EDIT TO ADD:

My argument has not been contested. You are speaking about the differences between denominations. Yeah they exist. AND?

Oh, you are trying to say that because of that they are somehow invalid as a faith system? Ok, you dont seem to be even slightly qualified to quantify anyones religious standing within their faith system or the totality of their worth as a whole.

You should stick to "nothing there anyways", unless you are implying that you are an agnostic and arent sure, so you take issue with a particular faith because it doesnt satisfy your inner feeling of "something more, but just not that"

either way, you are a mess.

Figure yourself out before you pass judgements.

a reply to: uncommitted

right, right....but the taking of jerusalem from the christians was, again, about the whole invisible friend thing....thinking one group of lunatics had more of a right to occupy a city, than another group of lunatics, because their specific invisible friend said so...

as a side note...i always found the concept of religion funny for a number of reasons...one of them being:

if you're a child, and you have an invisible friend, and have conversations with it, it's completely ok...if you're an adult, and you have an invisible friend, and have conversations with it, they wanna put you on drugs, because you're "crazy"...if you're an adult, and you have an invisible friend, and have conversations with it, but that invisible friend is "god", you're suddenly not crazy...

a reply to: tadaman

As I stated earlier, First and foremost, the United States of America is a republic. The bases of our laws are dictated by the constitution not by the majority. Mob rule has never been the source of American laws. "Majority Rule" is for the playground not for the country.

We can't vote for things that are "unconstitutional". We, as a country, don't/can't represent or favor any one religion over another.

Christianity can't be legislated, regardless of majority rule!