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U.S. Supreme Court Ruling: Atheists Lose...Again.

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posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:04 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

You are focusing on the most trivial part of the analogy. if it helps you to connect the dots, change the brothers to two unrelated citizens, the parents to the government, and the presents to tax credits.




posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:06 PM
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a reply to: Secret009

Or I can use my initial post, which is what I am going to do.

thanks anyways.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:08 PM
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originally posted by: sheepslayer247
I agree with what you said Beez, but I do not agree with the courts decision.

Thomas Jefferson one said that there should be a distinct "wall" erected between church and state. If there was not a separation of the two, one can affect the other.

That's what is happening here.

The courts have decided that prayer (Christianity) is nothing more than a tradition or a ceremony and it's part of what America is.

This ruling is very bad. Pretty much was this means is that the US government favors one religion over all others. Christianity.


Thankfully Jefferson was wrong...

The gov't favors Christianity over other religions because the people in gov't favor Christianity...The Founders seem to have believed in Christianity or at least the Christian God...

Our basic rights are dependent upon that belief...Life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, 1st Amendment, 2nd Amendment are rights given by God...They apply to Christians, atheists, muzlims, etc...

If an atheist would rather those rights came from a gov't they'd have been gone a long time ago...So I think atheists actually appreciate those rights that most people claim came from God...

Our basic laws are pretty much based on the 10 Commandments which seems to work out pretty well for Christians and atheists, when they are followed and enforced...You don't like it that those Christian laws not only apply to you but protect you as well???



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:08 PM
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originally posted by: Secret009
a reply to: TiedDestructor

"It's called Reverence and it requires humility.

Some of us are still humble you know? "


The irony is completely lost on you, isn't it?

May the flying spaghetti monster grant you a favorable crop yield this season.


"I find very little "lost" on me. "



LOL



Learn to quote yo.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:10 PM
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a reply to: DietJoke


"Saying a prayer does not constitute the establishment of any religion"

Except for the religion the prayer belongs to.

"I agree that is what he basically said and therefor the onus is on the chaplains to remain true to their own faiths and that is not something the courts or government can mandate. "

So it doesn't violate church and state separations so long as the new religious law is good for the target religion. That's called a theocracy.

"Maybe there isn't an inclusive principle to prayers if one is an Atheist ... but Atheist's can not deny the freedom of religious expression of the Christians"

No one is outlawing your private prayers. Just keep them out of my government thanks very much.

"There is no Theocracy at play here and to imply that the Greece town council is such, when they have tried to be inclusive, is really dirty politics and the sign of a very weak argument! "

Forcing public prayer while advocating it as 'freedom of religion' is as weak an argument as you can make.

"Time will tell if a Muslim prayer brings out any hypocrisy in the Greece town council meetings. "

Haven't been keeping up with the news huh?



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:12 PM
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a reply to: Secret009

Again there is no church and state clause in the Constitution.

The federal government cannot establish a national religion - that's it. Everything else people about this topic come from various court rulings across the nation at the state and federal court levels.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:13 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra

"You are focusing on the most trivial part of the analogy. if it helps you to connect the dots, change the brothers to two unrelated citizens, the parents to the government, and the presents to tax credits."-me
Translation: Let me address your critique of my analogy by changing the actors but keeping the process intact.

"Or I can use my initial post, which is what I am going to do.

thanks anyways." - you
translation : I don't care, you are wrong, *sticks finger in ears* lalalalalalalalalala!



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:17 PM
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a reply to: Iscool

"Thankfully Jefferson was wrong...

The gov't favors Christianity over other religions because the people in gov't favor Christianity...The Founders seem to have believed in Christianity or at least the Christian God... "


The Treaty of Tripoli- 1797
"Art. 11. As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion..."
-John Adams


How does it feel to be so incredibly wrong?



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:18 PM
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a reply to: TiedDestructor

Only if you promise to fix your reading comprehension.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:18 PM
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a reply to: rickynews

Would you support this as much as you do if it was only Muslim prayers before the meetings?



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:21 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Secret009

Again there is no church and state clause in the Constitution.



"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Whoopsie! Sorry, my copy/paste finger slipped from wikipedia's US constitution page. My bad?



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:26 PM
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a reply to: Secret009

Saying prayer doesn't establish the state as a religion ... it establishes the religion as a religion!

Saying prayer does not make it a new law ... you're clutching at straws now!


I do keep my prayers private ... you're making a LOT of assumptions about me and this thread is not about me!

I am not the one making the argument ... the CONSTITUTION IS!

You clearly want constitutional change ... may I recommend you try getting an amendment!

Please show me a credible article where the Greece town council had issue with a Muslim prayer being spoken.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:31 PM
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originally posted by: Secret009

originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: Secret009

Again there is no church and state clause in the Constitution.



"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof."

Whoopsie! Sorry, my copy/paste finger slipped from wikipedia's US constitution page. My bad?


Correct - its what I just stated.

There is nothing in the constitution that prohibits prayer in school, government buildings etc.

It becomes a violation when the government passes a law requiring religion be practiced in those places.

For those a bit more curious / history buffs - Research Red Mass.
edit on 5-5-2014 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:40 PM
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originally posted by: DietJoke
a reply to: Secret009

Saying prayer doesn't establish the state as a religion ... it establishes the religion as a religion!



Unless that prayer is a mandatory event in a government building.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:43 PM
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a reply to: Secret009

It is not mandatory ... no one is forced to attend!



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:43 PM
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a reply to: Xcathdra


"There is nothing in the constitution that prohibits prayer in school, government buildings etc.

It becomes a violation when the government passes a law requiring religion be practiced in those places."



Like a mandatory Christian prayer at a government building, or the phrase 'under god' in the pledge (in schools)?

edit on 5-5-2014 by Secret009 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:47 PM
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a reply to: DietJoke

"It is not mandatory ... no one is forced to attend!"

Except the politicians that are forced to attend/hear said Christian prayers, and the added insult that it is funded with taxpayer dollars. Is being tax exempt not #ing enough for you people? What is your fascination with religious exhibitionism? Why act like a preteen school girl who wants all her friends to notice her pretty new hair cut and make her the center of attention? Keep your prayers to yourself, OUT OF OUR GOVERNMENT.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:47 PM
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a reply to: Iscool



Thankfully Jefferson was wrong


Was he? It seems we are bound and determined to become that which our ancestors fled. Where will we go now? What peoples will we destroy in order to be free once again?



The gov't favors Christianity over other religions because the people in gov't favor Christianity


Polar opposite of religious liberty.



Our basic rights are dependent upon that belief


Christian belief? No. Our rights come from simply being human, our rights need not be put in the hands of humans who claim to speak with authority granted by a God.



If an atheist would rather those rights came from a gov't they'd have been gone a long time ago...So I think atheists actually appreciate those rights that most people claim came from God


These rights aren't granted by anyone or anything but are inherent by virtue of being alive.



Our basic laws are pretty much based on the 10 Commandments


The Ten Commandments are common sense for the tranquility of a society. It must be a miracle (ha ha) that societies never having anything to do with Christianity survived long enough for technology to tell us they existed. It's fine that a religion(s) wants to attribute them to a God and carry out their lives accordingly.

It isn't fine for a government to maintain that these common sense principles come only from a particular God and thus placing moral authority over an entire nation into the hands of people that claim to speak for that particular God.


edit on 5/5/2014 by Kali74 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:53 PM
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a reply to: Secret009

AS I stated before ... you clearly want constitutional change ... there is a valid avenue for that!



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 08:55 PM
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originally posted by: Iscool

originally posted by: sheepslayer247
I agree with what you said Beez, but I do not agree with the courts decision.

Thomas Jefferson one said that there should be a distinct "wall" erected between church and state. If there was not a separation of the two, one can affect the other.

That's what is happening here.

The courts have decided that prayer (Christianity) is nothing more than a tradition or a ceremony and it's part of what America is.

This ruling is very bad. Pretty much was this means is that the US government favors one religion over all others. Christianity.


Our basic laws are pretty much based on the 10 Commandments which seems to work out pretty well for Christians and atheists, when they are followed and enforced...You don't like it that those Christian laws not only apply to you but protect you as well???




Where is the law then about not having other gods before the jealous Christian god. Or working on Sundays. Or respecting your parents. Or worshiping shiny idols? How about coveting? Do you covet your neighbors possessions? Because its kind of the foundation of a capitalist society.

Or how about a law against craven images, a law completely antithetical to a free society? is it against the law to take the lord's name in vain?

Whats that? None of those commandments are laws and what you just said was bearing false witness (another commandment)? Oh, ok then. Enjoy your everlasting hellfire.




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