Does anyone here take the bible completely litteraly

a reply to: Prezbo369

Some could say that the invasion of Iraq was a crusade but that would be a short cut to thinking it was for money plain and simple. Saddam was just fine when he did as he was told it was only when it went euro problems happened, I digress.

At the very start of this thread I stated that I went to an RC school so yes I studied different religions not quite the same as being religious.
This debate is pointless as your aggressive atheist stance is one of if you believe all that crap you are an idiot do you see anything hypocritical in your argument?
People dislike shouty idiot atheists as much as they dislike preachy religious types.

I am not sure if you are choosing to miss the point or just cant see past your own opinion but people do bad things if they choose to use religion as an excuse that is up to them or a jury to decide depending on what has happened. No words written down thousands of years ago make anyone do anything.
You may argue cause and effect, by the abuse of written word people carry out terrible actions? The same can be said of history different groups fight out over who killed who and how many during wars that happened before most of the protagonists were even born.

I am not a believer in any religion but allot of my family do, it gives them comfort and it hurts no one. If your point is to say religion should be squashed because people do bad things in its name then you will need to remove money, land rights, any fuel type, all businesses, working regulations in fact the only way to remove the problems would be to remove the people that carry out the acts.

Just to go back to topic rather than just bash religion, to follow ANY words written thousands of years ago would be an impossibility but as the topic names the bible they are teachings and stories to use to get people to live a life that revolves around helping each other I see nothing wrong with that and society is only reading a translation of a translation of a story that someone was told.

Thousands of religious people also do good things on a daily basis but I presume that is of little interest here.
I dont like using the quote thingy sorry and this is my 8th ish post so apologies if it is hard to read.

a reply to: jmdewey60
Thank you, yes that is exactly what I meant.
Most of the horrors in recorded history have been done by people claiming to be doing the right thing or gods work. Its all a lie to sell the horrors to the populace.

Religious wars are basically people killing each other over who has the better imaginary friend.
Napoleon.

With all due respect how do we know what the true religion is and if there even is such a thing.
To what lengths should people go to teach only the one true religion, then what happens to those that dont believe?

originally posted by: shayhorse
a reply to: Prezbo369

Some could say that the invasion of Iraq was a crusade but that would be a short cut to thinking it was for money plain and simple. Saddam was just fine when he did as he was told it was only when it went euro problems happened, I digress.

I am driven with a mission from God

At the very start of this thread I stated that I went to an RC school so yes I studied different religions not quite the same as being religious.
This debate is pointless as your aggressive atheist stance is one of if you believe all that crap you are an idiot do you see anything hypocritical in your argument?

Do not put words in my mouth or anyone elses for that matter......the strawman you're attempting to build won't help you.

In regards to the claim of hypocrisy, I don't see it no, perhaps you could show me where you think it lies?

People dislike shouty idiot atheists as much as they dislike preachy religious types.

And an hominem attack already? do you realise what that says about you and your argument?

I am not sure if you are choosing to miss the point or just cant see past your own opinion but people do bad things if they choose to use religion as an excuse that is up to them or a jury to decide depending on what has happened.

If you think bad people require 'excuses' to commit back acts then you're being very naive.

No words written down thousands of years ago make anyone do anything.
You may argue cause and effect, by the abuse of written word people carry out terrible actions? The same can be said of history different groups fight out over who killed who and how many during wars that happened before most of the protagonists were even born.

Only religion and it's claims of gods and eternal life can make good people do bad things.

I am not a believer in any religion but allot of my family do, it gives them comfort and it hurts no one. If your point is to say religion should be squashed because people do bad things in its name then you will need to remove money, land rights, any fuel type, all businesses, working regulations in fact the only way to remove the problems would be to remove the people that carry out the acts.

Again stop putting words in my mouth, if nothing it's against forum rules........I don't think religion should be squashed, I think it'll eventually and inevitably vanish through education, eventually.

Just to go back to topic rather than just bash religion, to follow ANY words written thousands of years ago would be an impossibility but as the topic names the bible they are teachings and stories to use to get people to live a life that revolves around helping each other I see nothing wrong with that and society is only reading a translation of a translation of a story that someone was told.

I can see someone thinking that the bible contains nothing but what you describe above if they'd never even read the bible, as there are many many horrific actions within that are carried out by the main protagonist and other characters all throughout the bible. This leads me to suspect that you've never read the bible.

Thousands of religious people also do good things on a daily basis but I presume that is of little interest here.
I dont like using the quote thingy sorry and this is my 8th ish post so apologies if it is hard to read.

Thousand of atheists also do many good things on a daily basis too, except they don't do it because they think their heavenly dictator is constantly reading their minds and watching everything they do, and will decide whether or not to spit-roast them depending on how much they please/displease him/it.

a reply to: Prezbo369

Against forum rules??? but being rude to people seems just fine for you?
Pointless argument.
I am not walking you back through the thread.
As for words in peoples mouths....Really,,,you see no hypocrisy in your words either way I am not getting in an argument that is 1 off topic and 2 pointless. You clearly have your understanding of the way the world works I feel your comments are aggressive in nature and you appear to be upset when a reply is in anyway confrontational. (The original question was does anyone take the words of the bible literally).

You are calling people foolish and stupid for believing in religion. I said what is wrong with it if it gives people comfort, you single out all the bad sides of it and none of the qualities.

You cannot generalize for one side of an argument and point out specifics for the other.
Your language is condescending it seems strange that you are so sensitive when returned in kind.
I am glad you have conviction in what you believe but when that crosses into insults to others as you have done it must be pointed out for what it is which is bullying.
No matter how credible or not your case it loses power when it comes across as preachy shouting.

a reply to: shayhorse

Perhaps you can show me where I was rude and insulting towards you or anyone else? because it seems like you're attempting to play the victim card here which would be unwarranted.

Maybe then you'll answer some of the points raised?

a reply to: Prezbo369
But its pointless you make the same points over and over, you are asking for proof of god. If you had seen my first post I explained that (it may be your enthusiasm to get your own point across).
You continue to make the same points and the conversation isnt moving in any direction.

What are you looking for people to say???? Awww never mind about years of belief as you have said its an impossibility there is no point in having faith????
Being shouty and confrontational does not make you any more valid, as I also said earlier I am not walking you back through your own comments.

Does anyone here take the bible completely litteraly

I don't even take it a little bit literally.

originally posted by: CJCrawley
Does anyone here take the bible completely litteraly

I don't even take it a little bit literally.

well clearly i wasnt asking you the question
maybe you should just be listening

originally posted by: shayhorse
a reply to: Prezbo369
But its pointless you make the same points over and over, you are asking for proof of god. If you had seen my first post I explained that (it may be your enthusiasm to get your own point across).
You continue to make the same points and the conversation isnt moving in any direction.

What are you looking for people to say???? Awww never mind about years of belief as you have said its an impossibility there is no point in having faith????
Being shouty and confrontational does not make you any more valid, as I also said earlier I am not walking you back through your own comments.

You are right, it is pointless

the rhetoric of the poster is not based on interest or discussion, its just angst

time to call it on this discussion, just let it go.

I guess my point of this thread was to show the non believer that their understanding is wrong in relation to what they want to believe
I see I cant

originally posted by: Prezbo369
a reply to: shayhorse

Perhaps you can show me where I was rude and insulting towards you or anyone else? because it seems like you're attempting to play the victim card here which would be unwarranted.

Maybe then you'll answer some of the points raised?

You are attacking someones beliefs to argue a point, surely you cant ask a question about insulting people.

You cant see the nose on your face, you are acting the victim to justify yourself..I seriously cant see why you are even in this discussion

Why?

I dont hang around atheist forums bating atheists, arguing my faith, bullying my beliefs
You do and I dont get it

To me you are just a preacher of your faith, an evangelist of nothing, here just to argue and preach.

Why do you come here all the time when you clearly hate religion.
To me its unhealthy, it might be sign of an unhealthy mind

We disagree, I accept your beliefs, well done.

originally posted by: shayhorse
a reply to: Prezbo369
But its pointless you make the same points over and over, you are asking for proof of god. If you had seen my first post I explained that (it may be your enthusiasm to get your own point across).
You continue to make the same points and the conversation isnt moving in any direction.

Again you're putting words in my mouth.....when have I asked you for proof of God? why would I ask you, an apparent atheist, for proof of a God?

All i've done is respond to your claims, and when you've not backed up those claims i've pushed the issue to see just how deep the hole you were digging for yourself was going to get, and here we are.

What are you looking for people to say???? Awww never mind about years of belief as you have said its an impossibility there is no point in having faith????

I'm looking for anyone to give a good reason to believe the things they do, and all i've gotten is people playing the victim because i've dared to question their outlandish claims.

Being shouty and confrontational does not make you any more valid, as I also said earlier I am not walking you back through your own comments.

I highly doubt at this point you've even read most of my posts, and lets not forget who it was that threw out the ad hominem attack and continues even now to put words in my mouth in an attempt to build a strawman that might get you out of your hole...

Every response you've made to me seems like massive projection tbh....

originally posted by: borntowatch
You are attacking someones beliefs to argue a point, surely you cant ask a question about insulting people.

As you said, i'm insulting someones beliefs.......not people. Seems you're unable to distinguish between the two....

You cant see the nose on your face, you are acting the victim to justify yourself..I seriously cant see why you are even in this discussion

When someone resorts to name-calling in a discussion/exchange I hope you know what that means about the attackers argument/position? Is pointing it out 'acting the victim'?

I seriously cant see why you are even in this discussion why?

To respond to other posters claims in order to see just how strong they are. And as it turns out they're incredibly weak. You can stand having your beliefs questioned can't you?

I dont hang around atheist forums bating atheists, arguing my faith, bullying my beliefs
You do and I dont get it

Lol! no you just bait atheists here on the religion, faith, and theology forums! (which btw isn't a circle-jerk for religious people).

To me you are just a preacher of your faith, an evangelist of nothing, here just to argue and preach.

Whereas you're?........more projection

Why do you come here all the time when you clearly hate religion.
To me its unhealthy, it might be sign of an unhealthy mind

The fact that people can accept such outrageous claims of supernatural spookiness absolutely fascinates me. The detachment from reality and the compartmentalisation that occurs is a very interesting spectacle.

That plus I feel you're claims should always be met and countered as religious people are constantly attempting to enforce their beliefs upon others.

Does that satisfy you? :p

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: CJCrawley
Does anyone here take the bible completely litteraly

I don't even take it a little bit literally.

well clearly i wasnt asking you the question
maybe you should just be listening

As an ATS member I am entitled to reply to the thread.

I'm sorry if it wasn't to your liking.

Perhaps you could have worded your question differently?

"Only brain-dead zombies who take the Bible completely literally reply to this thread. Everyone else - butt out!"

Doesn't it boil down to whether it was made or manipulated for control or was originally about enlightenment?
When anything is meant to be taking literally, which the bible seems to be or been preached as, then its about control. When it was a way of explaining a belief or idea it was for enlightenment.

It does seem that the pick and choose stories of the bible where preached to control. Whether this was the original plan or not is unclear.

It could be that the original preachers truly believed what they had thought up or it could be followers taking it literally and preaching it as such. It could be those in power highlighting ideas as truths that don't threaten them.

I think the real question is not whether you believe in the story or take it literally but whether you believe in the message.
Do you think we should follow the idea of leading moral life's or grasp opportunities for bettering ourselves forsaking others.


It also seems to me that the preaching the idea as fact hinders new ideas.

originally posted by: CJCrawley

originally posted by: borntowatch

originally posted by: CJCrawley
Does anyone here take the bible completely litteraly

I don't even take it a little bit literally.

well clearly i wasnt asking you the question
maybe you should just be listening

As an ATS member I am entitled to reply to the thread.

I'm sorry if it wasn't to your liking.

Perhaps you could have worded your question differently?

"Only brain-dead zombies who take the Bible completely literally reply to this thread. Everyone else - butt out!"

I am glad you are entitled to an opinion and a reply on ats. Its just sad you cant validate that right with something valid and relevant

I could have worded it differently but, well I expected a reasoned and thoughtful answer would be more appropriate.

a reply to: jmdewey60

Ignorance can also result in lack of belief, such as accepting blindly the claim of some that there was no actual person, Jesus.

Does that even really matter any more? Was the teaching of "Christ Consciousness" already being embraced before the advent of one Jesus? Was Jesus a real person who taught about "Christ Consciousness" or did an entity we know as "Christ" enter our world as a baby born from a virgin, etc., etc., etc.,


How does it matter if a flesh and bones Jesus walked, talked and ate 2000 years ago? He's here today the same way he was here in 34 AD, in "spirit" only. Jesus "Christ" has been nothing more than a spiritual concept for approximately 1980 years.

Whether or not a man 2000 years ago sweated, cried, bled........has, or should have, nothing to do with how Jesus "Christ" is followed/worshiped today.

a reply to: windword

Was Jesus a real person who taught about "Christ Consciousness" . . .

I'm not sure what that term is supposed to mean.
It is important that Jesus was a real person because we are real persons.
We want to be what Jesus is now, at some point in the future.
We can share in God's spirit through the agency of Jesus as the risen Christ.
We are accepted as adopted children of God in that Jesus had proven himself a true son of God, even though he was living in the same flesh and blood as we do.

a reply to: jmdewey60

I'm not sure what that term is supposed to mean.

"Christ Consciousness"?

It is important that Jesus was a real person because we are real persons.
We want to be what Jesus is now, at some point in the future.

What is Jesus now? God? According to Christianity, can we be God? Is Jesus pure spirit? Doesn't Christianity offer that to its followers?

If Jesus is the "Bridegroom" to the body of followers, known as the "Bride of Christ", can the church be the bridegroom as well?

We can share in God's spirit through the agency of Jesus as the risen Christ.

See, I think that "Christ Consciousness" doesn't require the crucifixion of a flesh and bones symbol of god on earth, dying on our behalf. We all die (in Christ Consciousness) and are born into spirituality. I believe it's a spiritual law that the Jesus myth symbolizes, not a new spiritual law enacted by the purposeful death of an incarnate god.

We are accepted as adopted children of God in that Jesus had proven himself a true son of God, even though he was living in the same flesh and blood as we do.

I don't think that we're adopted into a foreign, or alien, family. We already are sons of God. I believe this to be a spiritual truth. I think we rise to and inherit our rightfully earned position in the heavens through the process of realizing the "Christ Consciousness".

a reply to: windword

What is Jesus now? God? According to Christianity, can we be God? Is Jesus pure spirit? Doesn't Christianity offer that to its followers?

I'm not the official spokesperson for Christianity.
I am someone who reads the Bible for what it says vs. just using it to data mine for doctrinal proof texts.
Jesus is a person with a resurrected and incorruptible body, who can somehow live in Heaven.
I would say that none of us would pass the aptitude test for the position of God.
I don't know what "pure spirit" would be, other than whatever we were before there was a physical universe, In that case, it would be an impossible reversal of events to ever be that again.

"Christ Consciousness"?

After a super quick Google search, I would say that is not what Jesus, or rather the New Testament, teaches.
We have to have the mind of God, which is not being hateful towards other people without a good reason, and that does not include just a personal slight.
I watched the first few minutes of Fast and Furious 6 until one of the main characters (played by Dwayne Johnson) beats up a suspect in custody.
What movies and TV shows use as a device to get the audience to accept this sort of criminal behavior on the part of supposed law enforcement, is that the suspect answers with use a sarcastic or derogatory tone of voice when requested to turn over the name of who he is working for.
God does not accept that as a rationale (of course I stopped watching at that point, refusing to support evil propaganda, and why I don't watch 24, either).

If Jesus is the "Bridegroom" to the body of followers, known as the "Bride of Christ", can the church be the bridegroom as well?

Depends on what you mean by "to be". If you mean that it could be used as an interpretation of the bridegroom in the parable of the ten virgins, then Yes.

See, I think that "Christ Consciousness" doesn't require the crucifixion of a flesh and bones symbol of god on earth, dying on our behalf.

I do. Jesus died as a criminal (sinner) to receive the judgment of his soul.
The whole idea is that though he was seen as an undesirable person by men, God could see that he was really righteous, by His standards.
He was a flesh and blood man, but still, he was able to go, in his resurrected form, to Heaven to serve as representative and intercessor for us, which includes taking the pure form of spirit from God, and sending a specifically tailored version of spirit to us.

We all die (in Christ Consciousness) and are born into spirituality.

Baptism, which would be meaningless without Jesus' death and resurrection.

I believe it's a spiritual law that the Jesus myth symbolizes, not a new spiritual law enacted by the purposeful death of an incarnate god.

Apparently we disagree.
I think that it is new, that there is a way for us now to have a real connection with God, that did not exist until Jesus took up his current position in Heaven.

I think we rise to and inherit our rightfully earned position in the heavens through the process of realizing the "Christ Consciousness".

I don't think that we can be perfect, if that is what you mean.
We can be better with God than we would be without God.
I don't think that our ultimate goal is to literally be in "the heavens".
I think that is just metaphorical and is rooted in ancient mythology of where stars come from.