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Virginia proposal would limit size of gatherings at private homes...more rights at stake...

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posted on May, 6 2014 @ 07:20 PM
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originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: smithjustinb

And I'd like to enjoy my life by shooting the next guy who cuts me off in traffic. After all, the world doesn't revolve around him, and it would be very enjoyable for me.


Unfortunately, for you, murder is not supported by the constitution of the U.S. The right to assembly, however, is.


Sure it is, but it's limited. You have the right to defend yourself, and during war, it's okay. You do not, however, have the right to shoot anyone, any time. You have the right to assembly, but the constitution doesn't say you have the right anywhere, anytime.




posted on May, 6 2014 @ 07:22 PM
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originally posted by: Dianec
Double post my accident so will say if neighbors are that bad, one needs to go through the appropriate channels and have the civil servants we all pay come to put an end to it.


Agreed!



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 07:30 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: smithjustinb

originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: smithjustinb

And I'd like to enjoy my life by shooting the next guy who cuts me off in traffic. After all, the world doesn't revolve around him, and it would be very enjoyable for me.


Unfortunately, for you, murder is not supported by the constitution of the U.S. The right to assembly, however, is.


Sure it is, but it's limited. You have the right to defend yourself, and during war, it's okay. You do not, however, have the right to shoot anyone, any time. You have the right to assembly, but the constitution doesn't say you have the right anywhere, anytime.


en.wikipedia.org...


The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution prohibits the making of any law respecting... interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.


So are they trying to make a law that interferes with the right to peaceably assemble? Yes. If 50 people can assemble peaceably, but otherwise cannot assemble at all due to Virginia's attempt at a law, then this is a violation of that right. There is no limitation implied here. If they can do it peaceably, then they are supported to the fullest extent under the law. If they cannot do it peaceably, then they are not supported. But there is nothing in the constitution that says that over 49 people is automatically not peaceable. Therefore, the law, if enacted, can only be unconstitutional. If 50 people can assemble peaceably, then no law can be legally made to strip them from their right to assemble altogether. Period.
edit on 6-5-2014 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)


Anywhere. Anytime. Peaceably.
edit on 6-5-2014 by smithjustinb because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 07:54 PM
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a reply to: smithjustinb

No one is saying they can't peaceably assemble. They can peaceably assemble in an area that can more easily accommodate a large group.

I'll say this again. I don't think this new zoning ordinance is necessary, because there are already laws that stop gatherings from disturbing the peace. What I AM saying is, you repeatedly disturb my peace, and I'm gonna turn you in and make it stop. I don't care what the purpose of your gathering is.



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 08:14 PM
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originally posted by: smithjustinb


If 50 people can assemble peaceably, then no law can be legally made to strip them from their right to assemble altogether. Period.

Anywhere. Anytime. Peaceably.


So I can gather 100 of my liberal friends to assemble peaceably on your front lawn at midnight? Anywhere, anytime, right? As long as it's peaceably and we're being weeeeewy qwiet.
edit on 6-5-2014 by kaylaluv because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 10:35 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv

originally posted by: smithjustinb


If 50 people can assemble peaceably, then no law can be legally made to strip them from their right to assemble altogether. Period.

Anywhere. Anytime. Peaceably.


So I can gather 100 of my liberal friends to assemble peaceably on your front lawn at midnight? Anywhere, anytime, right? As long as it's peaceably and we're being weeeeewy qwiet.


That's a terrible analogy. We're talking about parking rights on public roads and the rights of the people to do whatever they want in their own home as long as they maintain the peace in their own home. Youre trying to compare that to you trespassing on my property with 100 of your friends. I have property rights and privacy rights. You don't have property rights on anyone else's land, so it is irrelevant what you think about what people do on their own land. You don't have property rights to the road, so its irrelevant what you think about how people park on it. People should not have to answer to you or anyone else about how they behave in their own home as long as they are obeying the law.

Again, its just a terrible analogy.



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 10:40 PM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: smithjustinb

No one is saying they can't peaceably assemble.


That's definitely what they're saying.


They can peaceably assemble in an area that can more easily accommodate a large group.


Neither you nor the government have the authority to tell people where to assemble as long as it isn't trespassing. A public place is a public place. That includes the street where the cars would be. A private place is a private place and it is the right of the owner of that property to determine how many people can assemble on it. Its not your right, and its not the governments.


I'll say this again. I don't think this new zoning ordinance is necessary, because there are already laws that stop gatherings from disturbing the peace. What I AM saying is, you repeatedly disturb my peace, and I'm gonna turn you in and make it stop. I don't care what the purpose of your gathering is.



Okay. Good. You are permitted, under the law, to do that.



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 11:42 PM
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Soooo If I had a book club (they generally aren't too rowdy, yeh?) and my property became a picnic area, barbie and all, and I JUST so happened to get ONE more member last week for a total of FIFTY (50) members, I wouldn't be able to have that picnic?


Or what if I happened to live in Fairfax, saw that they may be passing this law/ordinance, and organized a gathering for several days in my OWN HOME that involved signing a petition to get it appealed and ONE HUNDRED (100) people showed up... Will the police stop/infringe upon my right to peaceably assemble and protest this stupidity?????



posted on May, 6 2014 @ 11:58 PM
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I say this only to be funny-

The dufus that came up with this insane idea must have Filipino neighbors!!

***A quick backstory about me, my wife is Filipino, and they love to get together often, sometimes just because someone bought a new kitchen appliance, new curtains or got pregnant and want to celebrate! Usually the one with the biggest house is where they go most often. They graze over food for hours, usually have one of those roasted pigs still looking at you when you cut it open, kick on the karaoke machine(and trust me my lady can not hold a tune to save her life), invite everyone in the neighborhood and half the city, and yack and laugh all night. I tell her when they talk it's like a bunch of LOUD chickens fighting, or a bunch of Klingons sitting around drinking bloodwine swapping battle stories! (as she sits here next to me laughing that I am saying this)***



posted on May, 7 2014 @ 12:19 AM
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Another stupid law that can be used by the government in many more ways than resolving the issue that it superficially appears to address. The overreaching government gets more powerful and powerful everyday as we individuals grow more powerless and powerless proportionally. You can be arrested for almost anything these days at some douche bag, power hungry cop's discretion all because of the existence of other equally stupid laws that give the government so much control. The only reason you're not in jail now is probably because there are some good cops out there that haven't chosen to abuse the written laws and put you in jail. But any cop who wants you to go to jail without moral regard, can put you there. There are enough laws that exist that cops can use against you and put you in jail just because they don't like you.



posted on May, 7 2014 @ 06:03 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
a reply to: SilentKillah



Did you read why the county was doing this in the first place? Because of residential complaints. If your neighbors are not complaining about you, you think the cop cares whether you are having a party? They aren't doing this for any reason other than to shut up the complaining residents. It's total overkill, in my opinion, but I guess the squeaky wheel gets the oil. So, you and your neighbors and friends should complain loudly to the county, and maybe they'll drop it. Just be squeakier than the others.



A cop could drive by, see me having a large gathering, and legally be an asshole and shove me off to jail while nobody complained. I understand that the law is being inacted due to residential complaints, but that is NOT what the law addresses. It does NOT address ONLY RESIDENTIAL NEIGHBORHOODS.

It addresses EVERYONE... including those who have the land and privacy not to be called out for complaints. Cops stop in front of my driveway every day to clock speeders coming down the main road. They never bother me, but if I were having a large party, they LEGALLY CAN if this law were adopted in Maryland... not far from Fairfax!

Is it clear now?



posted on May, 7 2014 @ 06:07 AM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe


What about the right to peaceably assemble? This is unconstitutional.



posted on May, 7 2014 @ 06:44 AM
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a reply to: smithjustinb

Just pointing out a fallacy in your argument. You cannot peaceably assemble anywhere you want, any time you want. There are limits. That's all.



posted on May, 7 2014 @ 06:57 AM
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a reply to: SilentKillah

I think it DOES represent residential neighborhoods of Fairfax county only, as that is the sole purpose of the proposed ordinance.

Thing is, it's not even finalized yet. Those big bad boogeymen are actually allowing a place for community feedback on the PROPOSED ordinance.


On February 18, 2014, Zoning Administration and Code Compliance staff presented the Board of Supervisors' Development Process Committee (Committee) with draft Zoning Ordinance text that limits the number of persons and frequency of large gatherings at a home. The Committee requested feedback from residents on the proposed text, and to that end, a series of open community dialogues are scheduled for this purpose as follows:

Wednesday, May 7, 2014 from 7 - 9 p.m. at South County Government Center, 8350 Richmond Highway, Alexandria, VA 22309, in the Main Conference Room (SCC221)
Monday, May 12, 2014 from 7 - 9 p.m. at Fairfax County Government Center, 12000 Government Center Parkway, Fairfax, VA 22035 in the Board Auditorium
Monday, May 19, 2014 from 7 - 9 p.m. at Lemon Road Elementary School, 7230 Idylwood Road, Falls Church, VA 22043 in the school cafeteria
These community meetings will also address proposed revisions to the Noise Ordinance. The results of this community feedback for both issues will be discussed with the Committee at a future meeting.


www.fairfaxcounty.gov...

So, those of you who live in Fairfax county (or those paranoid people from Maryland), go to those meetings and speak your peace. Let me know how it works out for ya.



posted on May, 7 2014 @ 07:10 AM
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originally posted by: kaylaluv
I think it DOES represent residential neighborhoods of Fairfax county only, as that is the sole purpose of the proposed ordinance.


It prohibits gatherings at all residential properties within the county, even ones that may not have neighbors in ear shot. The ordinance specifically states 'residences', there is no ambiguity.


Thing is, it's not even finalized yet. Those big bad boogeymen are actually allowing a place for community feedback on the PROPOSED ordinance.


You make it sound like they are doing the residents a favor by holding public hearings. They are obligated to do so as part of their county governmental requirements.



posted on May, 7 2014 @ 07:20 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv


Well some places require a notice to provide for the event and notify public of traffic changes ect ect.

Assembling in the middle of a busy intersection would not be considered peaceful. But a private home? And come on these sort of laws are always the sort that are used against the people when need be. We have the right to assemble.



posted on May, 7 2014 @ 07:23 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv

I love it..."allowing" a place for feedback. LOL.



posted on May, 7 2014 @ 07:29 AM
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a reply to: SilentKillah

Remember that the right to peaceable assemble was for the purposes of having open public talk against the government i.e King George orders to dampen discontent toward the crown found at these political rallies.

These sort of modern day laws should be seen as a danger to political meetings and a threat against the constitutional rights of the people. Unless the law makes room by exempting political meetings then it is unconstitutional.



posted on May, 7 2014 @ 07:30 AM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus


You make it sound like they are doing the residents a favor by holding public hearings. They are obligated to do so as part of their county governmental requirements.


What I'm saying is, they aren't being lawless, unconstitutional monsters, hell-bent on taking away all of our rights. They are following the rules, are they not?

I just get so tired of all the "they're out to get us and put us in FEMA camps" , "they're taking away all our guns", and "they're gonna just shoot us all in our beds and set our homes on fire" rhetoric around here.



posted on May, 7 2014 @ 07:34 AM
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a reply to: kaylaluv



What I'm saying is, they aren't being lawless, unconstitutional monsters, hell-bent on taking away all of our rights.

You know the old saying about the road to hell being paved with good intentions.

The proposed law is unconstitutional, IMO... regardless of their intentions.




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