the disinformation strategy behind the ad-nausea abuse of the "pro-russian" rhetoric and proven f

a reply to: bastion

The worst bit is the EU and US involvement is all publicly recorded and available on official .gov sites.

Yes, but you will not link to them because they do not say what you want us to think they say.

To any doubters, have a read on the German Marshal Fund site and EU or Angela Merkel's press releases on their involvement in supporting and arming anti-Russian groups in the Ukraine from 2011 onwards - there's hundreds of documents available.

Show one that shows military aid to a non-government entity. Europe has been providing loans to governments and grants to civilian NGOs. Prove otherwise.

Even the EU openly state the current interim government in Ukraine are largely Neo-Nazi thugs - the Us response 'f@ck the EU' in the leaked phonecall and repeatedly calling the EU a soft touch who are slow to act. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Where does EU openly state the current interim government are largely neo-Nazi thugs. Link to an official statement, please. As for the infamous leaked phone call, it only expresses what the US would consider desirable, it does nnnot provide any evidence that the US was taking an active role in making it happen. I dare you to print the "five billion dollar" statement in full and in context, while we're at it.

Was the op banned? What is going on with this site?

Second

a reply to: anHairInTheSoup

It's ad nauseum. I'm just sort of a grammar Nazi.

originally posted by: gladtobehere
a reply to: DJW001

The OP is referring to the connotations of being called "pro-Russian".

Much in the same way that someone willing to consider alternative explanations to world events is labeled a "conspiracy theorist" and dismissed.

This is why the dinosaur media and establishment routinely engage in name calling and personal attacks, it works.

For the record, I dont know that people defending Russia necessarily support Russia.

I think that most of us are simply pointing out the blatant, over the top, unbelievable hypocrisy of the UK, NATO and especially the US in condemning someone else for meddling in the affairs of sovereign nations (to put it mildly).

I think it has a lot to do with hypocrisy at its heart.

Most of those labeled "pro-Russia" are really more "anti-hypocrisy", they think to themselves: "The USA has been doing this for 50+ years, why are we supposed to get upset when Russia is doing it now?"

What I want to know from those "anti-hypocrisy" members, is why, if you were against the USA doing these same tactics for the last 50+ years, are you suddenly for Russia doing them now?

It is, was and always will be wrong for what the USA did and continues to do in sovereign nations; in order to be "anti-hypocrisy" shouldn't you be against Russia using USA tactics today?

Don't tell me about what he USA did in years past, to justify the same wrong tactics deployed presently by Russia.

If you are "anti-hypocrisy" then look for the hypocrisy of being against tactics used by the USA in the past and for the same tactics used in Russia presently.

God Bless,

Amazing

So we have now had a thread calling anybody who isn't pro Russia and doesn't believe in conspiracy theories are paid shills

And now this thread calling all those who question pro Russia Supporter logic and opinions are also paid shills attempting to creat some sort of conspiracy

What about our opinions OP? Do they count? It's clear that nearly every pro Russian supporter I've seen on the forum simply don't back up there claims with facts

It seems to me there is a severely desperate attempt to tar all those that actually CAN think for themselves are being feed obvious BS based on nothing more than a conspiracy

In all my 10 years on ATS I have never seen such desperate and obvious propaganda

a reply to: DJW001

I provided you with the names, organisations and dates so you could check for yourself.

Here's an academic paper on the Neo-Nazi groups the CIA train and give money and weapons to with references from intel agencies.

Here's The US money given to Ukraine - www.usaid.gov...

The EU have given £2bn to pro-Eu political parties since 91

Of which some went to train 240 Ukrainian soldiers and several million to Ukrainian nationalist youth groups Svobodia and Right Sector

Can't embed youtube on here but the EU released multiple statements when Right Sector threatened to blow up gas lines. Even the interim government condemn them here: www.bbc.co.uk...

originally posted by: brazenalderpadrescorpio
a reply to: anHairInTheSoup

It's ad nauseum. I'm just sort of a grammar Nazi.

Well, as long as you're not a grammar Cossack

a reply to: ~Lucidity

I hate grammar Cossacks! They're overly permissive with their grammar. Lol.

originally posted by: lightedhype
a reply to: DJW001

You realize there are very few countries where you will actually get black bagged for expressing contrary opnions right???

Russia is not one of those countries. America has the most prisoners on Earth. Stop with the delusion of 'American Freedom' being superior. Because it is not. I see Russian citizens put down Putin every single day in tshe comments on RT.

Also, the ProRussian thing is irking to the OP and many others because these people are NOT all "pro Russian!!" Many of them could give two #s about Russia and simply want more say in Kiev.

edit: No anger intended for you personally.

just irritated by yhe situation

You could not be more wrong.

Russia in fact leads in the world in the instances of deaths of journalists for more than ten years…

Read it right here in a 2007 article from the major Russian newspaper, RIA Novosti (written before that outlet came under Kremlin control this year):

If you think that you have less freedoms of expression in your States than in Russia, think again.

I suggest reading one of the books or works by Anna Politkovskaya who was murdered for her reporting on humans rights abuses by Russia in Chechnya.

Russia ranks second in the world in terms of the number of journalists killed on the job over the past decade, a global report said Tuesday.

The report is titled "Killing the Messenger," and is based on the world's most comprehensive survey of deaths among journalists and other news media professionals, conducted between January 1996 and June 2006 by the International News Safety Institute (INSI).
According to the report, 1,000 news media personnel have died while covering the news around the world in the past 10 years, but only a quarter of them died in wars and armed conflicts.

The majority of those killed died while reporting in their own countries.

"In many countries, murder has become the easiest, cheapest and most effective way of silencing troublesome reporting, and the more the killers get away with it the more the spiral of death is forced upwards," Rodney Pinder, Director of INSI, said in the report.

en.ria.ru...

originally posted by: yorkshirelad
Next: every member of the current Ukranian government was voted there by Ukranians.

The acting Government is not accurately representative, nor democratically legitimised to hash out momentous deals with the IMF, OR use the military against the population it is supposed to represent.
(which was ironically the loudest criticism point of the west regarding Assad's actions in Syria, remember?)

originally posted by: yorkshirelad
The pro-russians in the East keep asking for elections and yet Kiev has already stated there will be elections at the end of May.

How do you still manage to use that term in the very same thread that just outed this as disinfo?

Also, the only thing I've heard from the seperatists regarding the elections was that they insist on independently observed elections (which is a good call) and they want a referrendum about the status of the respective regions of Ukraine included (which is none of my business to comment on).
I could be wrong about that... If you have more information on this, please contribute.

I agree thought that the legislative elections taking place on May 25th are of the most importance in this crisis.

a reply to: ColCurious

The acting Government is not accurately representative, nor democratically legitimised to hash out momentous deals with the IMF, OR use the military against the population it is supposed to represent.

Why not? It is exactly the same as it was, except for a few who chose to flee the country rather than make a courageous stand.

originally posted by: yorkshirelad
The pro-russians in the East keep asking for elections and yet Kiev has already stated there will be elections at the end of May.

How do you still manage to use that term in the very same thread that just outed this as disinfo?

Why do you consider a banned member's rant to be "outing" anything?

Also, the only thing I've heard from the seperatists regarding the elections was that they insist on independently observed elections (which is a good call) and they want a referrendum about the status of the respective regions of Ukraine included (which is none of my business to comment on).
I could be wrong about that... If you have more information on this, please contribute.

Actually, we will soon see whether the separatist militants are actually pro-Russian or pro-independence. What happens if they vote not to become part of Russia?

I agree thought that the legislative elections taking place on May 25th are of the most importance in this crisis.

Elections Putin is already claiming are not valid. (Presumably, his intel is telling him they will not go his way.)

a reply to: bastion

I provided you with the names, organisations and dates so you could check for yourself.

Where?

Here's an academic paper on the Neo-Nazi groups the CIA train and give money and weapons to with references from intel agencies.

Where? Link, please.

Here's The US money given to Ukraine - www.usaid.gov...

Have you actually read the report? They are spending more money on public health in Ukraine than Congress is willing to spend in the US.

The EU have given £2bn to pro-Eu political parties since 91

Source? And how does this compare to the sums Russia has spent on pro-Russia parties?

Of which some went to train 240 Ukrainian soldiers and several million to Ukrainian nationalist youth groups Svobodia and Right Sector

What's wrong with the Ukrainian government training soldiers? As for your claim that the money went to right wing groups: documentation please.

Can't embed youtube on here but the EU released multiple statements when Right Sector threatened to blow up gas lines. Even the interim government condemn them here: www.bbc.co.uk...

Right Sector is not in government. In fact, a group of Right Sector members accused of violence have been deported. It is rumored they were sent back to Russia.

originally posted by: DJW001

The irony here is that by posting virulent anti-American propaganda on an American owned and operated site, they are exercising a freedom they are probably not afforded in their own country:

if the truth is propaganda in your eyes then why fear it or could it just be that it's is you thats trying to promote propaganda here.

Do people realy lock themselves in a building and throw petrol at each other or does the man on the street see that americans are behind these deaths for spending $5bn to ignite trouble in the Ukraine.

I can see with my own eyes who's doing the killing on TV and know that the CIA is advising the unelected government in the Ukraine so just how much more american does it need to be.

a reply to: VirusGuard

Repeating the same lie over and over again does not make it true; it only makes the liar look like a parrot.

I'm want to see Putin come out on top because im sick of seeing American foreign policies in action.....

i'd just like to see an outsider beat the house at it's own game.....in international politics...the real game...

yeah...i'd like to see Putin out-manoeuvre n.a.t.o. through politics and not war....

he came through for Syria on the international political level.....some people where not happy....

so anyone who can stick it up American foreign policy from their own patch of dirt gets my vote....

best of luck Vlad

originally posted by: DJW001
Why not? It is exactly the same as it was, except for a few who chose to flee the country rather than make a courageous stand.

So you don't see any differences between the new cabinet of Ministers of Ukraine NOW, and the one from 2012?

And you don't see a problem with the fact that a faction with just under 11% votes in 2012 - is NOW holding several key positions in the acting Government?

And you seriously think the INTERIM Government is legitimized to make momentous deals with the IMF, with immense economic consequences for future generations of Ukrainians to come, WHITHOUT their consent???

If so, then I don't know what to tell you.

originally posted by: DJW001
Why do you consider a banned member's rant to be "outing" anything?

I always thought that here on ATS the message is more important than the messenger, - and the message is still correct.

originally posted by: DJW001
Actually, we will soon see whether the separatist militants are actually pro-Russian or pro-independence. What happens if they vote not to become part of Russia?

Then so be it... as long as they have their say.

originally posted by: DJW001
Elections Putin is already claiming are not valid. (Presumably, his intel is telling him they will not go his way.)

Hm I didn't know that... that's bad.
What exactly is Putins objection with independently observed elections?
Would you mind throwing me a link /source for that?

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: anHairInTheSoup

Perhaps people are calling people who are pro-Russian pro-Russian because they are pro-Russian. Why do you suppose pro-Russians call anyone who is not pro-Russian a Nazi lover or a Fascist?

The irony here is that by posting virulent anti-American propaganda on an American owned and operated site, they are exercising a freedom they are probably not afforded in their own country: freedom to express contrary opinions. Because such a freedom becomes addictive, it will eventually lead them to want to move here, as so many have done throughout our history.


Edit to add: Oui, les Françaises aussi.

Because supporting fascists makes you a fascist.

a reply to: tri-lobe-1

seeing American foreign policies in action.....

And usual they always end in failures like Libya and the afghanistan war started by BUSH.

originally posted by: benrl

originally posted by: woodwardjnr
The pro Russian, Putin lover slurs are designed to silence debate. Some want an iron clad consensus on events in Ukraine and if you question that, be prepared to be called pro Russian. Its childish, but effective.

Yea, its all rather silly.

I would think we all would of learned from mccarthyism and the red scare, That there is nothing MORE UN-AMERICAN, than silencing the debate in such a manner.

Its repugnant to use Patriotism as a robe for their own agendas to wage war.

I would hope we would be well beyond that level of Stupid to fall for Propaganda that blatant.


ETA:

How many times must the American people learn this lesson,

Fear, is how they control us, when we let fear win, we are under their heel.

Fear is the greatest asset of the fascist. The fascist creates enemies and labels them as the aggressors to make everyone else fearful of the enemy, fearful enough to concede all liberty and security to the fascist. Anybody who does not submit to fear becomes the enemy. Knowledge identifies the real problems, and this truth becomes the first casualty of war.

This is why there's so many fascists on ATS. They see fascists in Ukraine being directly supported by fascists from their own governments, against the Evil Empire of the Cold War.

The Evil Empire is the reason why the current generation of fascists believe they trained to duck under their desks in grade school. They fail to understand that it was their fascist leaders who forced them to submit- and instead, blame the enemy, on the other side of the world.

Fascists are irrational and see the people as scientific subjects to be experimented on for their own personal gain. They get off on playing indecisiveness in acknowledging clear-as-day acts of violent fascism. They feel like they are on the winning side, and as long as they keep calling themselves democratic, in spite of its very own definition, they will regret nothing until their world collapses on them.

And that's what happened with the Nazis. Germany was destroyed by its imperial rivals after WWI, and they experienced ideological reactionarianism where the radical-right dominated based on discourses of nationalist history and future glory. The western empires fully backed the Nazis, thinking that they would contain them on the western flank while the Nazis were to annihilate the communists in the Soviet Union (which the western powers failed to do in the previous invasion of the USSR).

BUT, the hubris of the western powers failed them when their creation of hatred allied themselves with the communists and attacked the western empires out of vengeance. Europe was decimated. The Soviets ended up containing the Nazis, and the western empires rushed into Europe out of desperation to keep the communists from pacifying the fascists in all of Europe.

History is such a quaint concept. It tends to be repeated when it is not followed. Just like people who claim to be of one ideology when they are clearly from another.