Banned from Blackjack in Casinos for Card Counting - Should Casinos Have That Right?

originally posted by: randyvs
And before I could even begin to say, "Where is that
rule?". Two huge talking apes got loose from there cage

I bet their real names were 'Knuckles and Tommy No-nose"

Card counting is not and has never been considered cheating. Again if it was cheating they would take you out in hand cuffs and you would go to jail.

Blackjack goes up and down like the stock market. They really don't like guys with too much money like Ben because he can afford to bet large amounts then walk away on the up very easily.

They don't consider it counting unless you're betting huge swings like going from $100 a hand into thousands.

Having more decks in a shoe does not make it more difficult to count, it just makes counting less effective with the exception of the end of the shoe. To combat the end of the shoe advantage count, some Casinos reshuffle the cards with two or more decks unplayed (where the cut lies) at that point.

Casinos that only cut one deck out of six out of play are preferred because there is less chance of bunching up the good cards out of play.

a reply to: FlyersFan


Yes its funny listing to them whine.

They shouldn't be allowed to ban them but they do.
As another poster mentioned ATS enforces their own rules which aren't fair and are contrary to the topics and spirit of matters discussed here.
The house always wins, Casinos will always win and if need be they rig it so they do.
Gambling is a mugs game, especially in casinos or betting shops.

originally posted by: Wrabbit2000
I've always felt if someone was so highly intelligent and capable of tracking so much at once, as card counting requires to be successful? It's a real waste of true talent to be throwing it toward cheating Casinos out of a few bucks in what anyone who knows gambling is aware they react almost violently to.

No 'Almost' about it in the old days. It's said if the dead buried in the deserts around Vegas were to rise at once, the valley's population would increase by double digit %'s. I tend to think folks who have said that, have a point. I wonder how many figured card counting was legal...so what could anyone do? Errr....

It's not that difficult. You just keep hold of a number in your head, where it increases with values above 10 and decreases with values below 3. When this number is high, you make larger bets, and when this number is low, you make smaller bets. The casino staff are trained to look for this pattern, and then ask players to play any other game except Blackjack. Those large bets can be tens of thousands of dollars and maybe even higher. Casinos get round this by using multiply packs of cards.

There was one guy who won hundreds of millions at one game, the casino was so determined to get this money back, they kept a limo parked outside his home for whenever he felt "lucky" again.

a reply to: SLAYER69

I bet their real names were 'Knuckles and Tommy No-nose"

Alright, if that were the case "Knuckles" would be the italion
looking gent, with jet black curly hair stressed back tightly and greased.
The younger looking blonde and butched but sharper looking fellow,
would own the other moniker. Not a boxers nose at all, but short and
pointy.
Both decked out in taylored suits and the classic damaging rings and
watches and ear wires with mikes in the collars. No visible weapons.
Pretty good look'n gents. You wouldn't want to mess these guys up
even if you could. That's how good they looked. But they both
towered over me at 5'10.

a reply to: stargatetravels

Gambling is a mugs game, especially in casinos or betting shops.

That's really what I think it comes down to. Folks who have issues with how Casinos enforce the legal odds they're permitted to hold things to seem to figure fairness enters into anything in the real world. It doesn't. It never has and it likely never will for any length of time.

Personally, I've never walked into a casino with more money than I was willing to lose, and the $$ amount to play has always been set before I go through the front doors. It's the only way, IMO.

In that money? I assume it's a write-off to my entertainment budget. No different than movies or audio books or amusement parks. Gone. History. No hope of return on outlay. THEN..if I come out ahead or even (I generally did until the last few years out there), it's a bonus and a nice surprise to be happy about. If not? I had the good time I'd planned, lost what I expected and can leave feeling I got a good experience, since I expected no different.

Hey look, Vegas wasn't built because people won at cards. LoL! The House always wins in the end.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

It definitely feels a lot better when you just count the money as lost up front. Nothing like stopping by a craps table with what little is left after drinks and a concert and walking out with every penny you came in with. Makes a small win seem bigger.

Begs the question if some of these big time Casinos aren't actively employing dealers that are engaging in card counting themselves for a bonus under the table.

Consider that most of the people who own these establishments are cronies that have been caught rigging Roulette tables etc. for decades I wouldn't put it pass them for a second. Of course they can't have a level playing field.

I don't think it should be banned. It's part of the game you're basically saying that anyone that truly understands the game isn't allowed to play, because then that person has the advantage instead of us. I think it's ridiculous that you're telling your customer they better not know what they are doing. Don't be using your brain thing during the game punk!

a reply to: Konduit

If someone doesn't think the casinos are cheating, that someone is either exceptionally honest or exceptionally unimaginative themselves. Why do you think they switch dealers? Because they think one dealer is luckier than another? Or because there's something different about what that fixer is doing when he sits down at the table?

a reply to: FlyersFan

If I can say something about card counting, it's actually easy if you use the hi lo system. I've done a bit of research on the MIT blackjack team (and maybe a watch of. 21) and how they did it was they kept a count ie some numbers count as +1 or -1 thus using simple math to keep track

Why gamble? I like to gamble with some friends.. local poker games are great. But why play anything in a gambling town? I dunno.. maybe it's just me, but I've never liked a game where they say "Look.. we guarantee if you play, we'll give you 97% of your money back!"

Listening to a professional gambler.. they asked.. do the people ever win over the house. He said.. flat out.. professional or not.. no. The house always win. So my advice? Don't play a game where you are guaranteed to lose more than you win.

ITA with the view that card counting is not cheating, it's the nature of the game, or should be but then the house would never win. Banning it is simply a way for the house to control profit margin. BTW the house cheats all the time. Do you really think every card shoe is stacked fairly?

Every slot machine is programmed for a certain profit margin. Winners are programmed to keep the players hoping and spending. No luck involved at all.

Do you think those roulette machines aren't rigged? And who carries the most loaded dice? Actually the table itself is rigged to influence the dice roll. Not every table, not every die, but it's not uncommon.

House cheats are as common as bar managers watering down the bottles.

Here in Michigan the casinos use automatic card shuffling machines and only one deck. They only play a few hands then throw the deck out. From what I've seen it's impossible to card count with them. Some states it's illegal for casinos to use the machines but not here.

I play video poker and use the perfect play technique. I definitely have an advantage against the casino's. I've won thousands over the years. Year after year I've won more then I've lost. I'm ahead $4000 this year. Some people think you can't have an edge on the house with a machine but you can with video poker. Video poker has one of the highest winning percentages in the casino. If you play the game right and know to play using perfect play the winning odds are pretty high.

I turned $60 last Thursday into this. I was up to $1700 but left with $1500.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: ChaoticOrder

Casinos do not have that much of an edge. The house edge in most casino games is astronomically small compared to the 'house edge' in state run lotteries. That is why I call the lottery the stupid tax.

i keep seeing this brought up
and its ridiculous
the difference is the lottery is supposed to be a kind of optional tax where the money is supposed to go to schools while casinos only intended purpose is to fatten the wallets of the owner

you see in one the money you lose goes to fund education..... the future of our economy and country
in the other the money you lose goes to some a#%holes new yacht

but yeah theyre totally the same thing

Should they have the right? Meh Idk, but they do. It's their business and they decide who stays and who goes for a variety of reasons.
I'll note though that I have been to a casino where the black jack dealers bent the cards a certain way by deliberately sliding and jamming them into this little plastic case in the corner in such a way so they could bend the corners of certain cards to know what they are to use to their advantage. Was told by inside people and saw it for myself.

a reply to: FlyersFan

They can ask you to leave for any reason they like. It's their casino. You have the right to turn anyone away from your house even if they offer you money.

It's not against the law to count cards if you can do it in your head. It's fair game. It is illegal to use external equipment to aid and assist in card counting.

Either way. The casino can ask you to leave anytime for any reason. And that is fair enough to me

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
The guy is a freakin millionaire yet chooses to cheat on card games.

How is counting cards 'cheating'?? Isn't it just playing a game well?
Isn't that the point of the game?

Card counting is not cheating. And I hope "card counters" continue to take as much money from the Casino's as possible, before being asked to leave of course

If these Casino's are so worried about losing to "card counters", then why do they keep rolling out the red carpet for them and giving them the 5-star treatment to lure them to their Casino. Why, because they are hoping they will slip up and give the money back to that Casino. But if they don't slip up, the red carpet gets rolled up and they are asked to leave.

And with the amount of drug money that Casino's willingly launder each year, I wouldn't be too worried about card counters taking their profits. While the drug money keeps going through the casino's, then their profits will always be there, regardless of any loses along the way. I'm still yet to hear of a card counter sending a Casino broke, have you ?