Banned from Blackjack in Casinos for Card Counting - Should Casinos Have That Right?

Nvm I'm outa here

a reply to: DietJoke

I'm just trying to understand why they can ban people from playing a game that they offer. The people aren't breaking the law and they are just playing well. That's the point of the game.

My suggestion:

If you card count, make sure to create a false pattern of losses that still result in gains over time.

If you can card count, you can definitely do this.

originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
The guy is a freakin millionaire yet chooses to cheat on card games.

How is counting cards 'cheating'?? Isn't it just playing a game well?
Isn't that the point of the game?

originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
a reply to: FlyersFan

It's their casino, their rules, so of they wish to ban people for counting cards they're free to do it.

How embarrassing for Ben Afflek! The guy is a freakin millionaire yet chooses to cheat on card games. Seems like he may have a little gambling addiction going on.

Card counting is not cheating, it's using probabilities to know when to bet more or less based on what's left in the deck. If it were classed as cheating he would have been arrested.

a reply to: FlyersFan

No that is NOT the ULTIMATE point of the game!

The ultimate point is that the Casino PROFITS FROM YOU!

End of story!

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
Absolutely it should be a businesses right to ban anyone who breaks the rules. .

Is it against the rules to be playing the game well?? It's a game. The object of the game is to win. So why ban someone who is playing the game. Playing isn't breaking rules ... it's just playing.

Card counting is the reason most big casinos now use up to 10 decks in a shoe at black jack tables. It makes it much harder for counters to keep track of the plus and minus status of the decks for placing larger bets on certain hands.

Des

a reply to: Jennyfrenzy

Counting is not cheating, it is not illegal. The only time a casino cares about counting is when someone hurts their profits.

He beat the game, getting banned from the blackjack tables for counting is almost like a trophy to some. Afflek also likes to play highstakes poker with poker sharks. Gambling like he does is not much different than playing the stock market.

originally posted by: FlyersFan
a reply to: DietJoke

I'm just trying to understand why they can ban people from playing a game that they offer. The people aren't breaking the law and they are just playing well. That's the point of the game.

Simply put? It's not part of the game, not designed to be, and it's an exploit. They WOULD outlaw it..if they could actually articulate what was being outlawed without a Judge looking at them like they had the brains of a 5yr old.

"Your Honor, we wish to argue that it's illegal to count objects passing within the view of the player by strictly using their eyes and brain"

"..and how would you know?" A judge might inquire...and there kills even that much for ever getting what they want.

However..when you supply the 'How will they know', by getting sloppy enough to get caught using an exploit? They gotcha for policy to ban, even if they can't pursue it under Nevada gaming law.

* Think of it like Jury Nullification. It's legal...true..but say those words in the setting of a Jury pool, and you may not need doors to exit the courthouse. They may throw you out a window, instead.

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Jennyfrenzy
The guy is a freakin millionaire yet chooses to cheat on card games.

How is counting cards 'cheating'?? Isn't it just playing a game well?
Isn't that the point of the game?

But, ya gotta admit, it IS interesting how being smart/clever is demonized as "cheating," isnt it?

DO NOT BE TOO AWARE OR INTELLIGENT, OR YOU ARE CHEATING AT LIFE!

Really though, it does come down to profit. Its certainly a questionable move, imo, but its the way of the world. Its how pretty much everything and everyone operates in our society. If something gives you an advantage against those with more power, you can be assured it will be regulated/restricted in some way. This is just one manifestation of that ideology.

We even see the public programming present with this one, as many (if not most) of the general populace will call it "cheating."

Ultimately they can kick/ban you for any reason...clothes, knowledge, you smell weird, etc. Anything not genetic is fair game overall...

That's part of owning a private business...you have the right to refuse service.

a reply to: FlyersFan

The simple response would be...

Either you stop me when I'm loosing or let me be when I'm winning.

Casinos do the exact same thing to GET your money. I don't understand the double standard when it comes to you taking their money. There should be laws about that. It's not a game of chance when they make the games to take your money. They're not exactly redistributing the wealth. They're making so very much more than they're giving away.

They'll take your cars, your home, everything.... But they wont let you apply simple logic and math techniques to even the odds? How sad and messed up is that?!?

Nvm I'm outa here

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: buster2010
Of course the casinos should have a right to not allow card counting. As long as it isn't based on discrimination they have the right to refuse service to whoever they please.

That's just it ... A business should be able to deny service to whoever they wish as long as it's not based on discrimination, but isn't this a matter of discrimination? They are discriminating against smart people and good players??

No it isn't discrimination. Let the counter prove that the casino is discriminating against them because they are doing what the casino considers cheating.

a reply to: FlyersFan
It is against the rules to alter game play or adjust odds, should the casino be able to adjust the odds as well mid action?
Many casinos are moving to continues shufflers, the real issue is many casinos allow whales to adjust game play slightly and when they lose they cry foul but really that pit boss should be fired for allowing the adjustments. Casinos normally will not call someone out they will simply do whatever it takes to throw them off, faster dealer rotations, faster dealers, slower talkative dealers, mucking hands, ect.

I am with FlyersFan here, no reason they should be allowed to ban you just because you know how the game works..
I understand it is there business so they can refuse service to any one. Just seems like a cop out to turn the counter into the "bad guy" about it.

Counting cards is not an exploit IMO, just part of the game that most people do not, cause most can not, do.
As Des pointed out the house can make it harder for people to count that cards, with the amount of money those places bring in I am surprised they haven't figured out how to stop it.

Don't hate the player, hate the game.

a reply to: StallionDuck

They'll take your cars, your home, everything.... But they wont let you apply simple logic and math techniques to even the odds? How sad and messed up is that?!?

Its their casino, their rule remember

originally posted by: StallionDuck
Casinos do the exact same thing to GET your money. I don't understand the double standard when it comes to you taking their money. There should be laws about that. It's not a game of chance when they make the games to take your money. They're not exactly redistributing the wealth. They're making so very much more than they're giving away.

They'll take your cars, your home, everything.... But they wont let you apply simple logic and math techniques to even the odds? How sad and messed up is that?!?

The only step you forgot is "public awareness of the cheating behavior." In doing so, it actually demonizes the customer for doing the exact same thing the casino does. With the exception that the casino does it on every single game in the establishment.

If they didnt, they would probably go out of business. Counting cards wouldnt put any casino out of business, obviously, but it does eat into the "card counting" that the casino does. If it eats into their profit even by 0.01%, you can be assured it will be addressed.

As for the double-standard.. well, there is a lot of that going around nowadays.

a reply to: FlyersFan

Counting cards has always been considered cheating by the House. Its their house, their rules. But again, as always, have the odds stacked in their favor, like playing multiple decks at once.

a reply to: ParanoidAmerican

On a side note it is his own fault for getting caught, never win enough to draw attention, bet lower that the table whale, it really isn't rocket science.