Banned from Blackjack in Casinos for Card Counting - Should Casinos Have That Right?

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posted on May, 4 2014 @ 12:48 PM
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We all know what card counting is. It's when a person uses a casino card game strategy while playing blackjack to determine whether the next hand is likely to give a probable advantage to the player or to the dealer. The player keeps a mental tally of the cards played so that he or she can calculate the probability of certain cards being dealt. That's where the advantage comes in for the player.

The Basics of Card Counting - It looks like a lot of math work and high end memory capacity to be able to do this. At least from my vantage it looks that way. Someone would have to be a pretty smart cookie to be able to do this - IMHO.

Casinos HATE card counters and professional gamblers. The reason being, the card counters win the game instead of the casino winning. The casinos determine when people are playing blackjack 'too good' and so they haul the person off the table and ban them from playing the game for the rest of their life.

My question for ATS - should Casinos be allowed to do that? Sure, establishments can decide who they wish to serve and not serve within the law. I can understand that if a person is causing problems or being obnoxious then an establishment would walk them out or cut them off. But card counters (or professional gamblers) are doing nothing wrong. They are just playing the game and winning. So should casinos be allowed to cut people off from just simply playing the game? Playing the game isn't illegal. So why is it legal for casinos to say 'you are playing too good, so bye-bye'???


The reason I bring this up ... Ben Afflack has been banned from the Hard Rock Casino for card counting. He is known as a smart card shark ... very, very good with poker and blackjack. He has been known to be playing multiple hands at the same time at the tables .... hands with tens of thousands of dollars down on them. So his being banned tickled my brain for a thread idea at ATS.

Ben Affleck Banned from Playing Blackjack at Las Vegas Hard Rock

While on a “romantic getaway” with his wife Jennifer Garner just prior to starting production in the highly-anticipated “Batman vs. Superman” blockbuster, a source close to the A-list actor confirmed that he was asked to leave the famed Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in Las Vegas on Tuesday.

The high-rollers tables where Affleck was playing blackjack was reportedly infiltrated by security after he was caught “counting cards” – a gambling strategy that often refers to obtaining a sufficient count on the number, distribution and high-card location of cards in order to optimize the winning of tricks. It’s not technically illegal, but heavily frowned upon by casinos.

Affleck was subsequently banned for life from playing blackjack at the venue.

“Ben was banned from playing blackjack not booted from the casino because as the security said ‘you are too good at the game,” a source told FOX411. “The hotel staff was really nice. They told him he could play other games and ended up getting him and Jennifer a car back to their hotel.”




posted on May, 4 2014 @ 12:54 PM
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Just like ATS can say somethings are not allowed here,

So too can the casino.


Play their game, you follow their rules, period.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 12:54 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Casinos have been banning card counters forever, it's nothing new. Casinos aren't about to change anything that puts the odds in favor of the public who come to gambol. Lawmakers in counties where casinos are, are all bought and paid for. Same old same old. Just ask Harry Reid, some of his best buddies and closest business political ties, started out in the casino industry in Nevada.

Des

edit on 4-5-2014 by Destinyone because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 12:55 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

It's their place, they can ban whoever they want, just as long as its not based on race, gender, and/or sexual preference.

This is why people should play poker. Play against the player, not the house.
edit on 4-5-2014 by Swills because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 12:58 PM
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Of course the casinos should have a right to not allow card counting. As long as it isn't based on discrimination they have the right to refuse service to whoever they please. If people do not like the rules of a casino then don't go there it's that simple. Card counters cut into their profit and no company likes to lose profit.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 12:58 PM
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I've always felt if someone was so highly intelligent and capable of tracking so much at once, as card counting requires to be successful? It's a real waste of true talent to be throwing it toward cheating Casinos out of a few bucks in what anyone who knows gambling is aware they react almost violently to.

No 'Almost' about it in the old days. It's said if the dead buried in the deserts around Vegas were to rise at once, the valley's population would increase by double digit %'s. I tend to think folks who have said that, have a point. I wonder how many figured card counting was legal...so what could anyone do? Errr....



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:00 PM
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What generally happens to someone who is suspected of counting cards is they are told to cash out, congratulations, and are kindly asked to not play at their blackjack tables again. There is actually a large database of known card counters, and if one is spotted at the blackjack tables the bosses will ask them to play another game.

It is the casino's right to ban counters from the blackjack tables. Even the weakest games, slot machines at a casino have much better odds than any lottery the state's offer.
edit on 4-5-2014 by jrod because: o



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:00 PM
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originally posted by: benrl
Just like ATS can say somethings are not allowed here,

So too can the casino.


Play their game, you follow their rules, period.


I agree!

However how can they prove someone was card counting? Other then winning more often then most, really can they prove it?



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:00 PM
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Absolutely it should be a businesses right to ban anyone who breaks the rules. No matter the business or the rule. That being said I also don't feel that it is cheating even though it is against the rules.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:00 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Yes they absolutely have that right!

It IS about PROFITS!!!

If one doesn't like that then simply don't frequent those casino's!

If there is an inherent right to gamble that should be taken care of by state and federal government run lotteries!



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:02 PM
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originally posted by: benrl
Play their game, you follow their rules, period.


Sure. And professional gamblers follow the rules. It's just that they are good players and the casino doesn't like it. They only want players who can't win. So the question is ... since the people aren't doing anything illegal, should the casino be able to ban people who can play the game well??



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:02 PM
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It's not cheating, but if you know how to count the casino loses it's edge. At thousands of dollars a hand, yeah, they'll boot you.
If it was just a regular guy playing 10-100 bucks a hand I doubt they would take notice or even care.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:03 PM
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originally posted by: buster2010
Of course the casinos should have a right to not allow card counting. As long as it isn't based on discrimination they have the right to refuse service to whoever they please.


That's just it ... A business should be able to deny service to whoever they wish as long as it's not based on discrimination, but isn't this a matter of discrimination? They are discriminating against smart people and good players??



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:04 PM
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originally posted by: ParanoidAmerican
Absolutely it should be a businesses right to ban anyone who breaks the rules. .

Is it against the rules to be playing the game well?? It's a game. The object of the game is to win. So why ban someone who is playing the game. Playing isn't breaking rules ... it's just playing.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:05 PM
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originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: benrl
Just like ATS can say somethings are not allowed here,

So too can the casino.


Play their game, you follow their rules, period.


I agree!

However how can they prove someone was card counting? Other then winning more often then most, really can they prove it?


"we reserve the right"

Thats all they need.

ETA: If you go through the trouble of learning to cheat the system as a skilled player, and tilt the odds in your favor, you should accept that the casino might also take steps to tilt the odds back.

Legally Refusing the right of service, as long as its not along protected class reasons, is fine.
edit on 4-5-2014 by benrl because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:06 PM
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Casinos have had the odds stacked against the player and in the houses favor for centuries, Figuring out how to even the odds should be applauded not banned.

Oh, wait.

"It's theft" and 'Cheating" -- was referencing the player counting not the house stacking the odds in their favor.
edit on 4-5-2014 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:07 PM
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a reply to: benrl

I agree ... they have the right. But SHOULD they have the right? The person is just playing the game that the casino set out for people to play. And he's playing it well. So ... why should the casino have the right to ban them?? I can understand banning someone who is spewing obnoxious language or is a mean drunk, etc etc .... but why should the casino be able to legally ban someone who hasn't broken the law and hasn't done anything except play the game the casino set up for people to play?



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:09 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

You conflate private business with Government!

If it was a government casino I would agree with you ... BUT it is a private casino and they can discriminate!



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: ManBehindTheMask

I can count cards at blackjack. The casino can tell by one's betting pattern. When the deck is hot a counter will bet more and less or even walk away when the deck is cold. This is easy to spot.

Counting alone does not one person in one game a huge edge. The movie 21 was loosely based on the MIT BlackJack team, the used to team to maximize their edge and minimize their risk.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 01:10 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

Guess this puts me in the opposition so far but I say card counting should be allowed. If someone has the mental capacity to track the trends within dealt hands then too bad for the house. Having a good memory is no crime, unlike a lot of what goes on in these casinos. Count away is my motto.

Or if the casinos don't like it then they need to post signs at the entrances:
    No shoes,
    No shirts,
    And smart people,
    NO SERVICE!

Truth in rules and advertising required for casinos.
edit on 799pm5151pm12014 by Bassago because: (no reason given)





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