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The Only Way God is Real.

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posted on May, 8 2014 @ 10:13 AM
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a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts


To discuss this subject would require you to get rid of your preconceptions about what the concept of god entails (watching over us, lol. The old guy in the sky, right? Anthropomorphism) and to do a minimum of research from your side to accept my inputs without being ridiculed because you are simply not equipped to understand what I talk about.


It might help to first establish an official definition of what "god" means. Good luck with that.


If you want my vision of God as a pantheist (just repeating myself here, again, because obviously no atheists reads my post), no it's not a person watching over us, nor a philosophical device. It's an intelligence permeating the universe. Including you.


So an actual consciousness, then. A distinct entity whose entirety of being includes, but is not limited to, the manifestation of this universe and everything in it.


If you truly want to deny ignorance, I suggest you consider everything you think you know about god and religion as incorrect (it is mostly anyway), and read about that, not on an internet board, but through serious sources, and not solely via the lens of biblical literalism.


Given the vocal prevalence of Christianity on these forums, I generally enter these discussions assuming that the being in question is the Christian god, unless otherwise specified.




posted on May, 8 2014 @ 10:16 AM
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originally posted by: ArtemisE
a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

So your saying the bible is a philosophy book. I agree 100%.


It's a simplification, but for the sake of it, yes.

The OT is a compilation of Jewish writings including their creation myths, as well as accounts that haven't been proved as historical but feels closer to the epics you find in many cultures, like the Gita, the Eddas or the Story of Gilgamesh. They may be based on historical events but are of course romanticized because these tales are mainly for teaching the values of a culture, not it's true historical history.

Then you also have many philosophical and mystical discussion too, as well as psalms etc.

Then the NT is a description of the story of Jesus and his teachings. The teachings being more important than the veracity of the events obviously (being a Christian is about values, not blind belief). I believe in the historicity of Jesus but I have no problem saying that a great deal of his story is probably deformed for teaching purpose too.


So basically yes we agree.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 10:19 AM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts
Given the vocal prevalence of Christianity on these forums, I generally enter these discussions assuming that the being in question is the Christian god, unless otherwise specified.


You assume too much and it's a disservice to proper discussion.

I explained my position many time, and also warned than many ATSers think the Jewish god or the protestant interpretation of the Bible are the only one in the world, while they are in fact, a minority.

Belief in a deity is prevalent in the world, but not belief in Yahweh or a literal Bible.

The thread title was about god. Not the Jewish god nor the Bible.


Furthermore, this was literally in the first post of the OP as a disclaimer:

Secondly the god I am referencing is not really the Hebrew god. I am more referencing the concept of an omnipotent, all knowing, all seeing creator. Tho if my theory is true. It wouldn't discount the Hebrew god either. - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Assumption was not welcome.
edit on 8-5-2014 by SpaceGoatFarts because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 10:31 AM
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a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts


You assume too much and it's a disservice to proper discussion.


As I said, "unless otherwise specified". If you aren't capable of specifying your claims and ideas, then the discussion is pointless anyway.


Secondly the god I am referencing is not really the Hebrew god. I am more referencing the concept of an omnipotent, all knowing, all seeing creator.


I am having a difficult time seeing the difference here. That's like saying I'm interested in getting a dog, but not a terrier. More like a small, loud, energetic, furry ankle-biter kind of dog.


Assumption was not welcome.


Coming from the theist, that's funny.

edit on 8-5-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 10:36 AM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
As I said, "unless otherwise specified". If you aren't capable of specifying your claims and ideas, then the discussion is pointless anyway.


What part of "I explained my position many time, and also warned than many ATSers think the Jewish god or the protestant interpretation of the Bible are the only one in the world, while they are in fact, a minority." can you not understand?

You just selectively read what suits you. As you did with all my previous posts.


originally posted by: AfterInfinity

Coming from the theist, that's funny.


I made no assumptions regarding your beliefs. I'm open to discussion with atheists.

Many of them are actually very smart and educated and able to have a respectful discussion. I have much respect for them.

Not so much for those who talk without listening and just want confirmation of their beliefs by ignoring or ridiculing everything else.


I hope you are very young otherwise that would mean something else that is not really at your advantage.



Oh and FYI you make 22 posts per day here.

I would be worried if I was you. Such a figure is problematic and you should probably get a life outside the internet, learning about the rest of the world.
edit on 8-5-2014 by SpaceGoatFarts because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 11:01 AM
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a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts


What part of "I explained my position many time, and also warned than many ATSers think the Jewish god or the protestant interpretation of the Bible are the only one in the world, while they are in fact, a minority." can you not understand?

You just selectively read what suits you. As you did with all my previous posts.


Okay.



I made no assumptions regarding your beliefs. I'm open to discussion with atheists.

Many of them are actually very smart and educated and able to have a respectful discussion. I have much respect for them.

Not so much for those who talk without listening and just want confirmation of their beliefs by ignoring or ridiculing everything else.


I hope you are very young otherwise that would mean something else that is not really at your advantage.



Oh and FYI you make 22 posts per day here.

I would be worried if I was you. Such a figure is problematic and you should probably get a life outside the internet, learning about the rest of the world.


But I'm not the topic, so...



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 11:05 AM
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Something something... isn't there a ToS thing about attacking other members? Mods?

I'm not engaging ina conversation where the best rebuttal is pointing fingers and picking other individuals apart.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 11:10 AM
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a reply to: Everlastingknowitall

Says the one who called me an ignorant. That's cute



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 11:21 AM
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a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

I suppose I should have reviewed the post closer. Ignorant was not the word I wrote, but I see that it did go up. Thanks, Apple.. Obtuse is what I think I meant, in reference to your method of responses. I would not claim to know anyone enough to label them ignorant. At least it didn't correct to stupid, because at least ignorance is curable. Deny it and all that, right? Don't overthink it. There was no intent to offend.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 11:32 AM
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originally posted by: Everlastingknowitall
ignorance
[...]
I apologize for goatfarts, because while he/she may represent a significant portion of the ignorant [...]

We were designed to make use of our intellect, not check it at the church door.



No need for apology, I think I got the message clearly, though I'm not offended.

I usually let irony take care of those who lack humility.

It's more than enough for me to see you regret these words.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: spy66

I like how you skipped replying to my last statement and then continue to contradict yourself at every corner. Accordng to you science can be used to support both arguments.
and...


Both sides of the argument must base their argument on pure faith. Nothing else.



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 11:55 AM
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SGF - care to explain why history in your opinion is flawed? What part(s)?

So in absence of anything better, SGF will now check how many post everyone has... that is really ironic, being posted on an online forum...


From what I see, you like to talk to people who will politely be quiet and not object to your misconceptions...



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 12:11 PM
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originally posted by: g0dhims3lf
a reply to: spy66

I like how you skipped replying to my last statement and then continue to contradict yourself at every corner. Accordng to you science can be used to support both arguments.
and...


Both sides of the argument must base their argument on pure faith. Nothing else.


Thanks. I thought you would.

But i was actually pointing at you


edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 8 2014 @ 05:26 PM
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a reply to: SuperFrog

Just reading through and you talk about History being flawed so maybe this was in reply to me? As i brought it up? Just wondering, not sure



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 02:47 AM
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originally posted by: SuperFrog
SGF - care to explain why history in your opinion is flawed? What part(s)?

So in absence of anything better, SGF will now check how many post everyone has... that is really ironic, being posted on an online forum...


From what I see, you like to talk to people who will politely be quiet and not object to your misconceptions...


You are too funny. And sure have a lot of comprehension issues.

First I never said history is flawed. I called the Bible what it is. A collection of stories and myths, with some historical origins, and romanticized in a lot of cases. If you claim the Bible is an perfectly accurate account of Jewish history I have bad news for you. And yet it's a great book. As long as you don't read it literally from start to end, but use critical analysis like anyone should for ancient testimonies.

Secondly the post count wasn't a rebuttal or an attack. It was a gentle warning. Internet addiction is a real thing. I answered to every question or argument made to me. Yet I can't say that the same has been done for my arguments.

For example I posted a list of Christian scientists and it was called disinformation. I offered to clarify for those who don't believe it. I'm still waiting for feedback but I don't see any because of course that was the truth.

Finally, I don't need passive people to agree with my posts, I just expected a minimum of respect and constructive discussion instead of being called an ignorant or people putting words in my mouth that I never said.

I'm really open to many possibilities and I don't claim to have the absolute truth. Yet many on this thread seem to think they do and are incapable of exchanging beyond posting their opinion and stating anything else is incorrect because...


Does god exist? I don't know. I just said I believe in a universal intelligence.

Can the Bible be used to prove/disprove god, creation or evolution? No. The Bible is not an argument excepted for Bible literalists, and the most intelligent Christians in the world all agree to say there is no correlation between scientific discoveries and the stories in the Bible, because the Bible isn't a science manual.

I'm aware there is a lot of ATSers who do believe in a literal garden of eden or adam and eve, but they always forget they represent a minority and the Church position on science is clear. Religion is about spiritual matters, not material matters. To claim otherwise denotes a misunderstanding of the role of religions.



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 04:58 AM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: SpaceGoatFarts

I think the reception would be a wee bit warmer if the results of mixing god and science were more encouraging. In the end, God isn't making medicine, we are. God isn't making better smoke detectors, we are. God isn't designing more effective security systems or formulating solutions to economic disasters, we are. And for every prayer God answers, dozens more die or suffer because he didn't answer theirs. God always falls short in some regard, while we at least have a reason to fall short. We're only human, and we're still getting it done. And I think that makes a huge difference to some people. Measurable results versus biased speculation.


i think you/we are getting nothing "done"

you would make nothing if it wasn't for God. "hey!! look at this! we could do this with that!"
"did you make that?"
"NO! it was there! i just put it together!!"

can't even feed everyone. fail.

NK is God's problem? really?



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 05:16 AM
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originally posted by: SuperFrog

originally posted by: MrConspiracy
Whilst I am well aware of the imperfection of our human bodies - I can't think for one second how this disproved design. I think you're too hung up on the word Intelligent. ID is the common term. During the big bang, it might not have made a BANG noise, but, we call it the "big bang" because it's what everyone knows.

Would you rather we called ID... concious design? If you hate the fact that nothing is perfect enough to allow the word intelligent to be used.

There is no design nor designer... there is no evidence for either one... It does not matter what you call it, there is no evidence for it.



originally posted by: MrConspiracy
Yes, science has changed the way we see many things. You've picked up on a strange topic to disprove God. Hearing voices once meant a message from God(s) now it means you may have a mental illness. Was this the best option to take? Hearing voices has been proven not to be God ergo, God isn't real?

No, you got it wrong. While we can't disprove something that does not exist and we have no evidence for, tho, we can disprove accounts like for example mental illness signs in the story. Sure, many stories like that do question rest of the book?




originally posted by: MrConspiracy
I don't know about you but during my time as a catholic school student I learnt a LOT abut good morals, and how to be a good person - Not all of it came from the Bible either - SHOCK AND AWE. I'm sure this teaching of moral values spreads beyond the Catholic education system though.

I went to a non-religious, multi-cultural "high school" and I was once again taught religious studies in which it didn't do me or anyone any harm.

However, I do agree that what is taught in schools, particularly in history, is very flawed. But religious studies, I feel, does no harm. If anything, it makes people less ignorant (well, that was the hope
) because whether you like it or not, belief in God is going to exist. And if you don't agree with it, tough, but learn to accept others do.


I find it quite amusing that you found moral stories form bible being good and no harm coming from them, while science is again 'flawed'. I have no problem with people believing what they want, but claiming science being flawed because does not goes well with their belief, like in your example - that is not anymore your belief, but just science ignorance - exactly how belief system is danger to civilization today.

Believe all your like, but don't claim something you don't understand is flawed just because you had a feeling...



what get's me is that you people "know"

you kinda know crap. really.

funny how ya want to take credit for God's works.

from ford to fission.

pretty funny, if you ask me.

oh, and everything wrong in the world we live in, is His fault. lol!!

figure out how to hook a tree up to run your refrigerator.



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 05:22 AM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
a reply to: MrConspiracy


I really dislike how you "science" aficionados talk about "but we have no evidence of God" Well, there's a lot we don't have evidence for but people still believe in.


I'm not a science aficionado, I'm a student of science. There's a difference.


"What I call "having a mind of my own" is crafting a meaning for my own life with my own two hands instead of taking it by spoon with the Ye Olde Bible diet."

What about those who don't hold their beliefs in ID solely on the Bible and religion? Why must belief in God = 100% belief in the Bible? Can't you seemingly "more logical tinkers" make that differentiation between how much you hate the Bible and how someone's belief in something other than atheism might not be 100% bible based?


Two points to make here. One, if you believe in God, then you must believe in his written word, right? Not some of it, not pieces of it, all of it. His written word. If you wouldn't do it with your mother's will, then you should not do it with the written word of God. At least, that's how I understand it. Maybe you guys are more liberal with how you respect the sacred texts of your deity. Which brings me to point two - it is not my understanding that anywhere in the Bible, which is (again, to my understanding) the official guide to God's will and plan, is there any scripture explaining how a disciple may later filter through its passages and pay heed to one chapter but not another.




apply what you believe believers believe, to your own self.

just because your beliefs change everyday, don't make you holier than thou.

like that's some kind of good thing. fail!!!




posted on May, 9 2014 @ 05:30 AM
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originally posted by: MrConspiracy
a reply to: AfterInfinity

Not really a difference, and...

Wait, so because I don't take the Bible literally I'm not a good Christian?

I was raised a Catholic but do I follow all it's teachings to the word? No. Do I still believe in ID. Yes.

You're getting in to how good of a Christian I am, and that's not really the topic. I'll be the first to admit that if you were to ask a devoted Christian, they'd say I wasn't a great one. But I pray, I believe and I try to be the best person I can be. So sure, I might not be the best Christian around but it doesn't take away my beliefs.

Also, my beliefs may not even be that "Christian" at times. Although I believe in a higher power, I ponder what life is and where we came from etc etc - all those fun things. But when it concerns the Bible... it's a book I respect, it's a book I feel has done a LOT of good (and bad - I'm not a fool) and a book that holds a lot of importance to society.

The more I ponder my existence the closer I come to feeling part of a bigger plan. A bigger "reason" if you will for us to be here. What/Who/Where is God? I really couldn't tell you - But in terms of us... I think we're more than just flesh and bones and I whole heartedly believe in something after the physical. - And not out of fear because there's nothing to lose if all there is after this life is a hole in the ground is there? I believe out of logic and a true faith. and like i've said before, without Faith you TRULY can't understand it.


yes, you'd be hard pressed to find a christian that would not admit they weren't a sinner.

yet these scientisimists will shout that they are pure as the driven snow. then again, they don't have any sins.
i wish i could believe that crap.

they know everything too, btw.



posted on May, 9 2014 @ 05:39 AM
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originally posted by: [post=17900772]tsingtao

yet these scientisimists will shout that they are pure as the driven snow. then again, they don't have any sins.
i wish i could believe that crap.

they know everything too, btw.



Show me a single scientists who claims to be "pure as the driven snow" or to "know everything". You can't, because you've made this all up. This is nothing more than a reflection of your own bias and ignorant prejudice.
edit on 9-5-2014 by GetHyped because: (no reason given)




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