Bush's visit to Ottawa - the menu, the demonstrations

Originally posted by Otts
Bush - "I'm the kind of fella who does what I think is right (...) some people don't like that, that's their right"

Martin - "Obviously there are disagreements on various issues of foreign policy and commerce (...) but we have common shared values, and a shared optimism."

EDITED for typo

"I'd like to thank the Canadians who came out to wave..." *pause*
"...with all five fingers."

*snickers*

Question about the mad cow crisis:

Bush - "I fully understand the pressure put on Canadian ranchers (...) I hope we can get this issue solved as soon as possible, there's a lot of bureaucrats involved, a lot of regulations (...) I don't know if you have a bureaucracy in Canada, but we have one in America."

Martin - "We hope to obtain a favorable decision (...)"

They also discussed the issue of softwood lumber.

Martin - "There is something the matter with our dispute-settling mechanism, that it allows disputes to go on and on... we need to find a better way."

Does North America need to have a common defense perimeter?

Bush - "We've got an obligation to defend our respective countries (...) [talks about being impressed with Martin's commitment to share information and data] and it's a challenge, how do we make sure that everyone that goes through the border is known to both countries, and how we expedite trade."

Originally posted by Otts
Question about the mad cow crisis:

Bush - "I fully understand the pressure put on Canadian ranchers (...) I hope we can get this issue solved as soon as possible, there's a lot of bureaucrats involved, a lot of regulations (...) I don't know if you have a bureaucracy in Canada, but we have one in America."

Give Bush credit for his humour. "I don't know if you have a bureaucracy in Canada..." LOL. Working for the Canadian federal governmment I can proudly say that bureaucracy is alive and well here in Canada.

Peace,
Lukefj

Originally posted by Otts
I was just expressing amazement at seeing Bush in that venue that I see everyday on the news.

But hey, since you're talking about my "crazed" politicians, in this case former PM Jean Chr�tien, I agree with all the decisions he made re Iraq and foreign policy. Actually, 80 percent of Canadians agreed with them.

However, I don't agree with what member of Parliament Carolyn Parrish did - stomping on the figurine of Bush. That's not constructive.

the only reason Chretien pulled the plug on Iraq was to leave a nice diplomatic mess for Martin, who forced him out early

80%??? based on that survey of 119 people?

no matter where your "20-20 hindsight" is now...the majority of Canadians - just like the majority of Americans - supported the Iraq war when it first started...

Well, the press conference is over, and I can't say that I learned a lot that's new... basically, Bush said that timetables and regulations need to be respected so Canadian beef can go to the US again, and he sidestepped the issue of a common North American Defense perimeter.

Interesting points:

- Bush raised the issue of NORAD and "protecting our continent against ballistic missile attacks"
- Bush hinted that it wasn't his place to comment on the legalization of marijuana in Canada

rayzor - the majority of Canadians SUPPORTED the Iraq war? Not in my part of the country...

www.cbc.ca...
www.ctv.ca...
www.spacewar.com...

Originally posted by rayzor11
the only reason Chretien pulled the plug on Iraq was to leave a nice diplomatic mess for Martin, who forced him out early

Going to Iraq would have only had him forced out of office faster, and screwed up his 'legacy'. Plus, it probably would have killed any chance of him landing a cushy post at the UN. He left plenty of other ticking timebombs for Martin's career, such as gay marriage, decriminalizing pot and George Radwanski to name but a few.

Originally posted by Otts
rayzor - the majority of Canadians SUPPORTED the Iraq war? Not in my part of the country...

www.cbc.ca...
www.ctv.ca...
www.spacewar.com...

1st link (Dec 2002) says 41% would be against joining the coalition

2nd link (March 2003) shows 45% polled are in favour of sending military support....47% feel we turned our backs on our friend in need...and 61% felt there would be negative consequences for turning our backs - but you are right - 89% of quebecers were not in favour! - prob more to do with a traditional dislike for the US

3rd link (March 2003) says that 59% are now not in favour...but even at that point 45% FAVOURED still joining the war effort to help the US

don't put much stock in the Globe and Mail, nor its polls...but your links clearly show what I 1st outlined...before the war, the majority were in favour...but after it started, the tides changed

*edit* grammar


[edit on 30-11-2004 by rayzor11]

Originally posted by Duzey
Plus, it probably would have killed any chance of him landing a cushy post at the UN. He left plenty of other ticking timebombs for Martin's career, such as gay marriage, decriminalizing pot and George Radwanski to name but a few.

agreed!! (sorry for the 1 liner)

Rayzor, yes, interestingly, the more you move west, the more support for the war in Iraq. Could it be that our country is divided the same way the U.S. is? Support for the Conservative party is mainly in Alberta and the Prairies. Ontario and Qu�bec are more liberal.

And yes, I'm glad my Qu�b�cois neighbors (and relatives) took the position they did.

Now the people at the parliment are a bit agitated..they are throwing stuff to police officers (paint)
And the police are very calm...
People want to destroy the little gate, but it's not like big violence, they are just protesting hard

So now, canadians we look like freaks
C'est la faute du canada, comme toujours! hehehe

Ameliaxxxxxxxxx

The Globe's first question was an excellent example of how plitely Canadians can deliver a slap in the face, when it was stated in english but Martin requested to respond in french. Martin none the less applied protocal and responded first in the language in which it was asked. Bush handled it well, but this man can only find fluency of speech when he speaks of aggression. All else was filled with...umm; errr; ahhh. The Europan Union became the Uprean Union, and the beef issue now seems to have taken on an air of requiring a passport and a check in with customs and immigration: "young cows should be allowed to go across our border."

Makes one wonder if he mistook the wave as being with all five fingers and didn't notice the mittens.

I can tell you people in Toronto were overwhelmingly against the war probably more then 80% IMO.

I'll tell you what these "talks" comes down to, and it's pretty simple..

Trading softwood lumber and beef for soldiers and Canadian support in Iraq

Testing a message he will bring to Europe in the new year about the need for international co-operation in Iraq.

Originally posted by Otts
Rayzor, yes, interestingly, the more you move west, the more support for the war in Iraq. Could it be that our country is divided the same way the U.S. is? Support for the Conservative party is mainly in Alberta and the Prairies. Ontario and Qu�bec are more liberal.

And yes, I'm glad my Qu�b�cois neighbors (and relatives) took the position they did.

thats a very good point - but I think our two parties are not as polarized as you'd see in the states (I think the number was near 90% of people who voted excatly the same as they did in 2000 and 1996)...but in our last election it was closer to 50%...meaning we're not nearly as partisan across political lines. Most likely due to the fact that neither party (Lib + Cons) are actually what their names imply anymore! But the similarity shows up when you look at large urban centres vs smaller centres and rural areas...you can divide that up red + blue almost exactly the same as the US....maybe our countries are really not as different as some would like us to believe!

*edit* spelling

[edit on 30-11-2004 by rayzor11]

I just got back from Ottawa... It was an interesting two days.

The 1st March started at 1pm from Ottawa City Hall and we marched to Parliament Hill... it was largely peaceful; shortly after we started it looked like there was going to be some trouble as about 10 cops were blocking a truck that was part of the demonstration (It said "Bush is a War Criminal" on the side and had music playing). There was some pushing and shoving, someone took off a cops hat and threw it, and after about 15 minutes the cops gave up and moved out of the way. They didn't look very happy.
After that we continued on, and the only thing I saw happen that was destructive was someone threw a bottle at an office building and broke a window.

We went to Parliament Hill, from which there was another march heading to Gatineau to the Museum of Civilization. Most people didn't make it that far because the easiest way to get there was blocked, because people from Bush's entourage were staying at the Chateau Laurier and the barriers were broken and the riot police came out and that lasted a couple of hours. For a while things were very intense in that area; all the bottom floor entrences of a mall directly across the street were closed off and blocked by police, and surrounding that area there were several businesses that had their windows boarded up so as to avoid a repeat of what happened in Quebec City.

Then there was the vigil at Parliament Hill at 5pm, with thousands in attendance. There were numerous speakers... Jack Layton of the NDP, Carolyn Parrish, and many others. The vigil lasted about an hour, and afterwards there was a march into Gatineau to the Museum of Civilization again. This time there was a big turnout and immediately there was clashes with the riot police, and a stand-off lasting a few hours. No body really tried to make it through the riot police, but they did get pushed back quite a bit after the barriers were broke down. As I was leaving a fire was lit in the middle of the street which got quite large quite quickly. About 15 people were arrested that night at the Museum, mostly after the crowd had dispersed.

This morning at 6:30am there was a demonstration at the Chateau Laurier, which was quite humorous; there was a lack of planning on the polices part - they left a lot of areas unprotected as they chased protestors around so as to block their entry.

Throughout the day yesterday you could see snipers on the roofs of buildings , particularly when Bush was just arriving, and around the Museum. Also throughout the day there were helicopters hovering and passing over constantly, as well as several small aircraft making constant passes over the city. Traffic was stopped all over downtown Ottawa pretty much all day, nothing was moving.

All in all there was a good turnout, considering the time of year, the day of the week, and very short notice, and to top it all off, it was pretty peaceful, there was no tear gas used, no dogs used, and very few arrests.

Here's some photos from Ottawa:
The following three photos are show the 1PM march in Ottawa leaving Ottawa City Hall:






This banner totally cracked me up; it says "George was Curious" and the button he's going to bush says "HOLY #!!!"




Apologies for the blur, I was getting pushed around. This is near the Chateau Laurier where most of the clashes took place and most injuries were sustained - several people I know ended up in hospital with head injuries due to the clashes with riot police. Walking around with machine guns in hand and snipers on the roof - Don't the security measures taken speak volumes in themselves? Underground there was supposed to be 1000's of riot police in waiting - ready to move when 'needed'.






This is at the Museum of Civilization in Hull, Quebec; This is pretty much right after the group arrived there after the vigil at Parliament Hill and the initial barriers had been pushed over. The cop in the front is the commisioner or something who was trying to negotiate with the organizers of the demonstration to get them to leave and not cause trouble. it worked for about 2.5 hours, after that about 10 people were arrested. There was no real attempt to move past the barriers the riot police created - when you can see gunmen in cars and snipers on roofs, you're not really eager to do so.



Same as above.





The bonfire in front of the Museum of Civilization that was lit about 1.5 hours after arriving there and clashing with riot police. There was some nice drumming and things calmed down a bit, but shortly after some people were arrested.