Introducing Element 117 - This Time, For Real

The periodic table has just officially inducted the newest member of its extensive atomic family, an as-yet unnamed element which decays into elements 115 and 113.

The periodic table of the elements is to get crowded towards its heaviest members. Evidence for the artificial creation of element 117 has recently been obtained at the GSI Helmholtz Centre for Heavy Ion Research, an accelerator laboratory located in Darm-stadt, Germany.

The experiment was performed by an international team of chemists and physicists headed by Prof. Christoph Düllmann, who holds positions at GSI, Johannes Gutenberg University Mainz (JGU), and the Helmholtz Institute Mainz (HIM). The team included 72 scientists and engineers from 16 institutions in Australia, Finland, Germany, India, Japan, Norway, Poland, Sweden, Switzerland, the United Kingdom, and the United States.

phys.org...

In the German experiments, scientists bombarded a berkelium target with calcium ions until they collided and formed element 117. Element 117 then decayed into elements 115 and 113. Livermore researchers Narek Gharibyan and Dawn Shaughnessy and former postdoc Evgeny Tereshatov participated in the German experiment.

Lawrence Livermore teamed with the Joint Institute for Nuclear Research in Russia (JINR) in 2004 to discover elements 113 and 115. The LLNL/JINR team then jointly worked with researchers from the Research Institute for Advanced Reactors, Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Vanderbilt Univ. and the Univ. of Nevada, Las Vegas, to discover element 117 in 2010.

Elements beyond atomic number 104 are referred to as super-heavy elements. The most long-lived ones are expected to be situated on a so-called "island of stability," where nuclei with extremely long half-lives should be found.

Although super-heavy elements have not been found in nature, they can be produced by accelerating beams of nuclei and shooting them at the heaviest possible target nuclei. Fusion of two nuclei — a very rare event — occasionally produces a super-heavy element. They generally only exist for a short time.

www.laboratoryequipment.com...

I'm no chemist, so...what does this mean for the world of science?

S&F great find!

Even tho its not a natrualy forming element, its still good to know that we still dont know everything. I have no idea what real-world applications, if any this will have. A lot of that end of the table are unstable and only last a few moments. I remember learning about 109 in high school--that is the extent of my science education.

originally posted by: RifRAAF
S&F great find!

Even tho its not a natrualy forming element, its still good to know that we still dont know everything. I have no idea what real-world applications, if any this will have. A lot of that end of the table are unstable and only last a few moments. I remember learning about 109 in high school--that is the extent of my science education.

If we can make it in a lab, in an infinite Universe it should be possible if not probable for these elements to exist. We are still infants peering over the edge of the playpen when it comes to understanding just what we are and our surroundings.

The egits are probably trying to make a black hole!

originally posted by: smurfy
The egits are probably trying to make a black hole!

They already have, multiple times. Fortunately, the black holes created have always been so small and brief that they never posed any threat at all.

Good for Bob Lazar!

Good thread this stuff is amazing. I've always thought it might be possible to make heavier elements. I wonder if there are more possible even heavier ones.
I have a theory that really massive stars may have the heat and gravity to fuse heavier elements that we don't know about.
This new one is a super heavy element above atomic number 104 and is unstable and doesn't last long but could have properties which are unique.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: smurfy
The egits are probably trying to make a black hole!

They already have, multiple times. Fortunately, the black holes created have always been so small and brief that they never posed any threat at all.

Yes, I know about the collider 'black holes' Anyway according to Hawkin all black holes lose their mass ultimately. I's fecking complex, you hear all sorts of things though. One scientist claims that a black hole is another universe, not sure how that works, or if he just means a black hole has the mass of 'a' universe. This element 117 is 'more stable' than other heavy elements, but it is short lived. It seems they want to blast elements with something else to make them new heavier elements, then maybe if they are quick enough, they can use the new element to blast another element to make that element even more heavy, then their bums fall off!

originally posted by: JimTSpock
Good thread this stuff is amazing. I've always thought it might be possible to make heavier elements. I wonder if there are more possible even heavier ones.
I have a theory that really massive stars may have the heat and gravity to fuse heavier elements that we don't know about.
This new one is a super heavy element above atomic number 104 and is unstable and doesn't last long but could have properties which are unique.

Yes, 117 is forty times heavier than lead..while it lasts.

a reply to: the owlbear

If we can make it in a lab, in an infinite Universe it should be possible if not probable for these elements to exist.

Except the matter contained in the universe is not infinite. The universe has a finite amount of matter that is expending into an infinite space.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: smurfy
The egits are probably trying to make a black hole!

They already have, multiple times. Fortunately, the black holes created have always been so small and brief that they never posed any threat at all.

Until one isn't. Why are they messing with nature like this? Seriously? It's like a dog chasing a car. What the hell are you going to do once you make a stable black hole in a lab?

a reply to: ScientiaFortisDefendit

I dont think you can make a stable black hole at the size they are playing with. There just isn't enough mass to make it stable. I think they have to be billions of times larger for them to be stable.

a reply to: PhoenixOD

I thought a black hole was a singularity.

Drifting a little, though, sorry mods.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit
a reply to: PhoenixOD

I thought a black hole was a singularity.

Drifting a little, though, sorry mods.

A quantum black hole is not the same as a classical black hole. The mass of a black hole matters a great deal.

A black hole has never been created in the lab. I know of a pseudo-event horizon which has been created in the lab using the kerr effect this is really not the same thing as creating an actual blackhole with Mass and high-density.

Where exactly do you claim they are producing these things?

Yes it might be possible to produce heavy elements in supermassive stars, but if anything the quantity is extremely small and they are extremely unstable so it is likely they will just decay. What this means the science is that despite elements of launch atomic number being unstable they do form bound states. When you are looking for a some cold island of stability where atomic models predict that there are super heavy elements that are completely stable. To produce these elements would not only prove the existence of the island but also allow was to observe new chemistry and prove our bottles of the atom all correct.

originally posted by: ScientiaFortisDefendit

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

originally posted by: smurfy
The egits are probably trying to make a black hole!

They already have, multiple times. Fortunately, the black holes created have always been so small and brief that they never posed any threat at all.

Until one isn't. Why are they messing with nature like this? Seriously? It's like a dog chasing a car. What the hell are you going to do once you make a stable black hole in a lab?

Use it to power a faster than light spacecraft of course. If you could project in front of your ship a black hole you could travel at light speed. Imagine for a moment that a beam? could constantly project a black hole in front of your ship that dissipates but is constantly recreated at the point your mean is aimed at. The hole would drag your ship toward it while the beam end point would move forward as the ship moves forward...meaning the black hole is constantly moving ahead as your ship and beam move ahead. You would be able to travel as fast as space time allows you to if of course you did not break up at such speeds.

originally posted by: AfterInfinity

I'm no chemist, so...what does this mean for the world of science?

It means Bob Lazar will be able to power our interstellar drives from the reversed engineered UFOs .. im sure tit was element 115 they required which was in abundance naturally on one of the planets or moons the apparent aliens have access to or something, but was not naturally available here .. and apparently when we try to create it, it would only be stable for like a millisecond .... so if this really decays to 115 ... then maybe fuel of sorts ... but, i guess it still decays from element 115 still also

Or ... with regards to our 'modern' physics ... i guess its one of those things where many applications would be thought up after the discovery / invention ...

I reckon if this comes to fruition .. the military will dream up many applications for it ... fuel, and weapons ..
I reckon it would be restricted, and highly unlikely to find its way into any commercial applications .. not because it wouldn't be of use .. but because we would not be allowed it .. Big brother says no, go play with your own little toys and let the big boys handle the powerful stuff ...

Yes a black hole is singularity, but in order for the black hole to "grow" or become stable it would need to have a gravitational force strong enough to absorb the elements around it. Therefore making a quantum black hole would not have the force great enough to absorb anything other then other quantum particles. And correct me if I am wrong but they kinda keep track of the particles that are fed into the collider ? There is not much on a quantum scale for the brief black hole to survive, and since it only survives for a small amount of time it doenst get a chance to really float around and find any.

a reply to: AfterInfinity
Can you site a source that we've actually created a black hole in a collider? From everything I've been reading it's still just theoretical. Not trying to call you out I'm just very curious to read about it.

a reply to: NiZZiM

already asked got ignored, but a bh has never been produced in the lab. nearest was a manipulated refractive index experiment that faked an event horizon like bending of light.