Video of first "Alligator" (Ka-52) shot down in Slavyansk

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Vovin

And the Mujahadeen were taught to do ambush helicopters eventually. The early helicopters they shot down weren't hardened against attack the way more modern helicopters are.

The point that I was making is that you don't need some specialized training to take down a helicopter. All you need is to improvise based on three factors: situation, geography/position, and equipment.

The video that I've seen of the supposed downing on one of the Ukrainian Hinds shows the Hind flying over a forest at about 100-150m altitude while apparently strafing a checkpoint and then going down behind the tree line (although a lot of this is claimed and hard to see on the video).

In this instance, it's not unreasonable to conceive that some guy with an Igla in the trees could have locked on to the Hind as it flew overhead and the missile could have closed the gap rather quickly. If the Hind really was attacking a checkpoint at the time, then maybe the pilots were to distracted to deploy countermeasures, or maybe thought the lock on signal was coming from their target. Who knows, just speculation on my part really.

originally posted by: 3u40r15m
I want to see it being shot down, not wreckage...!

Life is not flipping COD nor Battlefield. Why so interest in watching evil taking place?

a reply to: Vovin

You don't need specialized training to do it, but training of some kind helps. It keeps you from making mistakes when you try to pull off the ambush.

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Vovin

You don't need specialized training to do it, but training of some kind helps. It keeps you from making mistakes when you try to pull off the ambush.

The situation dictates the necessity of professionalism. These are Ukrainian citizens being attacked by the Ukrainian military. I'm sure they are more interested in warding off the assault with any opportunity presented than going out and trying to pick off a helicopter.

a reply to: Vovin

Which begs the question of who did decide picking them off is a good idea. Someone with training and knows how to fire a MANPADS, which means either a professional fighter, or soldier. So who popped off missiles that brought down two helicopters?

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: Vovin

Which begs the question of who did decide picking them off is a good idea. Someone with training and knows how to fire a MANPADS, which means either a professional fighter, or soldier. So who popped off missiles that brought down two helicopters?

I would assume the same as before: ex-soldiers who had experience using them in the past. Hundreds of Ukrainian soldiers officially defected and switched to Russian forces in Crimea, both during and after the uprising. There's many who have done the same in east Ukraine, including Berkut officers and anybody else ostracized resulting from radicalization. The National Guard was formed from expedited training of ultranationalists (like Right Sector) to fill the ranks of a loyal army, which had a void after defections. As we have seen during these "counter-terror" ops, some soldiers in the current military are will to defect and turn over arms.

That's not to say that there couldn't be some Russian agents supplying weapons to the separatists, but I'd be more interested in the capabilities of defectors and Ukrainian-Russian dual citizens who may have served Russia in the past.

From what I understand nothing too special is needed, helicopters of any kind are vulnerable to RPGs or even mortars. (Not just dedicated anti-air missiles.) Both the Russians and Ukranians seem to prefer a zoom and boom as a primary tactic over a stand off ranged approach when it comes to helicopter use. Although it's great for quick troop insertion, attacking like a fixed-wing aircraft makes helicopters more vulnerable when not supporting anyone on-ground. Passing close overhead of a target makes them more likely to miss anyone that stands their ground and exposes them to a greater range of heavier infantry weapons.

I'm surprised there's not more of a stalemate, as both countries in this conflict have trained with essentially the same weapons and tactics. Thus they should be well aware of effective counters. I suppose it's a matter of practice then, with whoever has more time in and resources in training coming out ahead.