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Ukraine Reinstates Conscription - BBC

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posted on May, 1 2014 @ 06:56 PM
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a reply to: Aloysius the Gaul



How is that different from Russia's $15 billion loan from last year - you know - the one Putin bribed his lapdog Yankuvich with to start the whole escalation off with? "Here - take this and stop trying to become independent of Russia"


Whether you liked Yankuvich or not is irrelevant (I didn't like him either,) he was the lawful elected leader. Until the west destabilized (another)(again) the country. Now the NeoNazis have control but east Ukraine isn't going for it. What, was the west was afraid the elections that were coming right up wouldn't give them the result the wanted?

This whole thing reeks of US/EU/bankster destabilization and imperialism. I'm not convinced Putin isn't part of this whole charade either.




posted on May, 1 2014 @ 07:07 PM
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How do we know there are Neo Nazis in control? are the no moderate factions fighting for Ukraine independence?Just Nazids...? I don't think so.........



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 07:20 PM
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a reply to: stirling



How do we know there are Neo Nazis in control? are the no moderate factions fighting for Ukraine independence?Just Nazids...? I don't think so.........


Not the whole Parliament but a large portion of it. You can cross reference the names on Wiki if you wish and the NeoNazi parties they are aligned with. I've done it enough times in these threads.


The ultra-right Svoboda Party has scored six major cabinet ministries in the government of Arseniy Yatsenyuk approved by the Ukrainian parliament on Thursday. Svoboda is the Neo-Nazi, ultra-right, anti-Semitic, Russophobic party with its base of support in the Western Ukraine.

The most important post was claimed by a co-founder of Svoboda, Andriy Parubiy. He was named Secretary of the Security and National Defense Committee, which supervises the defense ministry and the armed forces.
Ukraine Transition Government: Neo-Nazis in Control of Armed Forces, National Security, Economy, Justice and Education



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 07:27 PM
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a reply to: darkbake

You are very right that is serious...as ive said in a dozen threads...it is sabre rattling...and bad mouthing...then it goes to amassing troops....every time...i mean you can launch one attack with a small number of guys but a war involves troops...I think that is beyond sabre rattling do this.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 07:34 PM
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This is simply a quick way to make sure any Russian invasion would be vastly out numbered. Ukraine is taking Russias old playbook of just out numbering the enemy by a ten to one margin and making much to painful to mess with them.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 07:53 PM
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a reply to: darkbake


I think it will just accelerate the decline of Ukraine.
I don't see the general populace of Ukraine backing their current (new) government.

Many of them probably don't to fight an un-winable war against Russia. I mean, the current Ukraine government has been labelled fascist. So, who do you want? fascists or communists?

I think, if Ukraine was dumb enough to conscript its troops and order them to fight Russia, majority would just surrender and walk over to the enemies intern camps.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:33 PM
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originally posted by: Agit8dChop
a reply to: darkbake


I think it will just accelerate the decline of Ukraine.
I don't see the general populace of Ukraine backing their current (new) government.

Many of them probably don't to fight an un-winable war against Russia. I mean, the current Ukraine government has been labelled fascist. So, who do you want? fascists or communists?

I think, if Ukraine was dumb enough to conscript its troops and order them to fight Russia, majority would just surrender and walk over to the enemies intern camps.


The Ukrainians would have no problem fighting Russians, they have done it for generations. They do have a problem fighting other Ukrainians.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:54 PM
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originally posted by: MrSpad
I think it will just accelerate the decline of Ukraine.
I don't see the general populace of Ukraine backing their current (new) government.


the worlds changed.
Look at Iraq, Muslim Vs west went out the window when faced against a superior military.

Ukrainians will not fight Russia and be annihilated for a new government that they don't even know.

If they did, they'd have fought for Crimea and Donetsk.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 09:35 PM
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There is no way a general conscription will generate a fighting force in the next few weeks or months. Guaranteed if it comes down to it, Russia will be ahead of that curve.

If the schmucks in Kiev cannot control the army now, how on Earth does anybody think they will control a larger army full of draftees? Other than perhaps laying the legal framework down to lock the rest of the country up tight. Even then, no one listens to them, they know they are puppets.

This has to be for show to the IMF and the West.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 09:39 PM
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My uncle, Josef Bondarenko was a mentor to Turchinov as he is also a baptist pastor. He went to Ukraine to visit him about a month ago, and when he went, he sided with Russia, and after he came back, he was the most ardent, pro-Ukrainian advocate there is. Just wanted to share, this is only my 3rd or 4th post on ATS.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 10:09 PM
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originally posted by: stevenbond
My uncle, Josef Bondarenko was a mentor to Turchinov as he is also a baptist pastor. He went to Ukraine to visit him about a month ago, and when he went, he sided with Russia, and after he came back, he was the most ardent, pro-Ukrainian advocate there is. Just wanted to share, this is only my 3rd or 4th post on ATS.


what was learned that made him change his mind?



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 02:55 AM
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A conscritption will only polorize the situation more, if your a young man with wavering loyalties and you get a draft card it gives you no choice but to choose a side as nuetrality is no longer an option.



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 04:27 AM
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Conscription or press gangs... sign up or get beaten / shot / jailed etc?

It seems, in some areas, the police and military had no stomach for killing the pro-Russian factions and either went home or just handed over their equipment and joined the rebels / defence forces.

A conscription, on top of all the other austerity measures the IMF and it's puppet new illegitimate government are imposing, will be very unpopular indeed, and likely to turn even more people against them.



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 08:07 AM
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originally posted by: ABNARTY
There is no way a general conscription will generate a fighting force in the next few weeks or months. Guaranteed if it comes down to it, Russia will be ahead of that curve.

If the schmucks in Kiev cannot control the army now, how on Earth does anybody think they will control a larger army full of draftees? Other than perhaps laying the legal framework down to lock the rest of the country up tight. Even then, no one listens to them, they know they are puppets.

This has to be for show to the IMF and the West.


The Russian are in the same boat. They had big problems in Georgia, so much so they canned tons officers and tried to reform the Army. The reforms did not work out because all that money went poof into the pockets of everybody but, the units that were suppose to see it. Outside of Russia elite units the rest of Army is not in much better shape than Ukraines forces. Desertion has proved common in Russia forces as have weapons, troops, and units that exist only on paper. Ukraines wreck of a military is a product of its Russian style of thinking in military affiars. If Ukraine turns out a bunch of poorly armed and poorly trained conscripts against a modern western force they would swept aside but, still be in large enough numbers to make occpation painful. However, when facing another group of mostly conscipts with training not all that much better those numbers around a million would be more than a 40K man Russian invasion could ever hope to cope with. Of course the Russian could increase the invasion size to a couple hundred thousand but, with the armed forces at only 700K active personel that would make Russia to vulnerable every where else.



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 08:32 AM
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a reply to: Agit8dChop

I can not talk from Ukrainian viewpoint, but from a viewpoint of another previously occupied nation.

I can not imagine, how can another post-Soviet nation support Russia, which is the reason I believe majority of native Ukrainians were not happy with the direction Ukraine had chosen before. The corruption was extreme, far more than in any other European nation, as well as the living standards were low compared to other Post-Soviet nations and even lower compared to central/northern european ones. Knowing how corrupt the system was (it is corrupt everywhere up to certain point, but it was far worse there, just like in current Russia) and that generally previous USSR members are rather scared of russia than friends of them, I find it extremely hard to believe the general population are against the new government.

At least certain part, if not majority of russian population are not natively ukrainian, they have been there only a few generations, after Russia took over the nation, they created large industrial areas in eastern ukraine, where tens of thousands, if not hundreds were brought in, while many locals were taken away, relocated. I know for example in Estonia, before USSR there were 9% of russians, afterwards 25%...


I personally do not find restoring the compulsory military service as a surprise. The compulsory system like that, where everybody is required to go through the military service, is in near to every post-soviet nation, vastly due to the big "bad" neighbour. In Ukraine only a couple of years ago, they abolished the military service (last draft was last october, 2013), so the country could use professional army, although considering the current situation, there are enough funds to either buy or train that much professionals, so due to the situation, they just restored the system that was in place.



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 03:15 PM
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World don't let this happen! Why are you fighting? What are you fighting for?



posted on May, 3 2014 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: MrSpad

The Russian are in the same boat. They had big problems in Georgia, so much so they canned tons officers and tried to reform the Army. The reforms did not work out because all that money went poof into the pockets of everybody but, the units that were suppose to see it. Outside of Russia elite units the rest of Army is not in much better shape than Ukraines forces. Desertion has proved common in Russia forces as have weapons, troops, and units that exist only on paper. Ukraines wreck of a military is a product of its Russian style of thinking in military affiars. If Ukraine turns out a bunch of poorly armed and poorly trained conscripts against a modern western force they would swept aside but, still be in large enough numbers to make occpation painful. However, when facing another group of mostly conscipts with training not all that much better those numbers around a million would be more than a 40K man Russian invasion could ever hope to cope with. Of course the Russian could increase the invasion size to a couple hundred thousand but, with the armed forces at only 700K active personel that would make Russia to vulnerable every where else.


Remember Russia have a odd kanck of turning around pretty quickly.

Before operation Babraosa Russia's army was little more than a mob armed with WW1 antiques lacking any experienced officers, hell Finland kicked there arse. As soon as the pressure was put on them for real they did a 360 and became one of the deadliest forces in Europe.

Things can change quickly.

Remember Hitler made the mistake of writing Russia off as easy prey.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 02:53 PM
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originally posted by: darkbake
It looks like Ukraine is about to become a battlefield for an East vs. West war here shortly.


Indeed. And if the West doesn't help, you'll see Al-Qaeda pour into there to "help" the Ukrainians who will welcome it with open arms from such battle-experienced people ready to take down the Russians again. By "help", I mean try and destabilize the country to try and turn it into an Islamic state right on the borders of Europe.

I still think that the West should try and negotiate with the Russians. They are trying to protect their interests so we should be more understanding of their concerns and make a deal that addresses all of our concerns. The only alternative is a World War whereby every single one of us loses regardless of who is left standing at the end of it. There is no way I'll be fighting in such a war either when I have idiots leading my country.



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