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Time is the expansion of space

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posted on May, 1 2014 @ 02:30 PM
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As the universe expands, so it is becoming less dense, and it is this change in density that I would like to propose gives rise to the sensation of time...

With every tick and every tock the universe expands. From the heavenly to the atomic scale matter moves apart, relative to itself, in order to fill the extra space and avoid the void. There is no change to ratios or relative distances, however, in real terms everything has expanded ever so imperceptibly. Every moment has it's associated expansion event.

Where gravity is more intense, time moves more slowly, pulling against the expansion event and retarding it's rate of change... [Gravitational Time Dilation - Time moves faster in space between gravitational fields so long as velocity is constant.]

I imagine this at the classical scale (where groups of atoms expand apart) but I truly wonder... Could subatomic particles also expand apart, stretching their relative distances from each other? Would the Strong & Weak Nuclear forces change things here.. And: Could gravity have an effect in these terms at the atomic scale..?



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posted on May, 1 2014 @ 03:19 PM
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posted on May, 1 2014 @ 04:07 PM
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So, space isn't getting bigger, it's just lasting longer?

Maybe God is Pfizer.



Come on, now. That's funny.




On topic,though - I think our understanding of 3D space is so limited that anything is possible. I've often wondered if space is expanding, then everything might be getting proportionally bigger, right? But compared with what?



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posted on May, 1 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: f4andHALFtoads

Are you not describing Spacetime?



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 04:25 PM
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a reply to: f4andHALFtoads


your overarching concepts may be correst in an Academic sense


but 'time' is the duration of chemical interactions between substances for the changes to occur---
and 'gravity' or the 'density' of the environment may well change the 'time' element to be different in different levels of ''gravity-density-of the physics in that plane"

it all reverts back to the idea found in metaphysics/magic where the actual physics in the environment changes with the place 'dimension' one is working in

...a coffee perculater would not work Its' magic on either Pluto or Jupiter...
but will work in a satisfactory way here on Earth, Mars or Venus....
the scale of the 'Realm/Dimension' you are in will dictate the 'workability' of the learned-Laws-of-Nature you take-for-granted here on Earth as a 6' hominid creature in familiar surroundings of proper sized trees, comparable sized plants & animals ...etc


in the realms of the various realities you are thinking of... the metaphysicians, Magicians call these levels "correspondences'
where time, the laws of Physics and such... differ from plane-to-plane

speed is also a factor for 'time'


the idea of Relativity is a 'constant' .... but time is not a 'constant' ...only the speed of light is a constant in whichever level or correspondence you are physically or etherically in at the moment


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posted on May, 1 2014 @ 04:45 PM
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a reply to: ScientiaFortisDefendit

Is that a tongue in your cheek...?

I would say that space is getting bigger, that matter is expanding apart from itself, and that each expansion is a one-way change that equates to a measurably different structure of the universe, or the arrow of time



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 04:53 PM
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a reply to: f4andHALFtoads

I think it’s the other way around. Space is the result of mass and time coexisting.

By combining the formulas for Force and Gravitational Attraction, then doing the algebra, I came up with this formula:

L^3=Gms^2

Where L^3 is three-dimensional space, G is the Gravitational Constant, m is mass, and s is time. I think what the formula is saying is that given mass and time, three-dimensional space will be generated in direct proportion to the Gravitational Constant. I believe this explains why the universe is expanding.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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Our finite universe is not absolute neutral, so it will expand. Our universe will expand because it exists With a Space/void that is absolute neutral. Every finite mater and particle will always be posetive compared the the absolute neutral void/Space. Thereby they will always expand.

It took a finite amount of time to compress the finite singularity. Therefor it will also take a finite amount of expansion time for it to become absolute neutral/infinite.

There are at least Three timelines.
Two which are present right now and one that have ended.

The first timeline in existence today is the absolute constant timeline. This timeline have always existed and will always exist. The second timeline does not exist any more. That is the time line that formed the finite singularity. That would be the compression timeline. We all know that the singularity was a compressed energy mass. And there would have existed a timeline for it to be formed.

The thrid timeline is the expansion timeline. This timeline only represents the Properties of the expanding singularity. This means that it is only Our universe that is effected by the expansion timeline. The absolute neutral void/Space, is absolute neutral so it will never change. It will never expand because it is absolute neutral and infintie.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 05:39 PM
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a reply to: VictorVonDoom

Thanks for bringing maths...

What I am saying is that if density changes as mass expands into three-dimensional space, then we experience time. In a steady state, where there is no creation of space, there can be no 'perception' of time.

Does it follow that if time is imperceptible that it does not exist? Maybe there would be some notion of change/time as the 'chemical interactions' of St.Udio's post (above) go round and around, but would it feel the same?

Your post makes me think of The Singularity, just before the Big Bang, existing in and of itself, in a steady state. No creation of three-dimensional space and no time... And for me it is the expansion of matter that creates the space and the time all at once.
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posted on May, 1 2014 @ 06:32 PM
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a reply to: VictorVonDoom
Maybe space is expanding simply because matter is cooling and shrinking
If it wasn't a big bang but a big cool
where as the universe cooled down it contracted matter into its self making space seemingly expand as the different densities of what would form matter collected to form the most sable states they could achieve against a cooling collapsing from within.

The sun is big compare to earth but an electron is small to a proton and a hydration atom contains more space from its nucleus to its outer-limits then the sun does to the outer solar system.

Size is relative what is big could be small what is small may be be big just like time it might appear to move forward to people but maybe from a quantum perspective be moving in the reverse
Making life or existence for that matter to be a struggle against backward

I never liked the idea that space could be warped or bent.
I believe it can only be occupied and it is this occupancy that can bend, warp, expand, contract and effect the way other occupants interact with each other based on there composition
For I believe all matter is a living thing in one way or another



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 06:39 PM
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a reply to: f4andHALFtoads

I can buy this idea makes complete sense. Id even go to say that consciousness is present where space has expanded.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 06:44 PM
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And just to round it out, as I've said several times on ATS and elsewhere (drum roll for my pet theory with absolutely no maths to back it up), gravity and time are the same thing.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 06:54 PM
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a reply to: f4andHALFtoads

Well, sure. The only way we measure time is with motion, whether it's the hands on a clock or the vibration of a crystal. You figure, if you could achieve absolute zero, with no molecular motion whatsoever, there would be no way to measure the passage of time in that region. I guess mass, time, and space are all interrelated, wherever you have two, the third comes into being. If you have mass and time, space will be generated. If you have mass and space, you will see the passage of time. I guess if you had empty space and give it enough time, mass would be generated.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 06:58 PM
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a reply to: spy66

Thank you for your succinct post.

We seem to agree that an expansion or contraction event creates a timeline/time.

However you speak of a fundamental, overarching timeline pertaining to the 'absolute neutral/infinite' and that is very interesting...

As a complete aside to the OP:
If we can imagine a black hole within our universe that has created a 'contraction timeline', resulting in a singularity spewing forth an 'expansion timeline', then we can see that these are distinctly separate timelines to our own.

Yet these separate timelines would occur within our universe, and without any knowledge of our universe existing beyond their own event horizon. (A universe within a universe?)

So perhaps our universe is itself a blackhole-singularity-expansion event in the spacetime fabric of the absolute neutral/infinite..? (A universe within the absolute neutral/infinite universe.)

[I appreciate that my understanding of Black Holes in these terms is somewhat naieve - feel free to set me straight]



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 07:23 PM
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a reply to: AthlonSavage

Athlon, I'm so glad you bring this up... And you do chose your words carefully.

"Now is a gift... That is why it is called The Present"



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 07:28 PM
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a reply to: IblisLucifer

If I understand what you are saying, you suggest that space isn't really expanding, it just seems that way because gravity is pulling matter together to occupy less space, giving the appearance that space is increasing. But that doesn't really square with our observations.

We believe the universe is expanding because most objects we observe have a red Doppler shift, meaning most objects we obseve are moving away from us. Statistically, we would expect that there would be as many objects moving toward us (blue shift) as moving away. We interpret this to mean that the amount of space between objects is increasing, hence the expanding Universe theory. Think of it as space being "poured" into our universe from another dimension. But it doesn't get poured in to a single point and expand from there. Space just seems to appear everywhere equally.

If, as you suggest, matter is coming together, then we would observe a blue shift in most objects we see.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:07 PM
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a reply to: VictorVonDoom

The clock is doing my head in. I'm staring at it as though it could teach me anything, but it continues in its spiral and distracts from what the question is at it's base; which is... What makes one moment distinct from the next? What changed between now and just then? What fundamental shift has just occurred to make the two times absolutely distinct? You are quite right: It is change, it is motion. But whatever that motion was it was barely perceptible. Actually completely imperceptible. Unless everything moved just a little bit apart and became ever so slightly less dense.

We may measure time by change; but I would say that there would be no time without it. It is a fundamental change in the 'shape' of things that gives us the flux of time. So as you say, when this universe has expanded all it can, there will be no change, it will be absolute zero, and there will be no time.

And as Athlon says, there will be no consciousness neither.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 09:34 PM
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3 ancient Chinese people observe a flag: the Confucian says the flag is moving. The Buddhist says the wind is moving. The Taoist says mind is moving.



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 03:22 AM
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a reply to: taoistguy

I become Bruce Lee as I read your post... Which is greatly enjoyable.

"Be water my friends"



posted on May, 2 2014 @ 03:57 AM
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a reply to: St Udio

St.Udio your post is a good one and contains many interesting thoughts:




but 'time' is the duration of chemical interactions between substances for the changes to occur--- - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...


Agreed, in the sense that there is change, and so there is time. Reactions/interactions/'change' create the time. Your example is just one thing that time 'is'... Change in density could also be a thing that time 'is'.




and 'gravity' or the 'density' of the environment may well change the 'time' element to be different in different levels of ''gravity-density-of the physics in that plane" - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...


It would be interesting to know who you are quoting here. Science tells us that gravity effects time... This is surely due to gravity's effect on density.




it all reverts back to the idea found in metaphysics/magic where the actual physics in the environment changes with the place 'dimension' one is working in - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...


The original thought in the OP has no qualm with regional variation. Instead it is concerned to report that in general, overall, everything is expanding (however imperceptibly) and this change in density (no matter of the regional variations of physics) this change of density only moves in one direction, and gives rise to the arrow of time.


edit on 2-5-2014 by f4andHALFtoads because: (no reason given)



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