Project Persphone: NASA & British Scientists Building 'Living Space Ark' To Save Humanity

Reminded me of this book series.

Eon
en.wikipedia.org...

Eternity
en.wikipedia.org...

Within the universe of The Way, the Thistledown is a asteroid starship built by hollowing out Juno and fitting it with mass-driver (rail gun) engines and thermonuclear drives. It is built 500 years in the future, as told in Bear's novel, Eon, and is engaged on a multi-generational journey to Tau Ceti, around which a habitable planet is known to be circling. The journey is meant to take 60 years, as the ship can only maintain a velocity of 20% the speed of light. Such velocities were rendered meaningless after the technology of the Thistledown was improved to include inertial dampeners, allowing higher accelerations. Inhabiting the Thistledown are the best and brightest of Earth, who are quite diverse both culturally and politically. The Thistledown's society includes one transcendent genius - Konrad Korzenowski, whose preference for living in the Thistledown as compared with an outer universe, causes him to experiment with closed-geodesic space time in the Seventh Chamber, 20 years into the Thistledown's voyage. The results of his experiments are shattering in the extreme - he creates a unique pocket universe: The Way.

The Way

Did none of you watch Evacuate Earth?

While you were watching Game of Thrones or The Voice this was on...



My thoughts on this are why not plan? There have been studies for how we might build a generation ship for decades. Their existence wasn't thought to represent some impending doom then because 1) I think people were probably smarter back then, or at least more more scientifically astute and 2) The internet didn't exist to allow rumor mongering so most of this research was done quietly while people watched TV.

Simply making plans for a great escape doesn't mean cosmic doom is on the way. And I can tell you that there is nothing out there which we know about which will doom us in the foreseeable future.


That said, there are a lot of things which can wipe out life on Earth.

We're #1 one atop the list so think of this group as a bunch of "cosmic preppers".

I don't know that I would have much confidence in an interstellar ship built by a company named after a character (Icarus - from a Greek tragedy) who, having escaped from captivity using wings made by his craftsman father, ended up falling to his death because he ignored his dad's advice and flew too close to the sun which destroyed his wings...

And if that weren't bad enough the ship being built by this dubiously named company is named after the Greek Goddess "Persephone", who was kidnapped by Hades and forced to live in the underworld (basically, Hell) for six months of every year!

...just sayin'

originally posted by: Chamberf=6

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask
Ahh and now this information about building an "Ark"?


Star Cluster Hurtling at Millions of Miles an Hour towards Earth

Yep....Were Boned.... (credit for quote given to Bender Rodriguez)

That cluster will take millions of years to get near here.

Try trillions.


2 million miles an hour is SLOW. The speed of light is 670 million miles per hour.

That's only 0.002% of the speed of light.

If it were travelling at 100% the speed of light it would already be here.

At 0.002% the speed of light it would take 2,750,000 million years to get here. That's 2.7 TRILLION years. The universe will be dead by then!

More interesting is the Andromeda Galaxy will be merging with our Milky Way in about 4 billion years. Our sun will have become a red giant by then.

There's no reason for doom. The distances between the stars are huge and this cluster were it to pass through our region of the galaxy would not affect us other than give us some more interesting things to look at in our sky.

I'm alarmed by the giant ark replicas churches in the U.S. build, big enough to function as congregation halls, complete with classroom areas full of lifesize fake animals. At least the scientist thinktank fosters actual THOUGHT.

The "Doom" might be closer to home than ATSers think. The Earth might become extremely overpopulated, we run out of oil and other non-renewable resources, global wars, nuclear disasters, etc. And so a few thousands of the "chosen ones" might decided to leave us all to our sorry being and depart for a better place.

originally posted by: wildespace
The "Doom" might be closer to home than ATSers think. The Earth might become extremely overpopulated, we run out of oil and other non-renewable resources, global wars, nuclear disasters, etc. And so a few thousands of the "chosen ones" might decided to leave us all to our sorry being and depart for a better place.

I don't ever see the Earth becoming overpopulated.

Its like people who back in the 1800s though the world would be running on steam in the 21st century.

originally posted by: SirKonstantin
Well I believe that something big is gonna happen by the end of this year, something that will change the way we look at the universe and ourselves. Almost like ManBehindTheMask posted, but not Earth obliteration, Maybe! Hence this thingy is being built.

Kinda reminds me of the Matt Damon Movie, Elysium.

This Thread Should Go into Doom Porn.

An interstellar multi-generational starship is going to take a LOT longer to design, fund and build than a year.

If there is a known threat, it's going to be a long time down the line. It may have something to do with asteroid Apophis, due to swing around our neck of the woods sometime around 2029 and again in 2036.

NASA claims it will miss during the closest approach to Earth in the 2036 encounter...but admit it 'may' collide with our planet.

22 years might be enough time to get such a ship built, although if they are certain the asteroid will hit us, they would have worked on this ship for a long time already...perhaps this was the real reason for all of those $ Trillions being lifted from the public purse and not to prop up banks...it was to build this massive craft.

I am glad someone is looking at this as we know life can be extinguished and restarted and our bodies are vulnerable to to even a small change in our environment.

I can't help thinking though that because of the extreme cost, (and the time a project like this would take to finish) any ark will purely be for the elite and the rest of us will be left scrabbling in the dirt. Kind of makes me smile at the thought that the 'me-first last of mankind' consists of mainly psychopaths and their offspring - perhaps if we survive on the planet we might rebuild whilst they whirl off into the distance.

I noticed in evacuate earth that no mention was made of ion drives, just cannot figure out why not, much other useful idea left out too, bit of an half assed program.

I noticed one thing straight away that nobody else seemed to mention.."Persephone". I believe the name of the project to be telling. Persephone was the daughter of Demeter (essentially mother nature) in one of the more common myths regarding her, she was captured by Hades while being enamored by Narcissus flowers (narcissism). Upon her disappearance Demeter grew very despondent, not tending to the Earth causing a great loss of the natural world. Discovering her whereabouts, Hades...Demeter bargains and Hades makes the arrangement that if Persephone hasn't eaten any food from the realm she could return. It turns out that Persephone had eaten 4 pomegranate seeds, whereupon it was decided that she must return to Hades every 8 months for 4 month intervals at which time Demeter would grow despondent again...hence the formation of seasons (winter) and "death" of the natural world for that interim. www.greekmyths-greekmythology.com...

Now why would they talk about this Ark? Heck, because we have the technology now, so it sounds like an off-handed thing to consider. Why Persephone? perhaps the group sees us as so self absorbed we will bring a destruction to the natural order of things and require a new world. Sadly they don't seem to have the technology to change peoples behavior and lack of insight, so they would be required to hold onto said Ark IMO upon destroying the natural world on their next world due to narcissism.***My wife mentioned something I over looked, there would be an expectation to return to Earth as well, after a reset we assume, in following with the myth, so they definitely need to hold onto the Ark. Of course I await being bashed for what Im sure comes off as climate change bait, alas I do not fall into either camp entirely as I understand the precession of the equinox and other factors play a far more critical roll...either way, Im getting used to the bashing and abuse heaped upon folks here.

If only we had listened to John Muir.

I doubt this project will ever see the light of day. If we are afforded the luxury of enough advance warning of global extinction we would need to put aside all our differences, and devote much of the planet's dwindling resources to this effort for decades, if not centuries.

This does not address the problem of an ever increasing population and the feeding of same (we aren't dealing with this now) or maintaining the world in general. Current infrastructure requires regular attention and up keep not to mention the new systems that would need to be constructed for the project. These difficulties would remain.

Granted, military budgets would be slashed and monies diverted to the greater good. Even after these difficulties are overcome, the fundamental question that needs to be addressed is: Who gets to go and by what mechanism will the determination be made? How will this be done, and by whom? What fairness will be applied? There is a saying "Who watches the watchers?" It definitely applies here.

Of significance is the determination of a destination. There have been several possible and exciting discoveries made of late, but if we set our sights on one, what happens if we get there and it just isn't suitable for any possible reasons? These include, but are not limited to incorrect pre-determined atmospheric conditions, resources, viruses, the list is endless.

Would we then set sail for another world; or would we simply be prolonging our demise by drifting endlessly amongst the stars with no permanent home in sight? Eventually the ship will deteriorate beyond our abilities to repair it due to lack of raw materials etc., this could simply become impossible.

Then there is governance of the population on board the ark and on our new home. Time has proven that we are prone to self interests, this is unlikely to change. Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. This is the ultimate truism.

I don't wish to crap in anyone's cornflakes but the foregoing roadblocks to a successful trek to the stars to simply escape impending doom may make such a scenario utterly impossible.

IMHO, I would rather party hearty and complete my bucket list with as many people as possible. I would rather go out with a bang (pun intended) than to contribute to the greatest folly the world has ever seen. In the words of the immortal Bill and Ted: "Party on dudes!"

I knew in the movie 2012 and the arcs they had built in there was a well though out idea.

Is this the real world application of that idea? If so how much do you think they are charging for a "just in case" boarding pass?

a reply to: MysterX

That Doom Porn snip-it filled me up, yum yum dooooom.lol

And not a minute too soon!! Actually, the idea is at least a generation or 2 old. But, as someone else here said, it was bound to happen eventually.

It will take a long time to build something like this, but technology-wise I imagine it's achievable. It may end up being a race with the infamous Doomsday Clock, though. Last I checked, it was around 5 minutes til midnight.

Anyway, with all the planet-killing technology developing rapidly these days, plus the chance of being smacked by a killer astroid or comet, and also the likelihood that some day before long a careless lab technician will accidently release the dreaded Doomsday Virus, I think it's time we start working on an escape plan. We need to start spreading our celestial wings. It may be the only thing to ensure that Humans survive much longer.

Good OP Interesting topic...

Why think about building this now without any visible threat. Well it would be better to have an ark and not need it than to need it and not have it. If a threat were to materialize and did not leave enough time to do anything about it we would all be screaming why did we not have something in place just in case.

originally posted by: Heedbanger
Why think about building this now without any visible threat. Well it would be better to have an ark and not need it than to need it and not have it. If a threat were to materialize and did not leave enough time to do anything about it we would all be screaming why did we not have something in place just in case.

Because the costs involved for the good of the few vs. the good of the many are too high. There are simply too many variables that could doom the project to inevitable failure. Sending the remnants of humanity to an uncertain future is just as crazy as doing nothing. In order to minimize the costs, and maximize the benefits, smaller expeditions such as the recently proposed Mars habitat will serve to prove that we are able to survive in a hostile alien environment. Building on the lessons learned from such sorties we can then begin to understand the principles involved in sending many groups to a brighter future.

Nothing lasts forever. There have been many mass extinctions in the past and there will undoubtedly be more in the future. I agree that we will move to the stars but we have to be realistic about how we can accomplish this truly remarkable feat. Instead of trying to rush our way through the process, intelligent thought must prevail.

Shy of having flying saucers landing on the proverbial White House Lawn and their occupants handing us the technology to make our dream an immediate reality, this idea in the near future (1,000 plus years I'd wager) is a scientific pipe dream.

a reply to: JadeStar

Try trillions.

Well you can tell I didn't do any math work on my "millions of years' comment.

At least I now know that when I'm Doctor Who-ing around I won't have any worries.

originally posted by: wildespace
The "Doom" might be closer to home than ATSers think. The Earth might become extremely overpopulated, we run out of oil and other non-renewable resources, global wars, nuclear disasters, etc. And so a few thousands of the "chosen ones" might decided to leave us all to our sorry being and depart for a better place.

We take so much for granted. The water flows when we turn the faucet, it would only take a few bad years for the wells to dry up and a lot of the rivers. change can come very fast.