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Eerily familiar...German officials say exchange student's killing in Mont. 'out of proportion'

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posted on May, 7 2014 @ 11:26 PM
link guess he had a bad day that day too as this article alleges he ran a woman off the road and threatened to assault her.....

A resident in the Grand Creek neighborhood says on Saturday - just hours before the shooting - says she was heading home on Lower Prospect Drive when she came upon a pickup truck going about 10 mph in a 25 mph speed - adding the driver than slowed down to no more than 5 mph. The woman says when the road eventually widened; she took her chance to pass the vehicle. And what happened next was nothing she could have imagined happening in her neighborhood. The woman says as she went to pass, the pickup swerved in front of her, and forced her along the curb. That's when she says the man got out of the car. She said the man was extremely angry and started yelling profanity at her and as he got closer and closer to her car he became more upset. She said the man appeared to be manic and that she immediately noticed what she describes as white foam on the edges of his mouth. As the situation further escalated, she said she became frightened that he might throw a punch at her through the window. She told the man she was going to report him to police and she tried to backup. He then pulled out in front of her and continued up the hill going less than 5 mph. Later that night, when she saw emergency vehicles in her neighborhood she called 911 suspecting that the same man who confronted her, may somehow have been involved in the second incident. It wasn't until she saw Markus Kaarma's picture as the suspect in Darin Dede's death that she had a name to the face.
could be a case of people smelling blood in the water and piling on but it sure as hell wont help his image once the trials start,dont think hes being charged for this and its an alleged additional incident so take it for what its worth ats just trying to add more info the case

posted on May, 21 2014 @ 09:21 PM
another update its the first one to shed light on why that kid was in the garage,he was what they called "garage hopping" going into garages to steal booze,they focus on how bad it was the kid got shot and pretty much gloss over the break in like it isnt relevant but like i said its the first to even try to explain what he was doing

video above says youtube but its from cnn but as this is the paper digging up any and all dirt they can on this guy ill try to find a few more links PDF of the afidavit HUGELY informative,they caught the other burglers of his home (previous robberies not this one) (page 17 of pdf) details the plans of his defense attorneys

MISSOULA - If Markus Kaarma goes on trial for deliberate homicide in the shooting death of a foreign exchange student, his defense team will likely attempt to put the actions of Missoula Police on trial too. A statement issued by the attorney defending Kaarma says his client's actions were made out of fear and anxiety for himself and his family. Paul Ryan says the family had items like a wallet and credit cards stolen and each time they contacted local law enforcement but no arrests were made and the family was unaware of any action taken by police. Ryan says those feelings of fear escalated due to a lack of response from law enforcement who made no arrests after their garage was burglarized three times in less than a month. "Markus felt a high level of fear and anxiety for himself and his family due to the burglaries and lack of response from law enforcement," Ryan's statement read.

edit on 21-5-2014 by RalagaNarHallas because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-5-2014 by RalagaNarHallas because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 25 2014 @ 09:01 PM
link few more updates

Also in the order, the court ordered a witness - former foreign exchange student Robby Pazmino from Ecuador - to be physically present at the trial. Police say Pazmino was standing outside Kaarma's garage when Kaarma shot and killed 17-year-old Diren Dede on April 27. Pazmino told police they "garage hopped" with other friends three or four times but had always stayed in the car. But on the night of the shooting, Pazmino said he thought Dede went into the garage to find alcohol. McLean denied the prosecutor's request to have Pazmino appear by VisionNet in Wednesday's order, insisting Pazmino be physically present at the December trial. Jury selection is set to begin on Dec. 1 in Missoula District Court.
so trial set to start soon and what looks like a brilliant strategy by his defense ,if they can get the other exchange student back from ecuador to testify i would assume part of the lawyers resasoning is be able to confront his acusers and a witness to the event in court and 2.IF he shows up under the felony murder rule he could in theory be charged for Diren Dede and thus would not be likely to come back to united states and increase Karmas chances for beating the murder charge this one talks about how for the third time his change of venue attempt was shut down

posted on Nov, 25 2014 @ 09:15 PM
Why would a US judge think he can order a former foreign exchange student, Robby Pazmino from Ecuador, to appear. If I was Robby Pazmino, I would not be coming back just in case the US courts shoved my tail in jail.

In his shoes, I would just hold up my middle finger.

Why would he come back?

To do that, he would need some faith in the US Justice system, and I doubt he has that.


posted on Nov, 25 2014 @ 09:22 PM
a reply to: pheonix358

which is why its kind of a genius strategy by his lawyer kid either comes back and possibly faces felony murder rule or does not show up and karma can try to get off on a technicality of not being able to have witnesses at his trial or face accusers etc i guess we do have an extridition treaty with them but don't think its relevant in this case and i guess they have loop holes for this as well

dont think he can be forced to come either way and that is why i think its more of his lawyers tactic then anything else

3-19.113 International Witness An international witness is a witness who resides outside the territory of the United States. They may be citizens of other countries or of the United States. The Department of Justice must observe the laws and regulations of the other countries when contacting these person

as the kid is one of if not the key witness the case could fall apart if he does not show up and he did conspicuously leave the country quickly afterwards.I think the only witnesses left if hes not at trial would be karma and his wife as the german kid is dead

i guess the judge said he could not testify unless it was in person and that he could not testify over video program(like skype etc) so its not that the judge is trying to subpoena him its that he wont allow testimony that is not given in person
edit on 25-11-2014 by RalagaNarHallas because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 25 2014 @ 09:34 PM
a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

The US Justice system is so full of technicalities that the case can fail

All Justice systems based on an adversarial model are driven by the need to 'win' a case rather than trying to find the truth in the matter.

That is a huge flaw and always will be.

I can not see much difference in the witness appearing by a video link. It is not like a Police interview where they need him in person so they can beat a confession out of him. This is in court so I tend to see this as the Judge has already decided the issue and all of this is window dressing for the international community.


posted on Nov, 25 2014 @ 09:44 PM
When I was young, I was being chased by a group of thugs and ran into a nearby garage in to get away from them in order to pretend it was my place. The homeowner came out startled and I explained to him what happened and he invited me into his house to wait it out.

Should I have been shot before I was able to explain myself?
edit on 25-11-2014 by jacobe001 because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 25 2014 @ 09:53 PM
a reply to: jacobe001

seeking shelter from violence and asking for assistance is far different from allegedly attempting to take beer/booze/karmas stash after two previous robberies

i would say the results of your situation would go differently depending on what area you were in rural or city as in most of rural Montana you don't just go walking up to some ones house with out making noise and announcing your self ,town is a bit different but still you can run into people that don't like any kind of visitors here so that could be hit or miss either way

should you have been shot? obviously not, (taking your statements at face value) but several home invasion robberies have been done exactly that way (some one requesting help and then attacking)

posted on Nov, 25 2014 @ 10:27 PM

originally posted by: pheonix358

Ending a life MUST BE a last resort only when you are in mortal danger.


But try telling that to all of the cops out there.

posted on Nov, 25 2014 @ 10:45 PM
Terrible situation, if it is what happened.
Comments seem to shed a sense of "Crazy" about Marcus? Apportioning blame perhaps?
Was the garage/home actually broken into?...Was the "body" already in there and shots fired as a decoy?
I dont know. Not much info in the article.

Interesting to be aware that the boy was Not a German "Native", He is only a first generation citizen of Turkish Heritage. this some crazy Muslim payback? Was he Mr Karmaa a staunch Christian?Did their paths cross, or is this random as portrayed.

As you can see...lots and lots of questions, much more investigation to happen before the truth may be established.

NCIS needs to come in on this one...right DeBozo....

posted on Nov, 25 2014 @ 11:04 PM
I'm amazed at the heartless responses. This was a kid. To live in that much fear that one would feel the need to shoot a kid who had not attacked you is simply sad. It's murder. The home owner was protecting himself from a kid being in his garage? A grown man living in that much fear or a grown man being that hateful and protective of his probably insured belongings? Either way I would be more afraid of that kind of man than of any 17 year old boy on my property.

I ran away from home because of severe abuse as a teen. I slept in people's garages and sheds. Slept in a public library and on a construction site. Guess I should have been shot. It would have been justice for trespassing after all.

posted on Nov, 25 2014 @ 11:51 PM
a reply to: RalagaNarHallas

Stealing some alcohol does not warrant death. Teenagers get up to nonsense all the time. They grow up and either laugh about or regret the stupid things they did. This kid won't have a chance to.

posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 12:28 AM
a reply to: gort51

not sure what your trying to imply(did u think the German exchange student of turkish decent was a terrorist?) but race/religion is not a factor in this one as i dont think he id the person in his garage before the altercation id have to go look for older links with the full story with all the details

cliff notes memory: karma had had his garage broken into repeatedly in the past weeks months of when the incident originally occurred so he set up a camera and according to his wife may have left garage open with valuables visible

german exchange student Diren Dede 17 who we have no testimony from was shot while in garage with 1-3 shot gun blasts (no autopsy released yet i dont think) was an exchange student of Turkish decent from Germany as he was shot in a darkened garage i doubt race/religion played a factor

Robby Pazmino the exchange student from ecuador that was with diren that night and whos statements we get most of our info from (see earlier links in thread and above link posted by me) he seems to be the only other witness other then karma and his wife but he is in ecuador and has been there since talking to police and then leaving for his home country a few months ago. his statments seem to confirm that their intent was to break in/enter the garage to possibly get alcohol but no other person has given testimony to possibly explain Direns reasons for entering the garage .according to above link he will have to show up in person to testify at the trial if he wishes to give testimony and will not be allowed to use electronic means to do so.

other factors allegedly(not proven in court yet) karma was involved in a road rage incident earlier in the day i think i posted a link on one of the earlier pages

allegedly the burglaries were people breaking in and stealing his stash

karma has tried to change venue 3 times unsuccessfully due to media attention it was getting a few months ago

his lawyers (karmas) seem to have suppressed a good deal of stuff from being brought up in the trial ,examples of not referring to Diren as the victim, and not submitting his blood test results during trial for fear of biasing the jury (he was allegedly high on the pot) and a few other conditions i cant remember off hand

the germans are not pleased in general about the situation and its possibly made worse by several other deaths of Germans in accidents in Montana in the past few years (one tried to pet a bison in the bison reserve near hot springs and it ended badly)

thats all i can remember off hand

edit to add link for lawyers trying to set rules for the trial

The defense team is asking that five things be excluded from the trial: Photographs of the dead student, Diren Dede. In the motion, the team says this is irrelevant to the case, and will only be used to "arouse hostility towards Mr. Kaarma and engender sympathy toward the deceased." The term "victim" when referring to Dede. The team writes, "while it is a tragedy, he (Dede) is not a victim. The deceased burglarizing (sic) Mr. Kaarma's residence, and in the commission of a forcible felony lost his life." They go on to say the term is prejudicial towards Kaarma. The marijuana level in Kaarma's blood. According to the motion, the state intends to introduce the level of marijuana found in Kaarma's blood. But the defense team says the state "presumably is only attempting to influence the juries' thinking that somehow this level of metabolite (blood molecules) must have effected (sic) Mr. Kaarma but they are unwilling to offer testimony as to what this effect may have been." Statements by neighbors that infer Kaarma was involved with drugs. The team says this is "inherently prejudicial". According to the motion, neighbors have said that Kaarma was very active at night and at times did not get out of bed until 4:00 in the afternoon. But the team says his sleeping patterns and the coming and going of his friends are irrelevant to the case. The terms "luring and baiting". The motion says the prosecution's theory is that Kaarma lured and baited Dede into his garage, but the team claims there is no evidence to support that theory. link on what concessions prosecution made
edit on 26-11-2014 by RalagaNarHallas because: add links

posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 01:07 AM
Markus lives in Grant Creek, Missoula County, Montana, pop 854 and for a small town it has a high crime rate.

(Oct and Nov 2014 only copied and pasted)

Grant Creek crimes

Date Type Address

11/24/2014 Other 3500 BLOCK OF SCHRAMM ST
11/24/2014 Other 4200 BLOCK OF EXPRESSWAY
11/23/2014 Other 4200 BLOCK OF EXPRESSWAY
11/23/2014 Arrest INTERNATIONAL DR
11/22/2014 Other 4000 BLOCK OF HWY 93 S
11/22/2014 Theft 3000 BLOCK OF STOCKYARD RD
11/21/2014 Other 5100 BLOCK OF HWY 93 S
11/21/2014 Other STOCKYARD RD
11/21/2014 Assault 3500 BLOCK OF SCHRAMM ST
11/21/2014 Arrest 5200 BLOCK OF GRANT CREEK RD
11/21/2014 Arrest 5200 BLOCK OF GRANT CREEK RD
11/20/2014 Assault 5200 BLOCK OF GRANT CREEK RD
11/20/2014 Theft 4000 BLOCK OF HWY 93 S
11/19/2014 Theft 4800 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
11/16/2014 Other 4000 BLOCK OF HWY 93 S
11/16/2014 Other 2700 BLOCK OF EXPO PKWY
11/14/2014 Other 4000 BLOCK OF HWY 93 S
11/14/2014 Theft 4000 BLOCK OF HWY 93 S
11/12/2014 Assault 5200 BLOCK OF GRANT CREEK RD
11/12/2014 Theft 4800 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
11/12/2014 Theft 4800 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
11/11/2014 Theft Other 4000 BLOCK OF HWY 93 S
11/08/2014 Other 3800 BLOCK OF RESERVE ST
11/08/2014 Assault 4000 BLOCK OF HWY 93 S
11/04/2014 Other 4000 BLOCK OF HWY 93 S
11/04/2014 Other 4000 BLOCK OF HWY 93 S
11/03/2014 Arrest 4500 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
10/31/2014 Other 4800 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
10/31/2014 Theft 4000 BLOCK OF HWY 93 S
10/25/2014 Other 4500 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
10/23/2014 Theft 4800 BLOCK OF GRANT CREEK RD
10/21/2014 Vandalism 4800 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
10/20/2014 Other 4800 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
10/19/2014 Arrest 3800 BLOCK OF RESERVE ST
10/18/2014 Assault 5000 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
10/17/2014 Assault 4800 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
10/15/2014 Other 4900 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
10/13/2014 Theft 3000 BLOCK OF STOCKYARD RD
10/11/2014 Other 4800 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
10/10/2014 Arrest 5300 BLOCK OF GRANT CREEK RD
10/10/2014 Theft 3600 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
10/08/2014 Other 4100 BLOCK OF HWY 93 S
10/05/2014 Other 5000 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
10/05/2014 Other 5000 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
10/05/2014 Other 5500 BLOCK OF CREEKSTONE DR
10/05/2014 Other 4800 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST
10/05/2014 Other 4300 BLOCK OF EXPRESSWAY
10/04/2014 Arrest 3800 BLOCK OF RESERVE ST
10/04/2014 Theft 3700 BLOCK OF N RESERVE ST

On October 29, 2014, Tristan Staber on Wednesday pleaded guilty to a felony and misdemeanor for burglarizing Markus Kaarma's garage in Missoula. Kaarma fatally shot a German exchange student in his garage, after it had been repeatedly burglarized.
• Associated Press
MISSOULA — The 18-year-old accused of burglarizing Markus Kaarma's home in the days prior to the fatal shooting of another teenager in Kaarma's garage has pleaded guilty to a felony and a misdemeanor.... 7c97da8023.html#ixzz3K9UeZmiJ

Prosecutors claim Kaarma was agitated. He'd been victimized by burglaries before and he was out to get the people responsible.
They claim Kaarma went to his Grant Creek home's garage to confront an intruder he'd been watching on a surveillance camera. He fired into the dark garage without hearing or saying anything. Court documents say Dede, a German foreign exchange student, was the intruder. Prosecutors say the garage was open and Dede was garage hopping, looking for something to drink.

Diren Dede, the 17-year-old German foreign exchange student who was shot to death late last month, was reportedly looking for an alcoholic beverage when he wandered into a garage in Missoula’s Grant Creek neighborhood. He had never been in Markus Kaarma’s garage until just after midnight on April 27, said an Ecuadorian exchange student who was with Dede that night. Seconds later, he lay dying on the cement after Kaarma fired four shots into the darkened garage. An amended affidavit filed by Deputy Missoula County Attorney Andrew Paul late Monday said two of the shots struck Dede – in the head and arm. Kaarma, 29, is charged with deliberate homicide. His attorney said the former firefighter will enter a not guilty plea. According to the new, 19-page charging document, Missoula City Police officers J. Jones and Ross Colyer arrived at the Deer Canyon Court residence at 12:23 a.m

In the early morning hours (like midnight) of April 27, 2014, he went garage hopping looking for something to drink???? Sure, okay. because we all keep our vodka in our garages. It appears the family wasn't very well off financially:

He (Diren Dede) was to be in the U.S. for just another six weeks, but now the family plans a burial in Turkey, the newspaper reported.

Diren Dede played soccer for his Missoula high school and in Germany. His former team in Hamburg was to play a charity match Wednesday to help the family pay for the funeral and other costs.

If the above information is accurate, Kaarma left his garage open, bad oops?, entrapment? Apparently he was watching inside his home of the events in the garage. He has to prove he was in fear of his life, considering he was watching on private security unarmed suspect, and Karma left his house while armed to engage the suspect, it might be difficult. Dede had a friend with him (see above bolded section). I haven't been able to determine if the friend was in the garage also, but it could be that Kaarma saw two intruders. Considering the high crime rate in this small town and from some reviews, the lack of police intervention, I also would be on high alert and a bit nervous. I have tried to place myself in the same situation and conditions and I believe I would have at least yelled for him to get on the ground while keeping my gun aimed in his general direction.

This site also quoted above, sheds a lot of light on the WHOLE actual event so if possible, check it out:[editby ]edit on 26-11-2014 by StoutBroux because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 01:15 AM
a reply to: StoutBroux

good links and thanks for adding more info but im not sure if he had any duty to retreat even with the garage open partiality otherwise as we are a castle doctrine state with no duty to retreat from a dwelling (court case should decide this though and it may lead to changes in the law) it reads almost like the rules for police shooting a suspect

Montana has a castle law with a “stand-your-ground” clause. Under the law, the use of deadly force is permissible to prevent felonies from being committed in one’s home or to protect against assault within one’s home. The statute reads: 45-3-103. Use of force in defense of occupied structure. (1) A person is justified in the use of force or threat to use force against another when and to the extent that the person reasonably believes that the use of force is necessary to prevent or terminate the other person's unlawful entry into or attack upon an occupied structure. (2) A person justified in the use of force pursuant to subsection (1) is justified in the use of force likely to cause death or serious bodily harm only if: (a) the entry is made or attempted and the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent an assault upon the person or another then in the occupied structure; or (b) the person reasonably believes that the force is necessary to prevent the commission of a forcible felony in the occupied structure.
so "he feared for his life" and hes good to go and with just his testimony they might not be able to get over the castle doctrine hurdle although he get witnessed alegedly saying some pretty stupid things in context before this all went down that may hurt him older link talking about how it could lead in theory to changes to the castle doctrine PDF so be wary of that low bandwith users but this summarizes the attemtps to get a change of venue and why
edit on 26-11-2014 by RalagaNarHallas because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 26 2014 @ 01:28 AM
link german link you will need translate to read but figured id show the german perspective as well gun news conservative take on the matter and one more link from 6 days ago talking about how the judge is apparently trying to order the witness from Ecuador to come back (not sure how this would work honestly)

Missoula County District Judge Ed McLean has ordered an Ecuadorian witness to be physically present at the December trial of Markus Kaarma, who stands accused of deliberate homicide in the shooting death of a 17-year-old foreign exchange student. Former exchange student Robby Pazmino was standing outside Kaarma's Grant Creek garage last April 27 when Kaarma fatally shot Pazmino's friend, Diren Dede, a student from Germany. Pazmino later told police that Dede was looking for alcohol inside Kaarma's garage, and that they had participated in "garage hopping" several times in the past, but Dede had never entered a home before

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