It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Eerily familiar...German officials say exchange student's killing in Mont. 'out of proportion'

page: 1
20
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:
+2 more 
posted on May, 1 2014 @ 07:32 AM
link   
Well this case is strangely familiar to the other one where the guy waited for the teen intruders and killed them and was found guilty of murder and sentenced to life in prison. Wonder how this one will turn out.

Source



MISSOULA, Mont. – The German consulate called for justice Wednesday after a homeowner fired four blasts from a shotgun into his garage, killing a 17-year-old exchange student who was inside.

The investigation into the killing of Diren Dede of Hamburg should make clear that it is illegal to kill an unarmed juvenile just because he was trespassing, said Julia Reinhardt, spokeswoman for the consulate in San Francisco.


Here is the part that makes it so familiar:



It is not clear what Diren Dede was doing in Markus Kaarma's garage just before the shooting early Sunday morning. Prosecutors allege the 29-year-old wildland firefighter shot into his garage without warning after an intruder tripped sensors he had installed.

Just days before, Kaarma told a woman that his house had been burglarized twice and he had been waiting up nights to shoot an intruder, court records said.

Kaarma's attorney, Paul Ryan, said his client plans to plead not guilty to a charge of deliberate homicide because Montana law allows homeowners to protect their residences with deadly force when they believe they are going to be harmed.


So he installed sensors and waited for the intruder to break in again and shot him.

I really don't have a problem with this. You know, if people would quit doing bad things then bad things would not happen to them. The kid was somewhere he should not have been doing something he should not have been doing. If you are going to take a risk, then understand this could be the outcome....pretty simple logic to me, but it seems plenty fail to see this logic at all.




posted on May, 1 2014 @ 07:52 AM
link   
I also have to wonder, at what point can the law be taken into your own hands in a case like this? I mean, if it is shown that he did report the other break-in and multiples had occurred in the area, and the local police didn't do much about it, then I can completely understand his deciding to take this into his own hands.

I would be and have been frustrated by police response/lack of, in my area before as well. They can't be expected to be everywhere all the time, but if they are only focused on what gets money into their departments then what care do they have for a home being burglarized or something of a similar nature? Would a non-responsive police force be considered just as responsible for a death as the person who shot the intruder since they chose not to respond seriously to the initial intrusions? How far down the chain can liability be held? I would think that this should work as any job would work, if you fail to do your job you are held responsible ultimately.


+13 more 
posted on May, 1 2014 @ 07:56 AM
link   
a reply to: Vasa Croe

To be absolutely frank, no one should invade the property of another person, without the expectation of meeting a significantly brutal end. No one should expect to have their home invaded, without being able to apply the maximum force upon the invading person, since anyone who is prepared to invade anothers home, has a moral compass which cannot be trusted not to be deviant.

One cannot trust that the person coming through the window is of peaceful intent, since the act of invasion is an act of aggression. One must respond to such threat as if ones life depends upon it, for certainly, the moment one shows an intruder otherwise, one is prone to be destroyed in their place.

I find it disturbing that the German consulate is not more concerned that their young countrymen are breaking into the homes of foreign citizens, in a country in which they are a guest, and are therefore placing themselves not only in significant danger, but in a position which allows them to make a bad name for their country. That they this particular specimen has been removed summarily is of little consequence considering the sort of villainy he was about at the time of his demise.

Personally, I say good luck to the home owner.
edit on 1-5-2014 by TrueBrit because: Grammatical error removal.


+18 more 
posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:03 AM
link   
Firing blindly into a garage is simply wrong.

It just as easily could have been the home owners relative in there or an innocent person hiding from an evil doer.

I am all for protecting myself but only after I have assessed the risk, even to a minimal assessment.

Blowing away children is quite possible if you fire blindly.

This is the sort of thing that begs the phrase "Only In America."

It is wrong! We have the cops doing it and we have home owners doing it.

Should put them all together in an arena and get rid of the lot of them.

Ending a life MUST BE a last resort only when you are in mortal danger.

P

edit on 1/5/2014 by pheonix358 because: (no reason given)


+14 more 
posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:06 AM
link   
a reply to: Vasa Croe

I'm seeing more of the "victim" mentality among criminals (people who are breaking the law)

It's real simple.

Don't break into someone's house, and the chances of you getting shot, drop dramatically.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:11 AM
link   

originally posted by: pheonix358
Firing blindly into a garage is simply wrong.

It just as easily could have been the home owners relative in there or an innocent person hiding from an evil doer.

I am all for protecting myself but only after I have assessed the risk, even to a minimal assessment.

Blowing away children is quite possible if you fire blindly.

This is the sort of thing that begs the phrase "Only In America."

It is wrong! We have the cops doing it and we have home owners doing it.

Should put them all together in an arena and get rid of the lot of them.

Ending a life MUST BE a last resort only when you are in mortal danger.

P


I don't think this is only in America. So you would rather sit terrified inside your house wondering what was going to happen next? This has, according to the story, already happened twice to him and multiple times in the neighborhood. The cops that you speak of are forcing their way into a situation and making it happen. This is completely different...this was someone on the homeowners property forcing the situation that occurred.

I agree that ending a life must be a last resort, but at what point is that last resort going to present itself? A person breaks into your home and you don't know if they have an intent to harm you....do you wait to see if they try? Not me....the intruder had enough knowledge to break in so they are smart enough to know they could be arrested or shot...simple moral of the story....don't break in to people's houses and this won't ever happen to you.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:13 AM
link   

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: Vasa Croe

To be absolutely frank, no one should invade the property of another person, without the expectation of meeting a significantly brutal end. No one should expect to have their home invaded, without being able to apply the maximum force upon the invading person, since anyone who is prepared to invade anothers home, has a moral compass which cannot be trusted not to be deviant.

One cannot trust that the person coming through the window is of peaceful intent, since the act of invasion is an act of aggression. One must respond to such threat as if ones life depends upon it, for certainly, the moment one shows an intruder otherwise, one is prone to be destroyed in their place.

I find it disturbing that the German consulate is not more concerned that their young countrymen are breaking into the homes of foreign citizens, in a country in which they are a guest, and are therefore placing themselves not only in significant danger, but in a position which allows them to make a bad name for their country. That they this particular specimen has been removed summarily is of little consequence considering the sort of villainy he was about at the time of his demise.

Personally, I say good luck to the home owner.


I am actually a bit shocked at the same....you would think the consulate would address the break-in aspect of this. According to the article it had happened twice before to this homeowner and multiple times in the neighborhood. My inclination is to think that the kid that was shot had done this multiple times before and karma finally caught up to him.

Of course this will surely turn into "the homeowner was wrong" in the MSM reports. Common sense if very fleeting in criminals these days so might as well blame the victims of the criminal right?



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:13 AM
link   
dbl post
edit on 5/1/14 by Vasa Croe because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:13 AM
link   
a reply to: beezzer

Kids make mistakes. This one has no chance to redeem himself.

If the homeowner had held the guy, he would have gone through the legal system and eventually been deported in shame. It may have allowed him a second chance.

From what I read, an unarmed youth was gunned down. Surely a single blast into his legs would have sufficed. Four blasts? That is wrong in my view! That is a deliberate taking of a human life, a young one at that!

P



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:18 AM
link   

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: beezzer

Kids make mistakes. This one has no chance to redeem himself.

If the homeowner had held the guy, he would have gone through the legal system and eventually been deported in shame. It may have allowed him a second chance.

From what I read, an unarmed youth was gunned down. Surely a single blast into his legs would have sufficed. Four blasts? That is wrong in my view! That is a deliberate taking of a human life, a young one at that!

P


So the homeowner should be held responsible for not knowing the kid was unarmed? Should he have asked him first, or invited him in to have a conversation as to why he was breaking into his home and burglarizing it? I am sure a blast to the legs would have sufficed....unfortunately that isn't what happened.

What is wrong is blaming the homeowner for protecting his home.

I can only guess that those with this same view on situations like this have never had any experience with home invasion and don't understand just how scary of a situation it is.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:21 AM
link   

originally posted by: pheonix358
a reply to: beezzer

Kids make mistakes. This one has no chance to redeem himself.

If the homeowner had held the guy, he would have gone through the legal system and eventually been deported in shame. It may have allowed him a second chance.

From what I read, an unarmed youth was gunned down. Surely a single blast into his legs would have sufficed. Four blasts? That is wrong in my view! That is a deliberate taking of a human life, a young one at that!

P


We can also imagine that the "kid" might have killed the homeowner.

The fact is, we don't know.

The criminal instigated this, though.

Not the homeowner.

Yeah, the price was high. But I don't feel pity for anyone who purposely broke the law.

Personal story;
Staying at a hotel for quite a while, there were a series of break-ins to some rooms. Outside screens were damaged, windows left open. . . etc. No-one could find out who did it.
A group of us were smoking outside and discussing this.
I calmly told my wife, if she hears or sees anyone breaking into the room, shoot them.
Guess what?
No more attempted break ins occurred anywhere near our room.

I don't feel sorry for the person who deliberately broke into someone else's home to commit a crime.


+3 more 
posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:38 AM
link   
a reply to: pheonix358

Kids make mistakes. However, a willful act of criminal trespass with intent to remove property, or worse, is not a mistake. It is not an accident. The fellow deliberately broke into peoples houses, time and time again. That is not a mistake. A mistake is an error made while attempting something else. The only way to mistakenly break into someones house, is if one trips on a stone, and somehow falls through a window . He meant to do it, and did it several times before. That is not error, that is not accident, that is not a mistake but a willful, conscious act, which deliberately ignores the law, and of course, morality.


edit on 1-5-2014 by TrueBrit because: Removal of "window." and replacing with "window ."



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:43 AM
link   

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: pheonix358

Kids make mistakes. However, a willful act of criminal trespass with intent to remove property, or worse, is not a mistake. It is not an accident. The fellow deliberately broke into peoples houses, time and time again. That is not a mistake. A mistake is an error made while attempting something else. The only way to mistakenly break into someones house, is if one trips on a stone, and somehow falls through a window. He meant to do it, and did it several times before. That is not error, that is not accident, that is not a mistake but a willful, conscious act, which deliberately ignores the law, and of course, morality.



Very well said.
2nd



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 08:57 AM
link   
It would be interesting to see if this kid has a past criminal history....break ins , theft, arrest, or anything of that nature. I wonder how the host family is dealing with this,not knowing the kid was out of the home....or if they can be sued for anything like negligence?



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 09:03 AM
link   

originally posted by: Meldionne1
It would be interesting to see if this kid has a past criminal history....break ins , theft, arrest, or anything of that nature. I wonder how the host family is dealing with this,not knowing the kid was out of the home....or if they can be sued for anything like negligence?


I am sure the police will search the home of the host family for stolen goods. Would not surprise me at all if he has a history of this, even in his home country. And yes, I believe the host family will probably be sued for negligence as they were in charge of the well being of a minor.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 09:03 AM
link   
dbl post
edit on 5/1/14 by Vasa Croe because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 09:07 AM
link   
Seems like this bloke just wanted to legally murder someone. No one should fire blindly into a garage or any other room, that’s incredibly reckless. I’m all for gun freedom and protecting yourself/property but geez, surely you have to have some common sense about you. Don’t fire until you have assessed the situation.

That kid shouldn’t have to had to die for such a thing. Frankly, I hope they throw the book at Markus Kaarma. How could he reasonably believe he was going to be harmed if all he saw was the senor going off? It could have been a cat or a rat. Jail the prick.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 09:09 AM
link   
People are increasingly crazy and paranoid.

Firing four blasts blindly into the garage is just crazy, cowardly and ignorant.



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 09:11 AM
link   
a reply to: Vasa Croe

A friend of mine is a staunch gun enthusiast, through and through.

He is pro gun in every sense.

You understand the picture I'm painting here? Because even he has a salt shot down the spout as his first shot.

There is a stark difference between stealing and killing, the punishment doesn't fit the crime.

Sitting and waiting to kill them just elevates it further.

It's premeditated murder, is it not?


edit on 1-5-2014 by AlphaHawk because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 1 2014 @ 09:13 AM
link   

originally posted by: kosmicjack
People are increasingly crazy and paranoid.

Firing four blasts blindly into the garage is just crazy, cowardly and ignorant.


How so? His house was burglarized twice prior to this in the recent past. I would not say he was crazy or paranoid.

Why is firing blasts into your own garage crazy, cowardly or ignorant? Seems a lot are supposing here that this guy did not have a clue. I would think that after setting up sensors and knowing his own property that he had more of a clue than anyone here as to what may/may not be in his garage.

Still simple, cut and dry to me. Burglar made a choice and unfortunately his choice cost his life, but he still made that choice.



new topics

top topics



 
20
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join