Researchers: Neanderthals were not inferior to modern humans

About 3 years ago I wrote a paper for my Old World Archaeology class that was about a cave bear thigh bone that had
holes drilled into it, making it resemble a flute. It was found in a cave called Divje Babe and was dated to around 34,000 - 36,000 years ago (accounting for Carbon calibration). What makes this find truly incredible is that there was no evidence of Homo Sapien habitation in the area until 30,000 years ago. It is more likely that it was created and utilized by Neanderthals than Homo Sapiens.

This, to me, is a huge piece of evidence that Neanderthals were far more advanced than we ever considered. Recent studies in Neuroscience have shown that Music is a unique phenomenon that engages all parts of the brain simultaneously and also creates connections in areas of the brain that were previously thought to have no relation whatsoever. Perhaps it was music that drove our brains to develop into what they are today, but it started long ago with our direct and indirect genetic ancestors.

Just my two cents. Interesting topic OP. S&F for you.

a reply to: LABTECH767
You are probably correct,I think I read that certain areas of the brain were larger than ours,but maybe not the whole brain.
Even so,it would be amazing to meet such a person today-but sadly we have no chance of that.

a reply to: MonkeyFishFrog

I think it was music that ushered in transcendentalism in humanoid beings. Percussive music, to be more specific.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan
I would bet that Neaderthals had their form of drum beats.
Maybe mammoth bone drums and hollow wood.
Imagine being able to go back and hear those beats...I would love that.
I bet they are still similar to todays tribal rhythms though,we still beat the rhythm of the earth.

a reply to: watchitburn

I think what you might be missing here is a major catastrophe that may have wiped them out...In my opinion it was done on purpose as a cleansing to make way for new and improved species (humans). I think this cycle has been done many many times over and the same may happen to us if we don't start changing our ways and thinking differently. Just because they are not around any longer does not make them less than us... For all we know they were smarter than we are and already left this rock...or maybe went underground...Maybe they are in the ships that people see all the time and not the Grays..hmmm..I don't have the answers but I like to keep an open mind.

originally posted by: Silcone Synapse
a reply to: LABTECH767
You are probably correct,I think I read that certain areas of the brain were larger than ours,but maybe not the whole brain.
Even so,it would be amazing to meet such a person today-but sadly we have no chance of that.

I thought they were very entertaining in the Geico commercials a few years back.

Wonder if they could play basketball. (sure couldn't play tennis)

I also wonder if they were...racists.

a reply to: Silcone Synapse

an ages old shaman practice is the use of percussives in confined spaces like caves.

I would suspect that melody and harmony came later. Rhythm was the beginning.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

I agree. I think it was percussion that was our first... either that or our voices. But it was a great foundation for our brains to develop complicated and symbolic reasoning.

originally posted by: LABTECH767
a reply to: watchitburn

They were a more or less equal species but they had one major flaw, there larger musculature meant they had a higher metabolic rate and required far more callories than a modern human or our even more efficiant hunter gatherer ancestor's required, this meant they had less time for the accoutrement's of culture when the game was becoming scarce as they also ate far more meat then we do but they were certainly not the bumbling idiot's saying "ug" that popular victorian fiction made out and buried there dead with red ochre so had religion and ceremony, they made tool's and what survives is only the stone so we truly do not know how advanced there wood craft may have been and I have to agree that it means that especially during more plentiful times some tribe's or offshoot's of the neanderthal race's may indeed have been capable of civilization but so far we have not identified any neanderthal city's of town's though there are supposedly remnants of 500 thousand year of three sided beach hut's in japan which may have had a animal skin of fabric fourth side, there wide distribution around the world also suggests they where capable of navigation of water though land bridges are the only provable path to survive for our ruminations.

As for city's and town's there are many enigmatic structures and anomoly's around the world from rock wall texas to many other sites, most of the northern hemisphere has suffered severe glaciation so that would have scoured many possible interglacial sites and when it was at the height of glaciation given that they may also have fished there possible sites would be in areas now submerged while the windswept hinterland were we now live as it was then was not really a desirable location except for there more primitive tribes of hunters and gatherer's.
Cro magnon was probably faster, lighter and had a higher birth rate, there ability to move around on less calories made them superior hunters and they thrived eventually displacing or starving off the remaining neanderthal tribes, this lower calorific requirement also meant cro magnon had more time for art and culture with the accompanying ceremony and society's.
The bones of a neanderthal were far thicker and there musculature far larger, they often had broken bone's but cared for there sick so they healed and we find that often they lived even when they could no longer hunt so they were simply people whom cared about one another like many tribal people of today, There more rudimentary stone work may simply be down to if it works why change it when you do not have time to do much other then hunt and when we look at them we really should see ourselves in there lives.
When modern mans' ancestors encountered them it appears both community's copyed off of one another though modern man was truly in many way's superior, more efficiant metabolism meaning longer hunting expedition's and better tool use to make up for there weaker build and as time progressed modern man gained larger brains on average though today you will find many people with brains smaller than the larger neanderthal cranium's could hold and not dim whitted modern people either.
Where is seem's we differed mentally is not so much in the size of our brains but in our expression of art and most cave painting's can undeniably be traced to out of africa cro magnon people's and art is a form of abstract expression that maybe the neanderthal where capable of understanding but not emulating, with that came our other abstract idea's.

Physic's, advanced mathematic's, astrology, and religion (which the neanderthal's seem to have had so maybe this is wrong) all seem to have benefited as did planning and organization from this shared artistic trait (the use of make up by neanderthal would also seem to disprove this as well so?) and as has been pointed out we are a hybrid descendant so in truth the neanderthal are not extinct at all and may be right here, now where did I put that club (they probably used stone/flint tipped spears but the bow seem's to have originated long after there time) there is a nice tasty mastodon outside.

Neanderthals did in fact have cave art, I'll let you be the judge about which is "superior".

Neanderthal cave art:



Cro-Magnon cave art:

A recent article in the journal Science suggests that Neanderthals and Sapiens share 99.84 genetic identity, i.e. there is 0.12% difference between our species.

A decent (readable) summary of the Science article is found here.

The differences are epigenomic ... which applies to which sequences are present but are turned "off or on" ...

I would submit that a species that was successful for around 400-500,000 years didn't just throw in the towel when the new neighbors arrived ...

When you consider the epigenome, who "assimilated" who, becomes a very, very interesting question.

a reply to: Gallowglaich

Well said and thank you for correcting me, very intriguing and in fact to my eyes they are every bit as good as one another and show equal ability in abstract thought and expression as well as intelligence.
Thank you,
Now something strange,
strangeaccounts.tumblr.com...
www.jackcuozzo.com...
This put's paid to my knowledge and proves another commentors statement about larger neanderthal brains, larger and how.
www.tested.com...
And of course the Lapedo child, a child whose remains started the whole part neanderthal question about us going or rather one of them, this was in southern spain though earlier possible hybrid's have been found in israel now,
www.ancient-origins.net...
en.wikipedia.org...

I grew up on the Texas gulf coast. When I was a kid the invasive fire-ant was a huge problem. Now there is a new kid in town...the crazy ant.
en.wikipedia.org...
Fire ants are hard to find now.
I think it probably happened something like that.

I sense that there is a new type of human coming into existence. The old race, the greedy and violent monkeys that are currently in the higher positions of power, they and their kind will dwindle to extinction. That's just me being optimistic.

originally posted by: skunkape23
I sense that there is a new type of human coming into existence. The old race, the greedy and violent monkeys that are currently in the higher positions of power, they and their kind will dwindle to extinction. That's just me being optimistic.

And who are the violent greedy monkeys? Please, do tell. Be specific about who you are referring to, "skunkape".

Go ahead and speak your mind, don't hold back.

a reply to: Gallowglaich

I believe I said all that I needed to say without naming specific names. I wish I could live long enough to see it all come out of the wash, but that is not likely.

originally posted by: skunkape23
I grew up on the Texas gulf coast. When I was a kid the invasive fire-ant was a huge problem. Now there is a new kid in town...the crazy ant.
en.wikipedia.org...
Fire ants are hard to find now.
I think it probably happened something like that.

Britain has a similar problem with Grey Squirrels and Red Squirrels - the grey squirrels are displacing the red squirrels through aggressive behavior.

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Chronon

Pretty interesting, thanks for sharing.

I'm no paleoanthropologist, but I'm going to have to disagree. While they may not have been as cave manny as commonly assumed. It stands to reason that if they we not inferior they would still be around. Since they are not around any more, that would lead us to believe they were unable to adapt to their changing environment. Making them less fit for continued existence. Hence inferior.

Maybe I'm missing something.

One group of modern humans has been effectively wiped out by newcomers (also modern humans). One new technology can make all the difference. The evidence is that modern humans were better adapted to hunting in the changed terrain, Neanderthals weren't as agile (although brutally muscled). An advantage of only one percent survival a generation will lead to one group overtaking another in a few thousand years.

You also need to remember we have Neanderthal ancestry. They weren't that different to modern humans.

originally posted by: stormcell

originally posted by: skunkape23
I grew up on the Texas gulf coast. When I was a kid the invasive fire-ant was a huge problem. Now there is a new kid in town...the crazy ant.
en.wikipedia.org...
Fire ants are hard to find now.
I think it probably happened something like that.

Britain has a similar problem with Grey Squirrels and Red Squirrels - the grey squirrels are displacing the red squirrels through aggressive behavior.

The grey squirel was introduced to the UK on purpose, it is a classic example how humans shouldn't mess with nature. The grey squirel killed most of the red ones... I have not seen a red one in years, although I dare say there may be some somewhere. But yeah really bright idea that was lol

originally posted by: watchitburn
a reply to: Chronon



Pretty interesting, thanks for sharing.



I'm no paleoanthropologist, but I'm going to have to disagree. While they may not have been as cave manny as commonly assumed. It stands to reason that if they we not inferior they would still be around. Since they are not around any more, that would lead us to believe they were unable to adapt to their changing environment. Making them less fit for continued existence. Hence inferior.



Maybe I'm missing something.

Ot they were better adapted to their environment .... but less experienced at war, and were wiped out because they simply didn't make war.

If we were to look at what the Europeans did to the Native Indians, then here's my theory, when they moved into Southern Europe, the Africans with their diseases mated with some and then wiped out the Neanderthals, and then this mysterious blonde hair blue eyes individual from Northern Europe appeared 20,000 years later and mated with those who moved into Northern Europe. However, even though he survived the diseases, he couldn't really wiped them all out(the disease genes), there was only one of him after all.

It should be noted that when people say blonde hair blue eyes, they generally mean Northern Europeans and parts of the U.S only. There's a big difference between Southern Europe and Northern Europe. Most of France, Spain and Italy DO NOT have blonde hair blue eyes.

What people don't realize is that whether you live near or close to the equator makes just as much of a difference as to what continent you're from. As a general rule, the further you are to the equator, the bigger your brain is, but the smaller your eyes are. In fact, you could say that there's a much bigger difference Northern Europe and Southern Europe than between North East Asians and South East Asians, whereas the difference between North and South Europeans is in eye and hair color, the difference between North East Asians and South East Asians is in the eye size(the skin color varies).

It makes one wonder what exactly "race" means. Asia is a big continent, should we really include North East Asians
and South East Asians in the same category as Northern Europeans and Southern Europeans? Why is skin color and not say eye size the determinant?