A question of the Big Bang and infinity

I know! two new threads in one day begging for honest responses to my stupid questions

So this thread is dealing more with the idea of the big bang, infinity and the questions I have regarding those concepts

So I am well aware of what the Big Bang consists of. I have the general idea that the singularity gave rise to atoms and matter and space and life.

And I promise this is NOT a religious topic or means to bash science or religion

So what came before the Big Bang? All of the stuff we can fathom existed in that singularity and we have come from this event. So even if there was a Big Crunch before the Big Bang, where did this 'stuff' come from? I know it was all in the singularity but where did the it come from? How did it all get into the singularity in the first place?

Now the part that really blows my pea brain

If we satisfactorily answer my first question (and even if we don't) what existed outside of the singularity before the event took place? While my soul and heart have a darn hard time coping with the concept of infinity, I can wrap my mind around what infinity means. But did the Big Bang give rise to infinity or did this single point merely exist in already created space? If so, where did that space come from in the first place?

Yeah in case you can't tell my existential crises are peaking!

Thanks in advance to any and all who respond

In my opinion the stuff that makes the universe never came "from" anything because it has always existed in one form or another. Energy cannot be created or destroyed meaning it is eternal, so since everything in the universe is energy at different vibrations, everything in the universe has always existed. It's the law of preservation, everything is preserved to be transformed into something else later.

I don't think our big bang was the first, only one among an infinite number of them. Everything works in cycles, including the universe we live in.

Nothing existed before the big bang except the singularity. I believe a better word to describe the singularity would be GOD I will do my best to explain.

The singularity would have been all the energy in the universe in its raw pure state outside of time and therefore unobservable by anything other than itself. for anything to exist there has to be something or someone some force to perceive the existence of the singularity and as i stated already there is only the singularity so the singularity (GOD) perceived itself causing the big bang as it was now self aware and wanted to experience all there is.

In essence i believe the true god of the universe is the raw pure energy state of the singularity that kickstarted creation.

just my 2 cents lol

a reply to: KyoZero
Nobody knows the answer to either of those questions.
People like Lawrence Krauss speculate, but he/they admit it's speculation.

a reply to: KyoZero
I watched this video earlier today that, in my humble opinion, explained the (im)possibility of the big bang quite well. I'll let Trey Smith tell you, as he is much more articulate than i.

Thanks to all who respond be it through science or religion. It is definitely true we can't know all but I guess lately I have found myself pondering these things. Nothing special really as I am sure many people think of stuff like this time and again. I suppose I was looking for answers of how infinity can exist and what created infinity. You didn't disappoint either. Calm, rational answers without even the slightest of attitude. Rare in these parts and I thank you all

I suppose in the end I do believe in a supreme being/creator what have you. But then the reality is I am then driven to ask where did that being come from if it does exist? It's a sad state of affairs but these things have kept me up a few nights. I admit my weaknesses and one of them is I wish I could just live in the moment and not drive myself batty with stuff like this

Infinity simply is. Infinite something, not infinite void or nothing. Its been a long haul in working over all possible theories with a fine tooth comb to finally remember the double slit experiment, and the concept of infinite possibilities, and then started to realize all things in all states, in infinite variety, exist. Its like asking is it possible for nothing to exist or for something, then you realize, all exist, nothing, something and every variation in all varieties and densities. But nothing is nothing, empty and cancels itself out. So its always something.

a reply to: KyoZero

Energy always existed. It just keeps changing and changing. Nothing is ever created, things are just changed from one form into another.

For example, buildings aren't 'created'.
Stone which already exists is formed into a building.

In the same Energy already existed and it just changed into a form of particles or waves or any other form of matter.

In Physics, the Law of Conservation of Energy states that energy cannot be created or destroyed, it can only have its form changed [ 1].

a reply to: KyoZero

I love this question because it is one too that has captured my mind when I was young, and I loved to explorer it. Scientists obviously have come up with some incredible theories, but they are all just mere conjecture and fantasy. They like to claim those who believe in God believe in fairy-tales, but really those who come up with their fanciful flights of imagination are actually doing exactly what they claim believers of.

That is not to bash anyone either. Just to state a form of irony I see.

Our universe, KyroZero, is finite. As was mentioned earlier in this thread the first law of thermodynamics states that nothing can be created or destroyed. That is everything within our fixed universe whether matter or energy can only change states of existence.

And Einstein showed us with a marvelous equation that matter itself is stored energy. That is E=MC^2. That is mass, even a small portion of it contains a tremendous amount of energy.

Now the second law of thermodynamics is worth mentioning here, because it states that if things are left on their own in a fixed or isolated system tends to an order of decay or disorder.

Now the universe came from a certain event in the distant past, scientists claim to have pinpointed it to be around 13.8 billion years ago. Whether that is true, or will be changed with more study, probably matters little. The fact is, a long, long, long time ago a huge amount of energy formed our universe and all of the laws that regulate it. The four principle being: (1) Gravity, (2) Electromagnetism (electricity and magnetism are the same thing, only different sides of the wavelength), (3) The strong nuclear force (this holds sub-atomic particles together, it is an extremely strong force, the greatest in the universe, yet the one with the least range, its effects are not felt outside the nucleolus), and (4) the weak nuclear force. The last one is what bonds the atom together, it is millions of times weaker than the strong nuclear force, .

How is it that the universe from happenstance came to be with very precise and finely tuned laws? And it is incredible how finely tuned these laws are. Some of the forces are so exact, so finely tuned, to up to 120 decimal places! Just a little bit off the universe would have burned out already or would never had started to begin with.

The charges of an electron, for example in proportion to a proton* (sorry spell check made that protein) must be equal (and opposite obviously). A neutron must weigh more than the proton by a small amount. There must be a matching in the temperature of our sun, and the properties in chlorophyll before photosynthesis happens. If the strong nuclear force were just an extremely extremely small fraction weaker the sun would never have been able to generate energy by means of nuclear reactions. Yet a tiny hair of a fraction more, fuel needed to generate it would be unstable, and without the two remarkable resonances within red giants nothing beyond helium could have been created. (All elements heavier than helium are formed within the cosmic furnaces of dying super giants.)

We could go on and on and on. We could even look down to the DNA molecule and see how wonderful it is. The chances that DNA RNA and proteins needed to create life are more than 1 in a billion billion billion. That is, if you were to take some primordial soup, not the size of our earth, but the size of our universe, it would take much longer than the life of our universe (a mere 13 billion years) for them to have arisen exactly as needed. Again atheists like to look down their noses with arrogant disdain at a believer and call God a fairy-tale. Yet really, what they believe in, when you really get down to the crux of the matter is much more fanciful.

Now get to our questions, there are answers. If you will accept them or no, is up to you. But I will share them with you.

The Bible states that in the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Obviously this is not talking about his beginning but the beginning of our universe. So we know God is not from our universe. For it came from him, and he existed before it came into being. Now I know some will raise the objection that the creation account in Genesis cannot be accurate because it says God created heaven and earth in 6 literal days. But that is NOT what it says.

It merely states: "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth." - Genesis 1:1. It really doesn't state when it happened. So it does not disagree with science at all. In fact that statement has been proven. Because of the red-shifting in the stars our universe has proven to be expanding away from a place or origin. I will not go into it now here, because it would take up too much space, but the six creative days were God's preparing the earth for human habitation. The universe and everything in it had already long been in existence. Rather it is given from the perspective from someone on earth. For example when God said: "Let their be light," he is not talking about creating the universe which already existed. Rather he is referring to the fact that the atmosphere of our earth at that stage was so thick that no sunlight penetrated to the earth's surface. At that time the atmosphere was cleared up enough so that some sunlight did penetrate to the surface.

Also if you follow the Genesis account of how life arrived, in the successive creative days (not literal), it is in accord with scientific fact. First vegetation (which by means of photosynthesis made the earth's atmosphere an oxygen rich environment, and at the same time no doubt helped clear the atmosphere even more up to the point where the luminaries became visible in the night sky, the sun and the moon and the stars. Next he created sea life, and birds, and then land animals, and finally humans. The fossil record shows that how Genesis states life came to be is accurate. There is no doubt about it accuracy.

Now God is eternal. And he is the source of all energy. He does not live or exist in our physical plan, or in our universe. He cannot since he is far grander than our universe. In fact scripture states:

(2 Chronicles 2:6) . . .And who could retain power to build him a house? For the heavens and the heaven of the heavens cannot contain him. . .

That is the universe itself cannot contain God.

Now our sun in* the Milky Way is one but of many billions, a hundred billion it is said. And it is merely one of but perhaps trillions of galaxies, at least hundreds of billions of others in the universe. The Bible states:

(Isaiah 40:26) . . .“Raise YOUR eyes high up and see. Who has created these things? It is the One who is bringing forth the army of them even by number, all of whom he calls even by name. Due to the abundance of dynamic energy, he also being vigorous in power, not one [of them] is missing.

Yes, God can name every single star in our universe. That statement boggles the mind. Yet, notice here it states that they came to be because of God's abundance of "dynamic energy."

The energy God has at his disposal is supernatural, in that it is of a far greater energy than we know to exist in our universe. By means of that energy at his disposal he created the physical heavens in which we reside. ....ran out of room...hold on....cont..

a reply to: iSomeone

He himself being outside our universe and not bound to the physical laws which he created for our existence in the physical plane.

To understand the very essence and nature of God it is good to note that ones merely looking upon his face would cause his instant death:

(Exodus 33:20) . . .And he added: “You are not able to see my face, because no man may see me and yet live.”


The physical universe came from the spiritual plane of existence where the divine God resides who never had a beginning and who has no end. Who has at his disposal an eternal amount of supernatural energy to do with what he wills.

Our physical universe actually sits within the outer spiritual plane as a small part of it. But the spiritual plane is FAR FAR grander in scale, and beyond our imagining in wonderful spirit beings.

Outside of our heavens it is not dark. Rather there is a radiance of light beyond our wildest imaging. The Bible tells us that God himself illuminates it with his very being:

(Revelation 21:23) . . .And the city has no need of the sun nor of the moon to shine upon it, for the glory of God lighted it up, and its lamp was the Lamb.

(Revelation 22:5) Also, night will be no more, and they have no need of lamplight nor [do they have] sunlight, because Jehovah God will shed light upon them, and they will rule as kings forever and ever.

Those references are in regards to those select from among mankind (a very limited few) who die and are granted immortally and are resurrected in divine spiritual bodies in the image (the DNA you could say) of God himself.

a reply to: iSomeone

Our universe, KyroZero, is finite.

We don't know this. A lot of physicists lean towards to the infinite size of the universe.

The entire premises of your argument are flawed. It's essentially the tired old "Something can't come from nothing, therefore God created the universe".

Firstly, "Something can't come from nothing" is a very vague statement and one not backed up by anything other than "because i said so".

Secondly, "the universe came from nothing therefore God" is a non sequitur. We have no idea what happened before the singularity, speaking in terms of before and after makes no sense as time didn't exist at the point of the singularity. Furthermore, there is no logical connection between this and "therefore God did it". Really? Why the unsubstantiated false dichotomy? This is just a God of the Gaps argument, and I'm assuming it has to be your god, rather than one of the many thousands of other gods.

Finally, you play the Special Pleading card by saying "Well, no one created God because he's God". Didn't you just say earlier that "something can't come from nothing"? And now your exempting your own belief from that very premise?

originally posted by: KyoZero
Thanks to all who respond be it through science or religion. It is definitely true we can't know all but I guess lately I have found myself pondering these things. Nothing special really as I am sure many people think of stuff like this time and again. I suppose I was looking for answers of how infinity can exist and what created infinity. You didn't disappoint either. Calm, rational answers without even the slightest of attitude. Rare in these parts and I thank you all

I suppose in the end I do believe in a supreme being/creator what have you. But then the reality is I am then driven to ask where did that being come from if it does exist? It's a sad state of affairs but these things have kept me up a few nights. I admit my weaknesses and one of them is I wish I could just live in the moment and not drive myself batty with stuff like this

The answer is simple but hard to accept until you have conviction. You have always had the key to the mystery but you don't understand it fully. There is no mystery of what was before the Big Bang. You were there. The True You. Not this body nor this mind. They are a play of elements.The only thing that exists eternally is the Truth. There are trillions of parallel universes within the subatomic consciousness of the atom.

There is not infinite realities. There can only be one reality. Your original state is the stateless state. You are the Truth. Your eternal position is beyond time and space for You created them.You Are the God. But Just like Jesus Christ you took this burden of being human upon yourself. But you are both and neither and beyond both. You are the Supreme Being. Not an individual. The Ego gives rise to itself because it thinks itself separate because of time space giving the illusion of separate objects. In reality it is all one.

In fact all the myriads of universes and parralel universes are just an illusion, merely a shadow and play of light and elements on screen of awareness. It is all a Fraud. It is all Maya. It is all ignorance.

You that you that you know you are. The one fact you know that I do not have to prove to you intellectually is that you know you Are. That awareness is infinite and immortal and all pervading. It imagines consciousness to be. The entire manifest universe is consciousness. Consciousness is always of something.Consciousness needs awareness. But awareness does not need consciousness. Consciousness is the manifest form of Awareness. They are One . Simply two sides of the same coin.

The Key to the mystery is that the lifespan of an electron is 100 Billion Trillion Years. You will never die because You were never born. You are what You are seeking. You are Love Itself.

a reply to: KyoZero

If you imagine a big "collision" instead of a "bang" then this answers many questions.

Two (or more) large bodies colliding head on solves many a dimemma wouldn't you say?

a reply to: nerbot

And where did these two big bodies come from to collide? That's the point I think he's trying to ask... regardless of a bang or collision, where did it/they come from? And please no more of this God did it stuff... not you but others. If God did it, where did he come from? "But he is God, therefore he came from nowhere" doesn't answer the question.

My thought (not realiztic, but more so they should make a movie type of deal) is that we created ourselves using the LHC. What if we're actually living on one of the many particles created by the collision caused by ourselves inside the LHC vaccuum? Although those particles last only micro seconds in our visible time here, that could be eternity to small lifeform created. Therefore... we ourselves are God! Lol... seriously... they should make a movie.

I remember one night during college, a friend of mine and I sat around drinking beers, and we figured out a couple things, don't ask me how, but it made perfect sense at the time:

- The big bang and the 'big crunch' if it exists, are the same event.
- Every one lives in their own universe, so to speak. We share spacetime with each other, but our universe is our own. In other words, if you were to ask where the center of the universe is, it would be where YOU are - it is subjective. (Not to cater to egotists)
- If you happen to physically travel faster than light, you leave the universe you are in and create a new universe for yourself.

Like I said, it made a lot of sense with 7 Newcastles under our belts.

originally posted by: nerbot
a reply to: KyoZero

If you imagine a big "collision" instead of a "bang" then this answers many questions.

Two (or more) large bodies colliding head on solves many a dimemma wouldn't you say?

where have i heard that theory before? Mmm oh yeah, its mine www.abovetopsecret.com...

The singularity that gave rise to the 'Big Bang' appears to have created the space and time that make up our universe, as it came into being. This singularity may have emerged from another universe, which is separate from our own and unobservable.
Of coursed this does not answer the question: Why is there something instead of nothing? The existence of the other universe that may have given rise to the one we know would still have to be explained.
We can settle for the infinite regression of one universe spawning others, which in turn do the same, backward in time infinitely. This seems to evade the question.
Alternately, we can consider the logical but difficult-to-understand possibility that life in the universe ultimately perfects itself, transcends time and space and creates its own universe, its own beginning.

a reply to: GetHyped

Your argument is circular and makes no sense. Are you really trying to be sincere and understand things or are you trolling?

There was first cause for our universe. Your denying this does not negate scientific evidence that it did indeed have a beginning. Some scientists call it the "Big Bang." Whatever it was they have fairly proven that the universe is about 13.8 billion years old. If that changes or not does not negate the fact that they have found evidence of a beginning to our universe.

For you to state otherwise, is either dishonest on your part, or just ignorant. And perhaps that dishonesty is what leads you to not comprehend that something had to be eternal in the first place to cause it to come into existence. As you stated something cannot come from nothing, I didn't state that but you are correct. So as far as you can go back in your circular reasoning you have to come to a point where something/one did not have a beginning. There was a first cause.

What was that cause? The Bible claims that it was God, and it also explains how God was able to create the universe in the first place, because he is full of dynamic energy, wisdom, and might. It calls him the "King of eternity." And tells us he niether had a beginning nor will he ever have an end. He is eternal.

The fact that there is something eternal is not disputed. You would like to claim it is the universe itself, but scientific facts show that this cannot be.

Others may say that this universe just came from another universe, not an intelligent cause (ignoring all evidence to the contrary.) Still no matter how your circular logic goes back you still have to come to grips with the fact that at some point there is something that never had a beginning, or our universe never could have existed in the first place.

I have a feeling, from the way you responded you perhaps, out of blindness, and narrow-mindedness, will not be able to grasp or comprehend this simple logic. Perhaps I am wrong. But being around long enough, I have found very few people who argue this with me who are ever really sincere.

Not that they don't exist. I have persuaded by means of proofs some people to understand the truth. But they are hungry for the truth and will lead the facts lead them where they will. The majority of people set up their own ideas and try to force the facts to fit their concepts. And when they don't, they must ignore the evidence and come up with more complicated and contradictory ideas.

a reply to: iSomeone

You write a lot of words for someone with so little to say.

Your logic is bad. Your premises are bad. Your conclusions are bad. You don't have an argument. End of story.

originally posted by: GetHyped
a reply to: iSomeone

You write a lot of words for someone with so little to say.

Your logic is bad. Your premises are bad. Your conclusions are bad. You don't have an argument. End of story.

I respect your right to troll and ignore all evidence given, without given a response. It is expected, and the norm. It also let's me know how sincere you really are. And that is all I really need to know.

At least you have a little more understanding of the absurdity of the fairy-tales you put your blind faith in.

Perhaps not today, but maybe one day, when and if your heart decides to reason on things logically, for whatever reason, you will remember this.