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Oklahoma Botched Execution - Clayton Lockett took 45 Minutes to Die

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posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 03:00 PM
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a reply to: anon72




Someone has to stand up for the victims.

That leaves us good people to defeat the evil ones.


Stand up for the people who were murdered by murdering the murderers?

What evil ones? They are evil because they murdered? So therefore we must murder the murderers...which by such logic would make us evil as well.

Circular reasoning.




posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 03:08 PM
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originally posted by: Kram09
a reply to: anon72




Someone has to stand up for the victims.

That leaves us good people to defeat the evil ones.


Stand up for the people who were murdered by murdering the murderers?

What evil ones? They are evil because they murdered? So therefore we must murder the murderers...which by such logic would make us evil as well.

Circular reasoning.


And you would have us do what with them? Pay for a murderer to live out their days with no care in the world and everything provided for them? It does not make us murderers....it does not put us on their level even....it is simply that they have no respect for innocent life while most do. I don't look at executing a murderer as the same type of act.



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 03:10 PM
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a reply to: EveStreet



So by your logic and the logic of those wanting to torture this sicko, you think we should strap bombs to some of our soldiers and start suicide bombing?

Why not, I mean that's what "they" do right?

And what about rapists.... should we get people to rape the rapists? That would teach them, right?


To want to torture and commit acts of violence on Anyone is pretty twisted but to do it a punishment, is quite barbaric.

Not only does an eye for an eye make the whole world blind, it would also seriously mess up a lot of people.
It can break a person and damage them psychologically to witness some of these violent acts and for people to propose that people torture, murder and "get even" with these criminals is just insane.

What would separate us? Why would we be better, because they deserved it, because they're evil?


The world has moved on.... MOST civilised nations have BANNED the death penalty.
Perhaps the US will leave the likes of Saudi Arabia and Iran behind and join the rest of the world.

Or perhaps The US will soon be chopping off hands too... well why should these vile thieves be getting away with it, right?
And maybe start stoning women who cheat? Come on, why not? It's just and the Bible says we should.
edit on 30/4/14 by blupblup because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 03:11 PM
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a reply to: Kram09

thinking you are somehow as bad as a person whom you kill so he stops killing is circular dark logic.

You are only defending an ideal and advocating that it is one we all share because of law, or moral debt, or otherwise obligating vows we have taken.

I never said I wouldnt kill someone who kills innocent people. Many here never made such a vow. The hypocrisy lies in trying to use a LAW which does condone legal killing of murderers to justify an immorality behind it...and to say that it is not what society wants.

Society made the laws which deal with state sanctioned executions. Who is one generation to say everyone before them was wrong? What right does this new generation have to uproot a principle that is a necessity as determined by the majority of citizens and declare it as unnecessary or even somehow immoral?

Logic would dictate that IDEALS are no reason to interfere with the function of a society and the very real lives of those who live in it.

Remove the death penalty and an imbalance is created. The death penalty was made so as to serve as an important source of balance for those who are gravely wronged beyond the normal services of the law for restitution or correction by an individual or individuals.

I would not feel satisfied with a multiple murderer of my loved ones living one moment beyond their detention and conviction. If they were to go on living I would either choose to live with INJUSTICE thanks to our legal system, or choose to take justice into my own hands so as to satisfy a very real natural need to punish that person for his taking of life.

Natural law is not subject to the whims of a single generation. It is true always and will be so always. That is why countless civilizations have embraced this concept of executing people for certain crimes. What you think your ideal has never been thought of or considered before? What arrogance.

It is not natural to deny natural law. It is in fact very dangerous to defy it.


edit on 4 30 2014 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 03:12 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

Thanks for explaining it. Not having the death penalty over here it is not an issue so the situation in the USA where one assumes that medical care is at the higest standard seemed strange.



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 03:13 PM
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a reply to: Vasa Croe




it is simply that they have no respect for innocent life while most do.


How about just simply having respect for life itself?




Pay for a murderer to live out their days with no care in the world and everything provided for them?


That generally seems to be the modus operandi with most other criminals in the United States these days, so I don't realistically see what kind of difference it would make.



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 03:19 PM
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a reply to: tadaman




It is not natural to deny natural law. It is in fact very dangerous to defy it.


So it's natural and therefore you're right...? Please explain why it's dangerous and the resultant consequences of defying it?



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 03:28 PM
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a reply to: Kram09

it is not that I am right that is important, though thank you. It is important that society as a whole demands this because it serves as a balance and as such is necessary for the function of society to live in peace.

It is dangerous because if the law does not serve the people they will stop looking to it to satisfy the needs it is intended to serve. When the vast majority feel that it is counterproductive to call police to apprehend a criminal because there are no real and JUST consequences for his actions, they inturn will simply take the law into their hands.

If you like lynch mobs then keep touting your ideal as paramount to civilization as we know it. See how long it takes for people to start burning others at the stake out of indignation for the lack of real consequences to their actions that satisfy their need for balance.

Try telling a bear to not kill you after hurting its cubs. See how well that goes. Try telling a father why he cant kill the person who killed his children....see how well that goes too.

Natural law will always trump any concoction made by even the brightest of a generation. The reason why is silly to even debate. It is at the very crux of the human condition.

You may think a monkey who dresses in a little suit is more civilized than a wild one who goes about naked. They would both be animals and still be subject to their nature. We are still animals bud. Better trained, more confused, but at the end of the day animals like your precious pets and those curious things we look at in zoos.

Unless you are proposing we consider your ideals AFTER you alter the human condition, then by all means. Until then get real.


edit on 4 30 2014 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 03:33 PM
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originally posted by: Kram09
Many of the responses in this thread have made me feel nauseous. Such unbridled hatred and vitriol. In fact some of you seem to be taking pleasure from it. You decry the actions of killers and shout loudly that their actions were wrong and heinous and then in the same breath claim that the only way to correct this wrong is to commit the same kind of vile acts.

Some of you seem to delight in thinking up even more lurid and grotesque tortures and forms of execution. With that kind of thought process you're no different from the people you condemn.

I used to enjoy coming on this site, but reading comments like the ones posted here makes me depressed. In fact it makes me sad to be of the same species.


Because what that animal did to that girl deserves nothing but hatred and vitriol. Many of us find any sympathy for such an animal just as disgusting as you say you feel.



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 03:37 PM
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originally posted by: Shiloh7
a reply to: NavyDoc

Thanks for explaining it. Not having the death penalty over here it is not an issue so the situation in the USA where one assumes that medical care is at the higest standard seemed strange.


It is a bit of an odd stance by the medical boards, that they will revoke the license of any professional who performs an execution even though it is perfectly legal by state law and only occurs after decades and multiple appeals, so we are left with amateurs doing it with the expected results. There is no difference with the performance of lethal injection from the induction of general anesthesia. However, if you don't have an anesthetist doing your anesthesia, but a technician, bad things will happen.



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 03:38 PM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

This guy kidnapped, raped a girl and buried her alive. This guy got taste of his own medicine. I don't feel sorry for this guy one bit. As they say, Karma's a bitch. I'm sure the parents who lost their daughter to this scum bag, and had to hear of her being buried alive, didn't shed a tear.



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 04:16 PM
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originally posted by: blupblup
a reply to: EveStreet



So by your logic and the logic of those wanting to torture this sicko, you think we should strap bombs to some of our soldiers and start suicide bombing?

Why not, I mean that's what "they" do right?

And what about rapists.... should we get people to rape the rapists? That would teach them, right?


To want to torture and commit acts of violence on Anyone is pretty twisted but to do it a punishment, is quite barbaric.

Not only does an eye for an eye make the whole world blind, it would also seriously mess up a lot of people.
It can break a person and damage them psychologically to witness some of these violent acts and for people to propose that people torture, murder and "get even" with these criminals is just insane.

What would separate us? Why would we be better, because they deserved it, because they're evil?


The world has moved on.... MOST civilised nations have BANNED the death penalty.
Perhaps the US will leave the likes of Saudi Arabia and Iran behind and join the rest of the world.

Or perhaps The US will soon be chopping off hands too... well why should these vile thieves be getting away with it, right?
And maybe start stoning women who cheat? Come on, why not? It's just and the Bible says we should.


Well said
Its utterly barbaric and serves no purpose.

There's also the family of that person.
I've said this on ats before but most choose to ignore it, but what about the children of the person who's condemned to die! Imagine telling a child their dad is going to be killed today! Surely people can see how utterly cruel that is!

I find all those who seek to end a persons life...a little worrying!



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 04:17 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

The cruel and unusual clause is also intended to make sure that the state does not engage in ruthless and unnecessary behaviour. What happened last night was ruthless and unnecessary.

No, the topic at hand is not the heinous crime the guy committed. If you want to start a thread talking about that, please by all means go ahead. It's time to put your vengeful emotions aside and deal with the fact that the state committed a serious, unjustified and unconstitutional crime. If you don't believe that the constitution needs to be followed all of the time no matter what the situation is, please be honest and state so.

I'm confident that I am right in this case. Do not give a lecture on principles and values when it is clear that you do not believe in the values of the Constitution of the United States.

I hope that you do not claim to be a follower of Jesus Christ.



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 04:28 PM
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a reply to: tadaman

You confuse the terms justice and revenge. The state has no business in seeking revenge. The state's job is to make sure justice is served, to the best of its ability. Revenge is of a more personal nature.

This has nothing to do with me "not being able to stomach" anything. This has to do with following the Constitution of the United States, which did not happen last night.

Your post is rife with ego and self importance. What happened last night has nothing to do with you personally so talk of you doing "what is unnecessary" is nonsense.



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 04:52 PM
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a reply to: kimar

We have a secular society, so Jesus Christ has naught to do with the subject. Please font tell me you are one of those who invokes Christ when convenient and then claim "seperation of church and state" when it suits you. We are not a theocracy.

The Constitution was not violated. He was not given a cruel and unusual punishment, there were no laws made to that effect. It was a systemic error--one that is being corrected. No one sentenced him to having his veins "blown."

In fact, it is people like youself, who want the state to keep doctors from carrying out the sentance, who created the questions who made the procedure more difficult than it need be. Of course the layman does not understand that, although it may have looked scary, it is very likely that he did mot suffer much as the versed creates an altered mental state. the reporting is quite sensationslized.

You speak of moral outrage, but i find sympathy for a rapist and murderer disgusting. i hate rapists, apparently ypu like them.



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 04:53 PM
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Considering the heinousness of his crime, I figure this is a little karma coming back to him. Is there a responsibility to ensure humaneness when the crime itself was so violent and despicable? I can't imagine the terror he and his buddy invoked in that girl before ending her life so cruelly.



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 05:19 PM
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originally posted by: Kram09
Many of the responses in this thread have made me feel nauseous. Such unbridled hatred and vitriol. In fact some of you seem to be taking pleasure from it. You decry the actions of killers and shout loudly that their actions were wrong and heinous and then in the same breath claim that the only way to correct this wrong is to commit the same kind of vile acts.

Some of you seem to delight in thinking up even more lurid and grotesque tortures and forms of execution. With that kind of thought process you're no different from the people you condemn.

I used to enjoy coming on this site, but reading comments like the ones posted here makes me depressed. In fact it makes me sad to be of the same species.


Oh please! We are higher thinking animals for the most part. Religion aside what makes you so arrogant to think we as human beings are above the cycle of life on planet earth???? We have the ability to love but we also have the ability to anally rape an 11 month old forcing her death. Those are the two ends of the spectrum of "humanity"
We can and should control our lives as a human civilization including keeping our progeny safe above all things. This includes killing those humans which are just plain evil or wired wrong. What else do you propose humans do? There are some human beings who can't and shouldn't be rehabilitated. We shouldn't waste one ounce of precious resources keeping them alive when those resources could be better utilized for human beings that deserve them. In a sense humans are judge, jury, and executioner of their own race and this world. That doesn't mean we don't take care and love those who deserve a chance at changing and rehabilitation. But I'm sorry in my world if you anally rape and murder an 11 month old baby you will be put down PERIOD! I don't know what fairy tale world you want to live in where evil like that is excusable and justifiable ?????



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 05:21 PM
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a reply to: kimar
You have not scratched the surface of the law while touting the importance of the constitution.

If our legal system does not deal with revenge then it has no business in caging people where a fine would suffice in replacing what damage may have been caused.

Reformation is not an option for many who are by their nature how they act out and all legal systems do understand this and account for this.


My posts may be rife with ego and self importance as you say but it is still not less valid or true. Besides, the same can be said about your indignation over it.

From tribal culture to our most advanced civilizations there is either banishment or punishment for an offence to the group.

In many instances death is the response required since atonement has always been part of all legal systems and is their primary charge in most instances...atonement so as to keep peace.

You assume my heart is what dictates to me what my position on this is.....sentiment like yours or others who use emotion and sentiment to dictate how their minds operate

I have studied this long and hard. There was only ever banishment or punishment.

Punishment IS revenge and the state has the authority to serve it so chaos does not ensue by the people seeking it themselves.

That is its charge. Banish those from our presence whom we feel are a threat, or punish them so there is balance to their actions.

Even Plato knew death was a necessary function of the law when it is demanded.


You know what you know sir/ ma'am, but you understand little.


edit on 4 30 2014 by tadaman because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 05:24 PM
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a reply to: NavyDoc

You were expressing your personal opinions, which is why I stated that I hope you're not a follower of Jesus.

The Constitution was indeed violated. The events that occurred could have been and in fact were predicted. Before his execution he asked for a stay (and it was initially granted by the state's Supreme Court) because the state would not say where the cocktail that was administered came from. There was concern that the manufacturer of the cocktail was not qualified to produce it. These concerns turned out to be justified. The cocktail failed, the state obviously knew that there was a risk that it would fail and it still administered the cocktail.

Doctors should not carry out the sentence because it would force them to violate the oath that they took when they become doctors. Again, this is about values, a concept that you seem to lack understanding in.

As for you last comment, I won't validate it with a response.



posted on Apr, 30 2014 @ 05:29 PM
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Executed killers never kill again.

Lets start with drone pilots.

High moral ground?

Bah…
edit on 30-4-2014 by intrptr because: changed



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