Oklahoma Botched Execution - Clayton Lockett took 45 Minutes to Die

originally posted by: Acidx
a reply to: FlyersFan
The big problem that I have with this is that the high court ruled that he had no right to know what drug was going to be used to kill him. He said that he would not know if it was a cruel and unusual punishment if he did not know the punishment, true. They violated this mans rights and sourced the drug used to kill him from an overseas lab as no pharma company in the U.S. will make the # anymore.
Also, lets not make this issue about his crime. This is about his punishment, which was unjust. The drug probably was not manufactured properly thus did not work properly. The judge who ruled this human beings right's did not matter because he was an inmate, should be fired for violating his oath.

What?!?!?!?! The entire issue IS about his crime, which is why that piece of human filth was strapped to that table in the first place.

a reply to: FlyersFan

I think botched is a matter of opinion, he died from execution just a little slower. I doubt the family of the victim complained one bit. I am very conflicted on execution I think they get off too easy if you execute. I would rather have them sit in a cell for life to think, reflect, realise what they lost. Feed them #ty food, experience the violence of incarceration from being with people just like them. Whatever we do, it shouldn't be a easy life long stay.

a reply to: beezzer

I agree. One clean shot to the head or heart and it's all over.

a reply to: FlyersFan


How many minutes did the rape he committed last? Was the victim unconscious? As far as I am concerned, he did not suffer enough.
Firepiston

originally posted by: kimar
ATS is filled with outright hypocrisy more and more these days. The United States Constitution explicitly forbids cruel and unusual punishment by the state. The events that unfolded last night were obviously cruel and unusual. But the vast majority of the posters on this thread, who elsewhere love to proclaim their love of the Constitution, are ok with what happened.

Just admit it: you guys just want revenge and have a sick lust for blood. You stand by the constitution only when it is convenient, not because of any principles and values.

Yes, what the guy did was twisted and horrible. But that is not the issue at hand.

This world is falling apart because most people don't have any actual values, it's all talk and no show.

The cruel and unusual punishment clause was intended to prevent things like chopping off a hand for stealing a loaf of bread, not keeping the punishment from actually fitting the crime. Death penalty was widely used by the FF and the new nation from the get go.

What the guy did was evil and twisted and THAT is the prime issue at hand and leftists try to push the most salient point to the side to make the evil person a sympathetic character and good people should not let that happen.

You are wrong. The principles and values of justice demand that the crime be punished and the criminal not be made out as an object of sympathy--that is an insult to the victims. I'm sorry, but true justice is often not Bambi and flowers all of the time.

I hope some of you here never have the misfortune of one of your kids making a mistake in life that leads them to a death sentence...

what is wrong with you people.

a reply to: kimar

Just admit it: you guys just want revenge and have a sick lust for blood.

your damn skippy. REVENGE. That is the purpose of this sort of punishment. We COULD just banish them and let them live out their lives on an island somewhere. What that wouldnt be JUST for the victims?

Then it is about punishment.

And as far as the constitution, it is not written in stone. Its paper and ink and done so that way so it can be changed and adapted to the needs of the people, as it is that those needs change over time.

Its a bit hypocritical to tout the validity of the law, then spit on the spirit of the law. THAT is the problem with our system of law and justice today. The spirit has been excised and replaced with a placating, immoral, and absurd interpretation by the whims of a society not at all at peace with itself.

I am not so arrogant so as to assume that instinct is inferior to any concoction that people can come up with at their whim so as to feel "more civilized" in a world of animals and mortality.

I am an animal. I have found my peace with that and I am probably more civilized because of it than all the broken animals running around in suits and ties living a disfunction. Mental and spiritual diarrhea is all that is being perpetuated by subjecting justice to supposed morality.

Are these moral people we are dealing with? No. Then they dont deserve the consideration of moral men.

That is a courtesy that need not be extended to those who have renounced it for themselves unto others.

And like I said: People like you need not be bothered with it. You can not stomach it and that is understandable. Those of us who would become a worse devil than them should be charged with the implementation of true justice.

When no one wants to get their hands dirty dumping the bucket of excrement our world produces we all end up filthy and knee deep in our own crap.

You stay nice and clean. We wont judge you for it, but dont you judge us for being willing to do whats necessary either.

It is about PUNISHMENT. Let them be punished.

EDIT TO ADD:
YOU think its a twisted blood lust. (thats your judgement) I would say that your own argument is twisted and egocentric and as such is unnatural.

Arent you the "more civilized" one in the bunch...huh?

I see a broken animal is all.

a reply to: Vasa Croe

That is done in Islam states and is unbelieveable. No on all levels period.

Also, do not ever support capital punishment, for its merely retaliation which is a sin, and a crime.

originally posted by: FirePiston
a reply to: FlyersFan


How many minutes did the rape he committed last? Was the victim unconscious? As far as I am concerned, he did not suffer enough.
Firepiston

He didn't suffer enough? His life was being ended. The State simply had to do that as simply and quickly as possible. The level of suffering doesn't enter into it. How the hell are you going to quantify it? Why the hell would you want to quantify it? The State has a job to do. It does not - and should never - vary the level of pain and suffering that executed prisoners feel based on subjective 'analysis' by people like us.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
I hope some of you here never have the misfortune of one of your kids making a mistake in life that leads them to a death sentence... what is wrong with you people.

Well, to be fair ... Clayton Lockett was 38 at death and the murder took place in 1999 ... making him 24 years old when he did those evil things. That's not a 'kid'. He was convicted of rape, kidnapping, robbery and murder. (if my information is correct)

a reply to: Soloprotocol

If my kid gets to be a sadistic killer with no regard for the life of others the only thing i will regret about he facing his consequences is my failure to educate him

a reply to: tadaman

I hope that I never serve on a jury with you, because we are obviously going to clash heads - probably literally!

originally posted by: FlyersFan

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
I hope some of you here never have the misfortune of one of your kids making a mistake in life that leads them to a death sentence... what is wrong with you people.

Well, to be fair ... Clayton Lockett was 38 at death and the murder took place in 1999 ... making him 24 years old when he did those evil things. That's not a 'kid'. He was convicted of rape, kidnapping, robbery and murder. (if my information is correct)

My son is 22...22-42 he's still my Kid.

originally posted by: Indigent
a reply to: Soloprotocol

If my kid gets to be a sadistic killer with no regard for the life of others the only thing i will regret about he facing his consequences is my failure to educate him

Then i worry for you as a human being.....

originally posted by: Unity_99
That is done in Islam states and is unbelieveable.

That's part of why I"m usually against the death penalty.
1 - There are a lot of people in jail who are innocent.
2 - Look at what people are put to death for in Islamic countries .. it's insane.

I understand revenge and the basic human drive to scratch that itch. It's natural. And the death penalty may indeed be justice against those who committed horrid crimes. But we don't all have the same idea of what is horrid. And there are innocent people in jail. So the death penalty makes me a bit nervous.

a reply to: Soloprotocol

And I hope that none of these sick monsters ever harm your child(ren). Would it change the way you feel?

Just think about it...

A woman hit my child with her car and almost killed him. And it was an accident. And I still wanted her head on a pike on my front lawn. Maybe feeling that way is not right, but it was still the way I felt. After a year and a half, I no longer want her head, but I still would like to see some sort of punishment....but it will never happen.

Not trying to be rude - just pointing out how the victims and their families may feel and showing their side of the story.

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
My son is 22...22-42 he's still my Kid.

Sure. He'll always be your kid. My 18 year old daughter will always be my kid. But they aren't kids when it comes to reasoning that it is wrong to kidnap, rob, rape and murder another human being. Ya' know?

originally posted by: Soloprotocol
I hope some of you here never have the misfortune of one of your kids making a mistake in life that leads them to a death sentence...

what is wrong with you people.

Raping several women, shooting one, and burying her alive is not a "mistake."

Jesus Christ. What is wrong with someone who marginalizes something horrific by calling it a mistake. I pray that no child of yours is a victim of such a "mistake."

originally posted by: DustbowlDebutante
a reply to: Soloprotocol

And I hope that none of these sick monsters ever harm your child(ren). Would it change the way you feel?

Just think about it...

taking a life of another human being is the worst crime imaginable, but killing again will never bring that person back and it to think otherwise makes you as sick as the individual who committed the crime in the first place.

a reply to: kaylaluv

Oh, I forgot beheading....yes, that is an option. I'm also good with it if the criminal would like to be drawn and quartered.

And I'm also an advocate for public shaming for lesser crimes...