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E=MC^4^2...A thought experiment regarding Energy and the Speed of Light.

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posted on May, 4 2014 @ 06:01 AM
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originally posted by: WeAre0ne
Long ago, it was discovered that all matter is simply made of light.



The evidence is all over the place.


By an ancient extremely advanced technology that there is no evidence existed and they left nothing behind? Gotcha. So you got nothing and are making stuff up, which is why you can't source anything. Or do you still want to stick to you can't tell me because the knowledge can't be made public .. even though you are making it publicly known here ....




posted on May, 4 2014 @ 06:25 AM
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originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
By an ancient extremely advanced technology that there is no evidence existed and they left nothing behind? Gotcha.


How do you know there is no evidence, and nothing was left behind? Do you know everything? Do you have access to everything? Certainly, not.

All I have to say is three words: Flower of Life.


originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
So you got nothing and are making stuff up, which is why you can't source anything. Or do you still want to stick to you can't tell me because the knowledge can't be made public .. even though you are making it publicly known here ....


I haven't made anything up. Everything I describe can be discovered by your self, if you are smart enough. The true source is nature itself. I have a feeling though that if it is not in a book, you won't learn about it. You don't get your hands dirty.

I never said it can't be made public... I said I can't provide an alternative source, because none of it is publicly available. Only what I make available is available, against the wishes of a few. It should not exist in public, but sometimes I get careless. I have so much faith in your doubt, and flawed base theories, I don't even worry about being believed. Which is a funny thing.

If you want a semi source, try reading "The Universal One" by Walter Russel.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 07:08 AM
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a reply to: WeAre0ne

What do you propose is accelerating it so that it is moving in a circular path of that size? A black hole perhaps.
edit on 4-5-2014 by Bedlam because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 08:33 AM
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originally posted by: WeAre0ne
a reply to: bastion

Funny people need a source, and without a source they wont believe anything. As if they don't understand that sometimes there is only one source, and you are speaking to it.

I wonder if when Einstein said "E=mc^2" people asked, "can you provide a source?". lol

You don't know reality. Not even the beginning of it.

As Tesla states...

"Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality."


I have a degree in Maths and Physics, your equation isn't even in the correct form and you can't even add indices so the idea you generated the equation, or the equation works is laughable. Especially when dark matter and dark energy have absolutely nothing to do with E=mc^2.

Every 14 year old knows p = hf/c - it's one of the most basic and famous equations used in school physics and anyone with basic mathematical knowledge can derive it.

Einstein derived his equation in his papers, so yes there's a source and experiments verify it to be true. That's how science works. You don't just pluck random numbers out of thin air and pretend they mean something.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 09:51 AM
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originally posted by: Bedlam
a reply to: WeAre0ne

What do you propose is accelerating it so that it is moving in a circular path of that size? A black hole perhaps.
In this fantasy a black hole can't even exist because it's based on light not going faster than c which WeAre0ne says it can. If Walter Russel[sic] is the source, it's probably something like "consciousness".


Russell believed that humankind was on the brink of making another key, evolutionary leap in consciousness.
In Russia, the universe doesn't create you, you create the universe.



originally posted by: bastion
You don't just pluck random numbers out of thin air and pretend they mean something.
Maybe you and I don't, but Walter Russell even made up his own periodic table which had at least 20 things in front of hydrogen.


Not only did he pretend that they meant something but he actually had some followers who completely lacked critical thinking skills who believed him.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 09:52 AM
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Can you explain how this eq
teaches me "Were photons get
their momentum"....

Sorry forgot the eq:
p = hf/c
edit on 2014/5/4 by Miccey because: (no reason given)


Edit 2:
See i can tell you how a bike gets its momentum...

Can SOMEONE do the same for photons...
edit on 2014/5/4 by Miccey because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 10:01 AM
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a reply to: Miccey
I doubt there's any intuitive explanation like with the bike, if that's what you're looking for.

Quantum mechanics is not based on intuition, it's based on observation, and creating a model to match observation.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 10:39 AM
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Arbitrageur - Never heard of that guy before, his 'theories' are pretty disturbing to say the least. Though the whole 'quantum consciousness/miraculous evolutionary leap' goes hand in hand with nutters trying to peddle their nonsense as if there's substance behind it.


originally posted by: Miccey
Can you explain how this eq
teaches me "Were photons get
their momentum"....

Sorry forgot the eq:
p = hf/c

Edit 2:
See i can tell you how a bike gets its momentum...

Can SOMEONE do the same for photons...


It's the equation of how a photons mass changes dependent on it's frequency/velocity.

Not without teaching you a lot of complex calculus, zero invariant mass and relativistic mass. There's no simple answer or shortcut I'm afraid, you have to learn to subject. The subatomic world bears no resemblance to human experience so analogies are more of cheat than knowledge.
edit on 4-5-2014 by bastion because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 11:05 AM
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yeah and with my doctorate in experimental particle physics... there is no amount of calculous in the standard model, complex or otherwise that gives photons mass...


Superconductors give an interesting effective mass like behaviour, but it isnt to say they actually have mass, all experimental data sets the limit at less than 10^-18 eV depending on the experiment.



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 11:26 AM
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originally posted by: bastion
Arbitrageur - Never heard of that guy before, his 'theories' are pretty disturbing to say the least. Though the whole 'quantum consciousness/miraculous evolutionary leap' goes hand in hand with nutters trying to peddle their nonsense as if there's substance behind it.
Yes it's disturbing that some people thing made-up stuff is a substitute for or even preferable to science.


It's the equation of how a photons mass changes dependent on it's frequency/velocity.
He said it was momentum so I presume that's what you meant.

a reply to: ErosA433
Unfortunately some teachers teach "relativistic mass" as a concept, even though Einstein said not to do that.
edit on 4-5-2014 by Arbitrageur because: clarification



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 11:35 AM
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a reply to: Arbitrageur

Yeah, it really only becomes useful when u are talking high energy gammas, though this is not really a correct way to think of it, because the photon remains travelling at C rather than slower. As you said.

And gamma conversion is only possible for certain particles when over there rest mass energy, and even then its none trivial

Energy and mass are interchangeable, but it isn't like you can spontaneously make a gamma and have it convert to something. more things are happening



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 12:05 PM
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originally posted by: ErosA433
a reply to: spy66

Photons are wave packets, they do not form a continuos wave like ripple from point a to point b. Photons have both wavelike and particle like properties


If i am not wrong, wavepacets are particles With the same Properties as EMR. They have the same wavelength symetry.

There are a lot of perticles that give of light "EMR"If they are radiated by heat or light. This si actually what wave-pactes are. If i am not mistaken.

Some particles can glow in the dark. But the light is still a wavelength.
edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)

edit on 27.06.08 by spy66 because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 12:47 PM
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originally posted by: ErosA433
a reply to: Arbitrageur

Yeah, it really only becomes useful when u are talking high energy gammas, though this is not really a correct way to think of it, because the photon remains traveling at C rather than slower. As you said.

And gamma conversion is only possible for certain particles when over there rest mass energy, and even then its none trivial


Ahh cheers, this is where I've been going wrong for far too long, can you recommend any papers or textbooks on the supbject (as I was under the impression miniscule mass occurred/coincided with very high energy)



posted on May, 4 2014 @ 05:47 PM
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originally posted by: WeAre0ne

As Tesla states...

"Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality."


Tesla was wrong. He just lost ability to understand theoretically where physics advanced after 1900, the level of cognitive complexity increased very substantially, and Tesla didn't understand the difficulty of getting experimetnally testable results out of quantum mechanics: you do need many many computations to do simple things.

He was a visual intuitive scientist which worked well with classical electromagnetism but that eventually runs out of steam.

And in truth, relativity and quantum mechanics were based very firmly upon one extraordinary experiment after another.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 01:08 PM
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originally posted by: bastion
I have a degree in Maths and Physics, your equation isn't even in the correct form and you can't even add indices so the idea you generated the equation, or the equation works is laughable. Especially when dark matter and dark energy have absolutely nothing to do with E=mc^2.

Every 14 year old knows p = hf/c - it's one of the most basic and famous equations used in school physics and anyone with basic mathematical knowledge can derive it.

Einstein derived his equation in his papers, so yes there's a source and experiments verify it to be true. That's how science works. You don't just pluck random numbers out of thin air and pretend they mean something.


You have a degree in Math and Physics, yet you don't even know how to read. You are obviously mistaking me for the OP. I didn't even post any equations.

Wow, I find it scary that some here don't know how to read.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 01:13 PM
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a reply to: Arbitrageur

Walter is not the source. And that is NOT Walters periodic table.

Wow, another failure at reading.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 01:15 PM
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a reply to: bastion

It's not surprising you have never heard of Walter Russell. He only founded the University of Science and Philosophy and was a professor there.
edit on 5-5-2014 by WeAre0ne because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 01:43 PM
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originally posted by: WeAre0ne
a reply to: bastion

It's not surprising you have never heard of Walter Russell. He only founded the University of Science and Philosophy and was a professor there.


I can honestly say I've never heard of that place in my life either. I'm used to working with prestigious ones like Harvaard and Stanford in our international collaborations.

Is it even a University - the website here is load of unfounded gibberish that has nothing to do with science: www.philosophy.org... It's more new age nonsense.



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: Miccey

Isn't it funny how all these know-it-all mathematicians and scientists on this topic can't explain to you how photons get their momentum? They can recite equations they were given from a book, but can't do more than that. They don't seem to understand that mathematics can only describe, not explain.

They can't tell you, for example, that when an atom is excited (say by a collision of some sort) it causes electrons in that atom to jump to higher energy levels, but only temporarily, and the electrons absorb energy/photons. The electrons then quickly fall back to their original energy level, releasing the extra energy/photons. That is called "spontaneous emission".

en.wikipedia.org...

Since electrons are made of light, they can absorb extra light, and emit extra light.

Some would argue that when electrons are orbiting the nucleus of an atom at high speeds, they can eject photons out much like kids getting ejected off of a high speed merry-go-round.

In other words, a photon can get its momentum from an electron.

Others would argue that the electromagnetic nature of the electron and the electromagnetic nature of the photon plays an important role. When the electron magnet gets excited into a higher energy state, it becomes a stronger magnet, and it attracts a photon magnet. When the electron drops back to the original energy state, it becomes a weaker magnet, and the photon magnet disconnects at high speeds, and is ejected outward.




edit on 5-5-2014 by WeAre0ne because: (no reason given)

edit on 5-5-2014 by WeAre0ne because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 5 2014 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: bastion
Yes it's total gibberish, and No, it's not accredited according to quackwatch which has it listed under the category:

"Schools Not Accredited by Recognized Accrediting Agency"


...
Universal University of Holistic Spirituality
University of Berkley
University of Health Science
University of Integrative Health Sciences (AIHS)
University of Science and Philosophy
University of the Healing Arts
Westbrook University (Aztec, Arizona)
Yamuni Institute of Healing Arts




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