ATS has been infiltrated and infested with western establishment-paid shills...?

a reply to: tothetenthpower

"Are there some people who are paid to troll internet boards to push an agenda? There sure are.

Are they interested in the musing of ATS, enough that some actual 'operation' has been formed around it.

I highly doubt that."

ATS is a honey pot for these "shills". Discrediting the truth movement has been around for over a decade (on online forums).

"Do they stay long?

No, because our community is actually REALLY good at rooting out trolls and trouble makers. 95% of ALL staff actions are the result of member alerts and information gathered from those alerts."


I highly doubt that. There are plenty of members here that have infiltrated this site over the years. One of the best ways to discredit the truth movement is by making yourself respectable and most importantly, influential among the members. There have been also plenty of people that have been banned on ATS for calling these people out.

"We can readily imagine a series of possible responses. (1) Government might ban conspiracy theorizing. (2) Government might impose some kind of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories. (3) Government might itself engage in counterspeech, marshaling arguments to discredit conspiracy theories. (4) Government might formally hire credible private parties to engage in counterspeech. (5) Government might engage in informal communication with such parties, encouraging them to help." However, the authors advocate that each "instrument has a distinctive set of potential effects, or costs and benefits, and each will have a place under imaginable conditions. However, our main policy idea is that government should engage in cognitive infiltration of the groups that produce conspiracy theories, which involves a mix of (3), (4) and (5)."

That's from the book "Conspiracy Theories" written by Adrian Vermeule and go authored by Cass Sunstein.

The text speaks for itself.

I like ATS. But to say that this site hasnt been inflitrated or these people havent been dealt with is a contradiction.

For one thing, I don't think these people should be banned. Who's to say who's "trolling" or who is a shill?

Free speech is one of the most important thing free people have. Let's keep it that way by having civil discussions and not calling other people "shills", instead (because that helps them) we should have civil discussions over the actual matters themselves instead of simply calling someone a shill or a troll simply because they have a different stance on something.

Anyway, one of the best ways you can identify these "shills" is by a list. (The shills i'm talking about are not people who simply have a different opinion then you do)

Here it is.

25 Rules of Disinformation

My personal favorite:

Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent’s argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

a reply to: spooky24

Obviously you missed the point of my post entirely.

his is funny stuff. So if you spend enough dead time searching google you will find the truth?

No, I would suggest people use the internet and read books, considering researching isn't just 'googling' stuff.

So, people who 'tow the party line' don't sit around and search google 24/7?

If people did indeed research the things they are presented in the MSM they would quickly realize all is not what it seems. To argue otherwise is foolish.

By convincing them to spend countless hours searching google?

Again, you miss the point entirely.

~Tenth

I wasn't intending to call anyone out for being a shill by disagreeing with me. There are a lot of people that do fit these characteristics that aren't. Notice I haven't done that once to anyone in here disagreeing with me? (Gasp!)
I do find it a bit hilarious not a single one of those members that I had in mind has bothered to drop in.

a reply to: Davian

Hell man call them out if you feel like that, making a general post some don't get what you are saying, I mean I figured you were talking about someone or a bunch of members, as you can see I am not a power poster or replier a member since actually before 2007 I just created different account, just had time recently to be jumping in here more often, I can't imagine being able to post as much as some people that I see have been a member even a year with like 10,000 posts, nothing on them but they must do this full time, and again you see my low posts, I get tired just from a few posts a week, that's quite enough for me, I can be amused just reading the forums.

The amount of threads concerned with shills is weird to me. It's the internet, if it's not shills it's trolls, What difference does it make? The internet is full of liars and misinformation. I tend to assume everyone is full of # until they prove otherwise.

This is a conspiracy site, everyone here should be capable of independent research. A shill spreading misinformation is only a problem if you can't think for yourself.

I'll take on the shills as I do anyone else I disagree with. It's not a problem.

a reply to: Davian

Another rant from someone who can't handle those who hold different views that are not made-up by hacks with little going on in their lives.

ATS has always been a place for people from every background and even those who believe the MSM like its the word of god. There are some who do not fear their government and some who like their political representatives.

Just because they defend those who were VOTED into power doesn't make them any less valued than people like you.

Grow up and learn to except all opinions, take what you want and disregard the rest.

The word "honeypot" is alrdy mentioned and that's exactly what ATS is.Conspiracy sites function like a spring and from sites like this everything flows into the public domain.It would be infact prtty dumb if "they" didn't grab the bull by the horn(balls) and discredit(at) the source.It's simply the best way of trying to manipulate mass behaviour/opinion and do some damage control....psychology101

OP, this is a valid concern and yes I do agree that it's often taken care of by mods accordingly(replying to mods discussion about it) as well as members seeing it for what it is. Last one I seen delt with was the obviously administration supporter with multiple handles.

Okay, so if you think it's only about "This is only people calling people shills because they disagree", then how do you explain a lot of what is going on? When it's not so much disagreement but it boarders on agenda with ad hominem attacks. As it seems like there's a big push now calling out "Anti Americans", never mind being critical of your country(Bundy vs BLM) someone "passionate from elsewhere" has a right to call you out now. If you see that there's fowl play many sides of the Ukraine vs Russia topic, you are obviously a SHILL. You must only support the US, UN and be anti Putin.

originally posted by: RedmoonMWC
a reply to: Davian

"Shills" paid or not, let them come.
It is an opportunity to sharpen our debating skills.

I'd say that is partially true but there are more factors to look at. Well, a study that has been shared quite a few times on ATS claims that it makes the believers stronger when questioned/ argued with too much by skeptical views. But it can also be a distraction, a division-which it is now dividing members(who are not really the ones in suspect here)- and causes many to be weary of posting.

originally posted by: GeminiSky

originally posted by: TWILITE22

originally posted by: Painterz
I don't think so, no. This whole concept of shills I find horrible, because now it means whenever anybody posts something in disagreement on a thread on ATS, a lot of folks just cry 'SHILL!' and thus debate is silenced forever and nobody has to listen to anybody who disagrees with them.


Anyway. There's what, 120,000 visitors to ATS every day. Which is a lot for a website admittedly.

But 120k people? Drop in the ocean. Why would government agencies spend a lot of resources chasing after the maybe 20-30k people who view a thread?

They'll be spending their money on mainstream media. I really don't think they care what those of us here at the fringes think. We're a tiny tiny minority.

There is a big difference in disagreeing and attacking it's people that go into a thread with no interest in the subject trash it,start personally attacking, goes off topic, until it's completely derailed and the thread fades away. Just look into the archives where old threads used to run a respectable length.

Disagreeing with intelligent responses keep the thread going and adds perspective to the discussions.

this 200%. Totally agree

I know there are many on ATS especially some of the older members that feel the way I do. Seldom is there a conspiracy thread that's worth clicking on anymore which is sad.

originally posted by: tothetenthpower
a reply to: Davian

Yeah, like I said, it does happen, does it happen here?

Yes, probably.

Do they stay long?

No, because our community is actually REALLY good at rooting out trolls and trouble makers. 95% of ALL staff actions are the result of member alerts and information gathered from those alerts.

So you guys, do a better job at managing those kinds of problems that we the staff, ever could.

I just think that dedicated groups of people would rather troll message boards that average people are reading, like Reddit or Tumblr or any of the other dozen, far more popular and far more mainstream sources than ATS.

~Tenth

So true thank God to our senior members with high intelligence and Mods to root out the vermin here on ATS!

originally posted by: hellobruce
A common and well know tactic of paid shills is to start threads and accuse others of being paid shills, this is done to cover up their own shilling....

The western shills that the OP refers to have in fact done this, or rather hijack threads by posting accusations. Some of the obvious shills have done this to me. I've been called a "Russian disinformation agent" by a few members, who've tried to "prove" it with very weak arguments. Usually this happens when I leave the argument in one thread and they appear on another thread to criticize who I am.

And the funny part is that I'm as western as it gets. What's even worse is that my opinions and analyses are based off of formal education in geopolitical analysis, so it seems that the overall goal of the shills is to discredit educated opinions while fostering uneducated opinions, ie opinions sold to the general population via mainstream media. Before I knew it, education became communism/terrorism.

originally posted by: olaru12
I remember during the BP oil spill how people came out of the wood work with new accounts, to defend BP then disappeared.

During Sandy Hook there were obvious shills pushing the official story. Same with Boston bombing.

Apparently those discussions are now off limits and censored even though relevant information is still coming out.

I don't know what's going on but there is a definite attempt to control and limit certain subjects.

i found this alot with sandy hook it drove me mad!

a reply to: Revelations29

I've posted the cryptome link twice already in this thread. Watch for thread sliding now.

In one of the prison threads I used the S-word. There are shills(sort of) in that thread, those being people who are employed by the prison industry, lawyers, and the occasional LEO. They were defending their line of work and I was simply posting what I have observed within the US legal system. Not paid shills but people with a complete different views than me about that topic.

It is almost like shill is the new word for troll.

S&F

You are breath of fresh air that I thoroughly enjoyed by reading your fantastic use of words.

God bless.

yeh i was waiting on the usual suspects showing up to dismiss this

originally posted by: Vovin

originally posted by: hellobruce
A common and well know tactic of paid shills is to start threads and accuse others of being paid shills, this is done to cover up their own shilling....

The western shills that the OP refers to have in fact done this, or rather hijack threads by posting accusations. Some of the obvious shills have done this to me. I've been called a "Russian disinformation agent" by a few members, who've tried to "prove" it with very weak arguments. Usually this happens when I leave the argument in one thread and they appear on another thread to criticize who I am.

And the funny part is that I'm as western as it gets. What's even worse is that my opinions and analyses are based off of formal education in geopolitical analysis, so it seems that the overall goal of the shills is to discredit educated opinions while fostering uneducated opinions, ie opinions sold to the general population via mainstream media. Before I knew it, education became communism/terrorism.

i have been called allsorts , like sick in relation to wanting proof from the sandy hook thing and with police brutality before as well

originally posted by: leopardpimps
yeh i was waiting on the usual suspects showing up to dismiss this

The one thread thats all about them and they are nowhere to be found? Shame...

GS

a reply to: GeminiSky

yeh i was dying for them to , i have a mental list just read through the rest of this , this evening and i was a bit disapointed but they can't let this thread have substance now ! sadly for them alot of people are in agreence with this anyway so we don't need their input to prove it!

originally posted by: leopardpimps
yeh i was waiting on the usual suspects showing up to dismiss this

If only I could get paid to dismiss it, I would. But folks keep questioning the CIA budget, and well, DynCorp gets it's money from that, and so on and so on down the subsidiary chain, until you reach Shill-Branch A3-19... And then, in a little cubicle sits your humble narrator. Those bastards don't pay me enough to keep me from drinking on the job. And... wait... Uh... Vote Nixon? Wait, what year is it again?