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originally posted by: Vovin
originally posted by: DJW001
originally posted by: Vovin
originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Vovin
And really, how long can can people continue to blame Russia for what's going on in Ukraine?
So long as the Russians keep trying to fly their flag over Ukrainian territory, obviously. If you want to defend Russian actions, fine. That is political opinion. But denying them? That is either delusional or a deliberate attempt to mislead. Can you understand why the majority of ATS members assume that most of the new members defending the Russian invasion of Ukraine are paid Russian "cyber-warriors?"
What majority of ATS members do you speak of? All I see is about 5 or so accounts that post clear-cut pro-west propaganda, misinformation, and tend to follow other members around who don't adhere to their opinions. Some of these accounts have been doing it for years. But hey, my account says I only joined a few months ago so what would I really know about ATS
But hey, keep believing in those "Russian cyber-warriors"... Funny how Americans never boast about some apparently invincible faction of their military when they are probably in it (USA Cybercommand vs "Russian cyber-warriors").
You really should pay attention to what others here say to you, rather than try to shout them down or make accusations against them by innuendo. What I said was: it is perfectly okay to defend Russia's actions, but it does not make sense to deny them. That isn't even good propaganda because it undermines your credibility. When the United States launched its own illegal invasion of Iraq and found new ways to violate the spirit of the Geneva Convention, no-one was stupid enough to come on here and say: "Invasion? What invasion?" the way some of the newer members here are doing.
You do not seem to understand that contrary to what you may think, the majority of posters here are not anti-American. They are anti-Government! Most of them hate Russia's government just as much as they hate America's, and the violent protesters on the Maidan are acting out one of their favorite fantasies: Armed rebellion.
It's people on your side of the argument that are screaming about Russian soldiers invading Ukraine, and anyone who says otherwise here are "Russian disinformation agents". Not too sure what to make of being called a "Russian disinformation agent", especially since that would be treason to my country and it's definitely not my culture, but my sources that I follow from east Ukraine clearly state that they are Ukrainian and would only join Russia if they needed the help in fighting the fascists.
Maybe if you've read my posts you would see where I've stated that this is a fight against fascism inside Ukraine- not unlike the Spanish Civil War.
originally posted by: DJW001
originally posted by: Vovin
originally posted by: DJW001
originally posted by: Vovin
originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Vovin
And really, how long can can people continue to blame Russia for what's going on in Ukraine?
So long as the Russians keep trying to fly their flag over Ukrainian territory, obviously. If you want to defend Russian actions, fine. That is political opinion. But denying them? That is either delusional or a deliberate attempt to mislead. Can you understand why the majority of ATS members assume that most of the new members defending the Russian invasion of Ukraine are paid Russian "cyber-warriors?"
What majority of ATS members do you speak of? All I see is about 5 or so accounts that post clear-cut pro-west propaganda, misinformation, and tend to follow other members around who don't adhere to their opinions. Some of these accounts have been doing it for years. But hey, my account says I only joined a few months ago so what would I really know about ATS
But hey, keep believing in those "Russian cyber-warriors"... Funny how Americans never boast about some apparently invincible faction of their military when they are probably in it (USA Cybercommand vs "Russian cyber-warriors").
You really should pay attention to what others here say to you, rather than try to shout them down or make accusations against them by innuendo. What I said was: it is perfectly okay to defend Russia's actions, but it does not make sense to deny them. That isn't even good propaganda because it undermines your credibility. When the United States launched its own illegal invasion of Iraq and found new ways to violate the spirit of the Geneva Convention, no-one was stupid enough to come on here and say: "Invasion? What invasion?" the way some of the newer members here are doing.
You do not seem to understand that contrary to what you may think, the majority of posters here are not anti-American. They are anti-Government! Most of them hate Russia's government just as much as they hate America's, and the violent protesters on the Maidan are acting out one of their favorite fantasies: Armed rebellion.
It's people on your side of the argument that are screaming about Russian soldiers invading Ukraine, and anyone who says otherwise here are "Russian disinformation agents". Not too sure what to make of being called a "Russian disinformation agent", especially since that would be treason to my country and it's definitely not my culture, but my sources that I follow from east Ukraine clearly state that they are Ukrainian and would only join Russia if they needed the help in fighting the fascists.
Maybe if you've read my posts you would see where I've stated that this is a fight against fascism inside Ukraine- not unlike the Spanish Civil War.
What do you mean by "my side?" When did I accuse you of being a "Russian disinformation agent?" What country do you owe allegiance to that considers voicing an opinion to be treason? What sort of culture allows you to accuse others while hiding behind anonymity? Why do you blindly believe the Russian propaganda that paints all resistance to Putin's skinhead punks "fascists?"
The undeniable fact is that Russian soldiers have attacked Ukrainian assets. This cannot be denied. Russia has invaded and committed acts of war against Ukraine. You may mistakenly believe that Putin's opponents are fascists. You would be wrong, but you are entitled to that opinion. What you cannot deny is that Russia has been making war against Ukraine, and has seized Ukrainian land. This land grab in Crimea had nothing to do with "Western interference," and everything to do with Putin's hubris.
originally posted by: Vovin
originally posted by: DJW001
originally posted by: Vovin
originally posted by: DJW001
originally posted by: Vovin
originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Vovin
And really, how long can can people continue to blame Russia for what's going on in Ukraine?
So long as the Russians keep trying to fly their flag over Ukrainian territory, obviously. If you want to defend Russian actions, fine. That is political opinion. But denying them? That is either delusional or a deliberate attempt to mislead. Can you understand why the majority of ATS members assume that most of the new members defending the Russian invasion of Ukraine are paid Russian "cyber-warriors?"
What majority of ATS members do you speak of? All I see is about 5 or so accounts that post clear-cut pro-west propaganda, misinformation, and tend to follow other members around who don't adhere to their opinions. Some of these accounts have been doing it for years. But hey, my account says I only joined a few months ago so what would I really know about ATS
But hey, keep believing in those "Russian cyber-warriors"... Funny how Americans never boast about some apparently invincible faction of their military when they are probably in it (USA Cybercommand vs "Russian cyber-warriors").
You really should pay attention to what others here say to you, rather than try to shout them down or make accusations against them by innuendo. What I said was: it is perfectly okay to defend Russia's actions, but it does not make sense to deny them. That isn't even good propaganda because it undermines your credibility. When the United States launched its own illegal invasion of Iraq and found new ways to violate the spirit of the Geneva Convention, no-one was stupid enough to come on here and say: "Invasion? What invasion?" the way some of the newer members here are doing.
You do not seem to understand that contrary to what you may think, the majority of posters here are not anti-American. They are anti-Government! Most of them hate Russia's government just as much as they hate America's, and the violent protesters on the Maidan are acting out one of their favorite fantasies: Armed rebellion.
It's people on your side of the argument that are screaming about Russian soldiers invading Ukraine, and anyone who says otherwise here are "Russian disinformation agents". Not too sure what to make of being called a "Russian disinformation agent", especially since that would be treason to my country and it's definitely not my culture, but my sources that I follow from east Ukraine clearly state that they are Ukrainian and would only join Russia if they needed the help in fighting the fascists.
Maybe if you've read my posts you would see where I've stated that this is a fight against fascism inside Ukraine- not unlike the Spanish Civil War.
What do you mean by "my side?" When did I accuse you of being a "Russian disinformation agent?" What country do you owe allegiance to that considers voicing an opinion to be treason? What sort of culture allows you to accuse others while hiding behind anonymity? Why do you blindly believe the Russian propaganda that paints all resistance to Putin's skinhead punks "fascists?"
The undeniable fact is that Russian soldiers have attacked Ukrainian assets. This cannot be denied. Russia has invaded and committed acts of war against Ukraine. You may mistakenly believe that Putin's opponents are fascists. You would be wrong, but you are entitled to that opinion. What you cannot deny is that Russia has been making war against Ukraine, and has seized Ukrainian land. This land grab in Crimea had nothing to do with "Western interference," and everything to do with Putin's hubris.
And yet there's not much to back up your statements aside from your assurances that "these facts cannot be denied". Well, I'm denying them, because I have certainly not seen any real evidence within all of the first hand reports that I've reviewed to formulate my own opinion.
And as for sides, it's either one or the other. It's called dialectics.
The reason that post could no longer exist, is because...
ATS is clearly not only comprised, but is operated in the same way, otherwise factual videos that show the reality contrary to the illusion created by CIA would not be so blatantly censored.
originally posted by: DJW001
originally posted by: Vovin
originally posted by: DJW001
originally posted by: Vovin
originally posted by: DJW001
originally posted by: Vovin
originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Vovin
And really, how long can can people continue to blame Russia for what's going on in Ukraine?
So long as the Russians keep trying to fly their flag over Ukrainian territory, obviously. If you want to defend Russian actions, fine. That is political opinion. But denying them? That is either delusional or a deliberate attempt to mislead. Can you understand why the majority of ATS members assume that most of the new members defending the Russian invasion of Ukraine are paid Russian "cyber-warriors?"
What majority of ATS members do you speak of? All I see is about 5 or so accounts that post clear-cut pro-west propaganda, misinformation, and tend to follow other members around who don't adhere to their opinions. Some of these accounts have been doing it for years. But hey, my account says I only joined a few months ago so what would I really know about ATS
But hey, keep believing in those "Russian cyber-warriors"... Funny how Americans never boast about some apparently invincible faction of their military when they are probably in it (USA Cybercommand vs "Russian cyber-warriors").
You really should pay attention to what others here say to you, rather than try to shout them down or make accusations against them by innuendo. What I said was: it is perfectly okay to defend Russia's actions, but it does not make sense to deny them. That isn't even good propaganda because it undermines your credibility. When the United States launched its own illegal invasion of Iraq and found new ways to violate the spirit of the Geneva Convention, no-one was stupid enough to come on here and say: "Invasion? What invasion?" the way some of the newer members here are doing.
You do not seem to understand that contrary to what you may think, the majority of posters here are not anti-American. They are anti-Government! Most of them hate Russia's government just as much as they hate America's, and the violent protesters on the Maidan are acting out one of their favorite fantasies: Armed rebellion.
It's people on your side of the argument that are screaming about Russian soldiers invading Ukraine, and anyone who says otherwise here are "Russian disinformation agents". Not too sure what to make of being called a "Russian disinformation agent", especially since that would be treason to my country and it's definitely not my culture, but my sources that I follow from east Ukraine clearly state that they are Ukrainian and would only join Russia if they needed the help in fighting the fascists.
Maybe if you've read my posts you would see where I've stated that this is a fight against fascism inside Ukraine- not unlike the Spanish Civil War.
What do you mean by "my side?" When did I accuse you of being a "Russian disinformation agent?" What country do you owe allegiance to that considers voicing an opinion to be treason? What sort of culture allows you to accuse others while hiding behind anonymity? Why do you blindly believe the Russian propaganda that paints all resistance to Putin's skinhead punks "fascists?"
The undeniable fact is that Russian soldiers have attacked Ukrainian assets. This cannot be denied. Russia has invaded and committed acts of war against Ukraine. You may mistakenly believe that Putin's opponents are fascists. You would be wrong, but you are entitled to that opinion. What you cannot deny is that Russia has been making war against Ukraine, and has seized Ukrainian land. This land grab in Crimea had nothing to do with "Western interference," and everything to do with Putin's hubris.
And yet there's not much to back up your statements aside from your assurances that "these facts cannot be denied". Well, I'm denying them, because I have certainly not seen any real evidence within all of the first hand reports that I've reviewed to formulate my own opinion.
And as for sides, it's either one or the other. It's called dialectics.
I see... these are just some lads coming back from hunting:
rustelegraph.ru...
Incidentally, according to the article, these troops would leave if the referendum came out against annexation. Can you even conceive of a universe where that would happen?
originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: Vovin
I thought we were discussing the dynamics of the argument here.
Of course. "Dynamics of the argument" are so much more pleasant to discuss than brutal reality.