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An End to " It Takes Faith to be an Athiest too!"

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posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 07:33 PM
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originally posted by: Grimpachi
a reply to: AfterInfinity

Maybe their god fell victim to the laws of entropy and ran out of steam. At first he was like all powerfully on this day I will make the stars on another the animals just with pretty much a snap of the fingers but then he gets to man and needs to use clay for a woman he needs to snatch a rib from man"ouch" and so forth. Later on the best he can do is part some water or burn a bush. Now he doesn't even have enough left in him to send out an IM saying "yo I am god and I'm real".

Poor god fell victim to the laws of the universe he created.


I thought he was supposed to be above the laws he created?
edit on 28-4-2014 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)




posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 07:40 PM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity
And like I said, it could turn out to be the Jesus of the Bible in the blood and flesh, as real as my hands are to me right now. I still would not worship him, because I myself would never dream of asking that anyone worship me. And chances are, anyone asking for worship is not someone I would get along with. There is no room for worship when everyone is equal.


. I do agree with you since Idolizing creates separation and duality and the unequal power pyramid again creating karma. When I read the bible Jesus seem to not want the idolizing. Paul is for me the one makes Jesus into an idol instead of a band of soul brother and soul sisters who help each other.



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 07:44 PM
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a reply to: AfterInfinity

I think that was a fib or god is a crappy father figure.

WTH I will never make sense of the bible or those who believe it. There was once a time when I really wanted to be part of that group but no matter how much I wanted to believe that stuff I just couldn't swallow that cool aid.

At least now being an atheist doesn't mean you have to hide it for fear of retribution. Well at least for the most part there are still places that you may be put to death for it.



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 07:49 PM
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a reply to: LittleByLittle

And therein lies one of the largest flaws with Christianity and organized religion in general. Everyone likes to have their own interpretations t sit their own purpose or motivation. With atheism or agnosticism the only interpretation is treat others the way you would like to be treated and be judged for who you are and how you treat others where Christianity judges people for who they're not.



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 07:55 PM
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a reply to: ArtemisEThank you for the logical response and for thus proving my point. It doesn't matter the deity, if one proved, once and for all, that it was the one true deity, most everyone would turn to revering them ( I wont use the term 'convert'; I find it to have gross connotations).

Conversely, If it was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that no such god existed, most religious people would become atheists overnight.

So what exactly does that prove?



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 08:15 PM
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originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: SaturnFX

So what you are saying is that I could go out and commit a genocide and when my number is called, I am forgiven if I understand what I done was wrong and repent? I will be in Paradise with Jesus? At least I know why terrorists are slaughtering people now, it makes sense.


Maybe.
Then again, maybe you were asked by the victim's family before this life to take the part as the perp so they could better learn eventual forgivness and overcoming hate..and you said yes because outside of physical life, you are really good friends who help one anothers soul growth.

Could think of many scenarios..but ultimately, I don't know.
I simply know what is presented, and regardless of if you like it or not won't change the nature of reality.

Next your going to be asking why bad things happen to good people



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 08:28 PM
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originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: peter vlar

Wait a minute, I'm not using scripture to justify anything, Yet. I am simply asking questions and going with the flow, I am using examples to make sure I am on the same wavelength as everyone else. But seriously, if I am forgiven for everything I do regardless of whether it is condemned or not in the bible then to me there would be no such thing as Sin in the first place.

So is there such thing as "Sin" or was it written in the Bible for the hell of it? If everyone is forgiven, then hell is a myth also. What is being suggested here is actually contrary to what the bible teaches and to me it seems like a free pass card to get away with anything you want knowing at the same time you are wrong before you commit the act and are going to be forgiven regardless of how bad the act is.

It actually seems stupid if that's the way it is meant to be.


I just realized something by all this.
You must think an atheist is the pinnicle of evil due to them simply dismissing the bible, and "sin" itself in some sort of measurable way.

This however reflects more on you than them mind you, but we can get back to that. For now lets examine what your having issue with.
You -want- people to suffer who chose a different path..you know of religious considerations of hell and damnation, and not only do you use your religion specifically not to go there, but for you, it runs deeper...you are actually frustrated at the idea of no hell..you want to see people suffer, to burn eternally, to be able to t-bag those of different or no faiths after its done.
This....this is evil btw. I am not a religious person (clearly)...but I would think of a god was wise and just, he would choose some honest screwup and kick you right the hell away from him. Your view is simply corrupted and hateful. like, extraordinarily hateful, and you use (mock) your religion as a self righteous weapon to use on your fellow man

I don't know if there is a hell, I highly doubt it. I don't think the universe is that dysfunctional and deities, if they exist, are =that= petty, but if there is, the one thing I do know at this point is that..if I am there, you are going to be right beside me. My flaw may be in disbelief, but yours is vanity, pride, wrath, and envy. So..my advice..learn chess..because if we are roommates in hell, we are gonna want a way to pass the time during torture sessions.

Now

Let me give you some words to better yourself and your outlook on the mysteries of life:
If someone suggests all this you are already forgiven stuff, you say the following:
"I hope your right. I got plenty of heathen friends that I would want to see shocked in heaven...but for myself, I simply enjoy trying to live a virtious life. I don't suffer disbelief, I honor the belief by living as close as I can to the ideals...it makes me personally comfortable, even if it doesn't win me any extra points...because I am not doing this for points, I am doing this simply out of tribute. like clapping for a brilliant performance..I am not clapping for better seats, I am clapping out of appreciation"
Then...then do you first off understand why you would keep a religion even if heathen joe next to you gets the same end result (a beautiful performance)....and it makes you sound less of a jerk overall.



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 09:19 PM
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a reply to: SaturnFX

I am simply asking because I have read the Bible and I don't see anything that says "Be a bad person and don't worry because everything is forgiven and the teachings really mean nothing". There is more to the teachings than just forgiveness at the end of your life. During your life the teachings are also meant to play a role, if they don't and you believe forgiveness is a given regardless, then what have you learnt?

I couldn't care in the end, I am most certainly not righteous and I can admit that, I just want to know how people come to the conclusion that they can be unrighteous all their life and expect to be proclaimed righteous right before they die. When it comes down to it, the Bible is a life path. If you are on your death bed and someone says your forgiven after a life which could be seen going against the bible, haven't you just taken the teachings for granted whilst trying to get a free pass into the pearly gates?

I am by no means a Good Christian but the difference between me and others is I at least admit it. I do not hold on to stuff like death bed confessions, it's an easy way of saying I don't have to do anything while I am alive and everything will be forgiven and forgotten when I pass on. It is bs and I will not agree with it. I'm not atheist bashing, I'm not saying I am correct, I'm just asking because it doesn't seem right.



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 09:38 PM
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originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: SaturnFX

I am simply asking because I have read the Bible and I don't see anything that says "Be a bad person and don't worry because everything is forgiven and the teachings really mean nothing". There is more to the teachings than just forgiveness at the end of your life. During your life the teachings are also meant to play a role, if they don't and you believe forgiveness is a given regardless, then what have you learnt?

So then by default, not believing in the divinity of the holy trinity makes you a sinner which is a ridiculous thing to say. You are equating atheism with sin and the two concepts are not intertwined no matter how many times you keep repeating it. Not believing in a god or gods doesn't mean I'm a bad person and the insinuation is frankly, quite insulting.


I couldn't care in the end, I am most certainly not righteous and I can admit that, I just want to know how people come to the conclusion that they can be unrighteous all their life and expect to be proclaimed righteous right before they die. When it comes down to it, the Bible is a life path. If you are on your death bed and someone says your forgiven after a life which could be seen going against the bible, haven't you just taken the teachings for granted whilst trying to get a free pass into the pearly gates?


Again, you're completely missing the reality of things. Not believing in your god does not make one not righteous, does not make them bad, doesn't even mean that they can't live in accordance with the teachings of the new testament or any other mumbo jumbo. You can treat people with kindness, compassion and courtesy without following a religion, it's called being a human being and treating others the way you would like to be treated yet here you are once again contradicting your own scripture and passing judgment on people who don't think like you.


I am by no means a Good Christian but the difference between me and others is I at least admit it. I do not hold on to stuff like death bed confessions, it's an easy way of saying I don't have to do anything while I am alive and everything will be forgiven and forgotten when I pass on. It is bs and I will not agree with it. I'm not atheist bashing, I'm not saying I am correct, I'm just asking because it doesn't seem right.



Fair enough but you come off as very judgmental and ignorant to what atheism is and how we act and treat others which is kind of sad. The bottom line is, if you accept Christ into your heart all is forgiven. It's a basic tenet of the faith whether you agree with it or not is irrelevant. you can accept Christ today or 20 years from now or right before death while receiving last rights. It will, according to church doctrine get your sinning ass into heaven. you don't need to agree with it you just need to understand it.
edit on 28-4-2014 by peter vlar because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 09:46 PM
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Actually, there are some Christians who do like the Big Bang theory and associate it with the creation story.

As for faith, well there is all sort of faith. Faith in ones self or others, faith in a decent religion, faith in a #tier religion. It like falling off a horse really. To believe in a illusion(placebo), or to be disillusioned( not generally healthy).
edit on 28-4-2014 by Specimen because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 09:51 PM
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originally posted by: peter vlar
a reply to: LittleByLittle

And therein lies one of the largest flaws with Christianity and organized religion in general. Everyone likes to have their own interpretations t sit their own purpose or motivation. With atheism or agnosticism the only interpretation is treat others the way you would like to be treated and be judged for who you are and how you treat others where Christianity judges people for who they're not.


That is why I like eastern philosophies for instance Sikhism/Buddhism. Less interpretation more reasoning that can be questioned and less contradictions. The whole ambiguity thing in Christianity is annoying to me.

It is kinda funny that you quote the Golden rule. From my point of view and spiritual experience I would say keep following that rule and I will think you will be happy.

edit on 28-4-2014 by LittleByLittle because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 10:54 PM
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originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: SaturnFX

I am simply asking because I have read the Bible and I don't see anything that says "Be a bad person and don't worry because everything is forgiven and the teachings really mean nothing". There is more to the teachings than just forgiveness at the end of your life. During your life the teachings are also meant to play a role, if they don't and you believe forgiveness is a given regardless, then what have you learnt?

I couldn't care in the end, I am most certainly not righteous and I can admit that, I just want to know how people come to the conclusion that they can be unrighteous all their life and expect to be proclaimed righteous right before they die. When it comes down to it, the Bible is a life path. If you are on your death bed and someone says your forgiven after a life which could be seen going against the bible, haven't you just taken the teachings for granted whilst trying to get a free pass into the pearly gates?

I am by no means a Good Christian but the difference between me and others is I at least admit it. I do not hold on to stuff like death bed confessions, it's an easy way of saying I don't have to do anything while I am alive and everything will be forgiven and forgotten when I pass on. It is bs and I will not agree with it. I'm not atheist bashing, I'm not saying I am correct, I'm just asking because it doesn't seem right.


You have studied the bible too much and ignored the teachings of Christ. The bible (lets say new testament..the old testament god freaked out over shellfish...so lets focus on only the new) demonstrates over and over that nobody is better than the sinner. The stone thing, the tossing over of tables and whipping the people at the temple (by jesus), the endless contempt for those whom pretend they are just over other men they condemn as dirty, evil, etc...
You don't have to accept it..but its simply what he was stating..and you, and even most of the apostles, have decided to simply dismiss Jesus's words and instead use their own words and jesus's actions.

As far as some sort of universal kick in the junk for jerks upon death..well, who knows. maybe they have to reincarnate as those they terrorized. That would be an interesting and all around view. But Jesus did suggest to love your enemy...not forgive them...but love them. This suggests they don't need forgivness, they need a damn near thank you may I have another...and it is through adversity that people are tested anyhow. If everyone was a good loving neighbor, how would you know how to overcome jerks through love? You would learn nothing.
Your friends do not make you struggle and grow.

You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR and hate your enemy.' 44"But I say to you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven; for He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous

But finally, the last thing he said about us and did for us according to the bible:

Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they do not know what they are doing."


You don't make the rules of the universe, and you simply can't understand a deity that isn't mired down in petty vengeance or a demand for endless bowing/worshipping...but your inability to understand doesn't matter.
God, according to Jesus, is not Caesar demanding a giant golden statue of himself and constant praise...seems a bit more mature than all that.

And it clearly does matter to you.
You really should do some self reflection on why a promise of punishment to those who aren't Christian matters to you soo much....
You might then consider why atheists whom have none of that burden continue to be good....
(hint: its because they simply want to bring joy and happiness to the world because the world is a better place with those attributes than pain, hate, etc)



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 11:19 PM
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a reply to: captaintyinknots

Wear they haven't disproved the concept of a god. They have disproved the Christian creation story. Yet it's still taught as the " gospel truth".



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 11:38 PM
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a reply to: peter vlar

I understand there are other religions, I have had the pleasure of reading the Qu'ran about 10 times in the last 12 months. I'm not a practicing Christian so the God you think is mine actually isn't. Allah is not my God either, I am asking a question and if the question doesn't fit your path or belief system then it obviously won't affect you in any shape or form.

As for the other comment, I actually don't think it was meant for you regarding the Matthew verses, somehow I have got the reply mixed up and even I know that what I wrote had nothing to do with your post. So if that has offended you or something, sorry, I need to be more careful.



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 11:44 PM
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a reply to: SaturnFX

So all the rest of the Bible should be ignored and only the teachings of Jesus? Are you saying that the Bible is illegitimate apart from the teachings of Christ?



posted on Apr, 28 2014 @ 11:59 PM
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originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: SaturnFX

So all the rest of the Bible should be ignored and only the teachings of Jesus? Are you saying that the Bible is illegitimate apart from the teachings of Christ?


I would say that to a Christian, the only important bits are the ones they profess to follow and not the contradictions from others who were starting up a business..just my view on it.
Personally, I say toss it all and pick up some Deepak Chopra or some other modern day advanced wisdom books...the bible was good for the time, but we have since evolved socially since then.
But then again, I am not religious, so I see books for their merit of wisdom that applies to my life verses some demanding it is the mind of a deity that is relevant forever...
Seriously...Leviticus discusses how god likes certain burned smells...Creator of the universe...gets off on the smell of burning ox...time to consider what is and isn't relevant...and so far, out of all of the bible, the only guy talking any sense in it is from the Jesus character.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 12:15 AM
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a reply to: SaturnFX

So what if all the sense that this Jesus character is speaking is just mixed up parts of Books from the Old Testament? Most of the stuff in the Jesus story are just jumbled up/different versions of stories in Old Testament Books.

The Jesus Myth

Does Jesus lose his credibility or does the Bible itself gain some - Old and New Testament?



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 12:35 AM
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originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: SaturnFX

So what if all the sense that this Jesus character is speaking is just mixed up parts of Books from the Old Testament? Most of the stuff in the Jesus story are just jumbled up/different versions of stories in Old Testament Books.

The Jesus Myth

Does Jesus lose his credibility or does the Bible itself gain some - Old and New Testament?

Donno
What do you think?



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: SaturnFX

originally posted by: DarknStormy
a reply to: SaturnFX

So all the rest of the Bible should be ignored and only the teachings of Jesus? Are you saying that the Bible is illegitimate apart from the teachings of Christ?


I would say that to a Christian, the only important bits are the ones they profess to follow and not the contradictions from others who were starting up a business..just my view on it.
Personally, I say toss it all and pick up some Deepak Chopra or some other modern day advanced wisdom books...the bible was good for the time, but we have since evolved socially since then.
But then again, I am not religious, so I see books for their merit of wisdom that applies to my life verses some demanding it is the mind of a deity that is relevant forever...
Seriously...Leviticus discusses how god likes certain burned smells...Creator of the universe...gets off on the smell of burning ox...time to consider what is and isn't relevant...and so far, out of all of the bible, the only guy talking any sense in it is from the Jesus character.


It's funny you should say that, given that Jesus is the one character in the whole book who wasn't necessarily an original character. The one guy who makes sense is the one guy who was fabricated, or at the very least, rewritten to include accounts and details from mythologies far older than any Judaic nation or people.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 11:57 AM
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originally posted by: AfterInfinity

It's funny you should say that, given that Jesus is the one character in the whole book who wasn't necessarily an original character. The one guy who makes sense is the one guy who was fabricated, or at the very least, rewritten to include accounts and details from mythologies far older than any Judaic nation or people.

Point being?

I think, generally speaking, a person knows wisdom when they hear it. Doesn't matter if it comes from your friend, bart simpson, etc...
Real or imagined is irrelevant, the message is what matters and if it rings of truth and wisdom.

I don't spent much time debating the finer points of christs existence...I simply look at what was meant to be said. divinity for all, love the enemy, etc...sure. sounds about right overall.
But I think since then, be it man or committee that created these quotes, we have since grown and advanced these thoughts...so, the founding is nice, but lets focus on todays principles and wisdom.

As far as accuracy in history. way I see it, our common phrases in modern day with technological archiving gets screwed up within years...can you imagine how distorted any information of that time got in the what..60 years since the events to finally someone putting quill to parchment?




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