Well, that was interesting...

(Prepare yourself, this is a decently long thread with a lot of ranting, but necessary to get to the point; and I have questions/need guidance)


-An experience happened to me to this morning that I wasn't quite expecting, but, I probably asked for it.

You see, before I went to sleep I was juggling the thought that actually the mystics in the Himalayans and elsewhere that seclude themselves are actually the most selfish human beings currently on earth (Yeah, even more than the Rothschilds or other X name brand elitist you can think of). How could be that be? They've devoted themselves to a life of spirituality, to connecting to the 'god-head,' being one with the universe, etc. etc. whatever you want to label it, it's the same regardless. But that's exactly it. They've reached a state of enlightenment but hide from the world and seclude themselves in siddhis to live a hermetic life away from society so that THEY can experience this beautiful and wonderful experience of unity and unconditional love. They thus LIVE in that experience rather than live and live with the experience. I call them selfish because they have experienced a beautiful thing do not share it with anyone, they live by themselves for themselves in experiencing this single experience. If one knows and if one has knowledge and has experienced or lives in the divine it should be on the forefront of their consciousness to share this with all who have not experienced what they have experienced. No, instead they keep it to themselves.

So in thinking this I sent out a rather harsh message to all the mystics in the world via thought. I cussed at them for the reason above and pointed out their selfishness and it disgusted me that they could experience such an experience as I have not want to help others. They experienced divine and unconditional love but fail to have compassion to share with all? A recent thread in Philosophy & Metaphysics virtually said the same thing when quoting Marcus Aurelius in the book Meditations, exception in this case replace the word intelligence "The man having the largest intelligence out to be very generous to the other. Being thankful he has been blessed in so many ways, he should do all in his power to enlighten his less favored fellow..."
Cicero also said something that rings similarly true to this account, "The higher a man is placed, the more humbly he should walk." When someone truly walks humbly, he walks in compassion and compassion literally compels one to help the other. True compassion is feeling the suffering of others and having shared their suffering act to help alleviate that. So then, what the %^*# are the secluded mystics doing to help those in the world when the world clearly can benefit from their experience and energy besides being selfish to their own experience? I say, nothing. So I really lashed out at them, I put in all my energy in calling out all of the spiritual and all of the enlightened. Every harsh word, every negative comment I could put energy into for them being so high but doing so little to the naked eye.

And with this, I meditated some and went to sleep. Then I woke up, had a funny feeling, looked at my alarm and it wasn't time for me to wake up so I turned over and closed to my eyes still thinking about my rant last night because it was still on the forefront of my mind but yet tried to go back to sleep. Then my body suddenly froze. (You see, I was already awake and could move so this wasn't sleep paralysis) I couldn't move very much, similar to sleep paralysis. And I freaked out a little, naturally, but then a voice, one I was familiar with (I'm not sure why, I have different theories) said, " (insert name here) wants to speak to you. He wants to teach you his knowledge about a certain plant called (insert plant name here). He says it has many properties that are not generally known and wishes to teach you. Would you like to talk to him and let him in?"

Now, this was very strange because I was still very much awake, but this voice came outside of me, yet was heard inside, but not completely 'inside' of my head. Confused, and still shaken up from being frozen, I thought "Sure, I don't see why not, that seems interesting, but I'm very confused."
Next I felt a sudden taken over of my body, not violent, not even, but very sudden and it again put me into a state of freaking out. The person very calmly said, "Hello, I-..." And being new to this experience and having never felt it before, it quite scared me. I quickly responded cutting him off, "Who are you?" Then suddenly he lashed, "WHO ARE YOU? WHO ARE YOU WHO ARE YOU WHO ARE YOU?!" And it so sudden, so fierce, I could only think "GET OUT GET OUT GET OUT." And I opened my eyes and saw a man above me, floating, not distinct, but I saw the entire floating outline of a man, head and shoulders, directly above me, almost into me. After freaking out and forcing the man out, my paralysis was broken and I just sat there with my heart being fast, although, it didn't feel like my heart... and having beat so fast it hurt for a little while after.

So, in the end, all I can say is, WHAT THE HECK WAS THAT?

After I finished my classes for the day I went and tried to look up with flower that was mentioned to me by the first voice. Something similar sounding to "cicada" or "cascada," which, neither of those are a flower. One is a bug, the other is a pop singer.
Now something I didn't mention in the story was that the man was very, very, clearly Chinese. Which is 'sort-of' interesting considering that I'm now studying abroad in China. So I tried to research into famous herbalist in China, living or dead... Then I stumbled upon something very local... I live about 500 yards away from the South Putou Temple in Xiamen. The temple had its beginnings in the 7th century when a Buddhist monk named Qin Hao arrived settled down in a dwelling on the mountain side and served the local people with herbs to heal them. When leaving, the local people begged him to stay, and thus erected a small temple above his dwelling and it served as a spot where he taught Buddhism.

Funny. Could it have been him? Who knows, it could have been any Chinese throughout history or even today. That leaves billions of possibilities, this is just perhaps the closest coincidence my mind can attach onto to attempt to make sense of the situation. And even then, could it be the rant of last night is related to this experience this morning? I have no idea.

But I posted this so maybe someone could help me think about the situation logically or knowledgeably and in a guided manner and give any input or examination of the situation. Because quite frankly, this was a first and I have no idea what to think about it. I am in other words, humbly dumbfounded.

a reply to: Ouroboros21


Interesting.
Keep a jar next to bed next time, catchy catchy

a reply to: Ouroboros21

So one question: Do you still think your ideas are right? Are mystics selfish for not sharing more of their insight? Or did the experience change your mind in some way?

a reply to: EA006

I don't think I would be able to catch anything. As soon as I freaked out and rejected it, it went away, then after my paralysis was gone so there wouldn't be anything to do in that situation. However, on a personal note I find the attempt to catch 'it' disrespectful to it. It came to me, I opened up, then rejected. I would, think, if anything, I was already disrespectful enough as it was.

Although, I guess I should mention, the first 'voice' to talk, I felt very familiar with it, I was comfortable with it. Then, the one that wanted to speak with me, it of course felt totally foreign, not 'evil' or 'negative,' but it didn't exactly have a positive vibe either. It was there and I freaked out. I was unable to keep a calm mind in the situation.

a reply to: tridentblue

Not really. Although, when you asked this question it made me think, "perhaps they can act in a way such as this to reach out to others."
But I still don't see that influence through others. But then again, how seriously is one going to be taken if he states, "I obtained wisdom through a spirit-like thing under sleep paralysis!!!" Not likely.

Something to ponder for myself perhaps. Thanks.

originally posted by: Ouroboros21
a reply to: tridentblue

Not really. Although, when you asked this question it made me think, "perhaps they can act in a way such as this to reach out to others."

That's the question, isn't it? I mean, I've heard accounts of mystics from believers, they say these mystics can "move stones on the ground shape world events", so connected are they to everything. The fact that these individuals live in caves wouldn't diminish the fact that they are intimately connected with all of us, if you believe that. But at the same time, I feel the OP: If someone has this kind of deep spiritual insight, I sure would like to hear their advice for me in a direct manner.

you just entered an altered state of consciousness. after waking-up you fell asleep again though not entierly. I don't see what makes you so sure it wasn't sleep paralysis and lucid dreaming as it has all symptoms: paralysis, feeling conscious, sensing a presence...
You just got sucked into a warp tunnel of global consciousness but riding this is tough. Most times you freak out and get ejected or end up falling asleep and only have partial memory of experience.

a reply to: U4ea82

that's entierly off-topic but your avatar is HOT

a reply to: Logiciel

It definitely wasn't sleep paralysis, which I have experienced before. I was clearly awake and could move beforehand. I simply turned over on my back and closed my eyes, then "bam," it happened. Closing my eyes doesn't make me instantly fall asleep.

Edit: As a note, I have experienced lucid dreaming and astral projection. It was neither.

a reply to: Logiciel


I guess it was. I blame fatigue induced rambling but, really, it goes right down to the fact that I'm a closet skimmer.

And...thank you

originally posted by: Ouroboros21
a reply to: tridentblue

Not really. Although, when you asked this question it made me think, "perhaps they can act in a way such as this to reach out to others."
But I still don't see that influence through others. But then again, how seriously is one going to be taken if he states, "I obtained wisdom through a spirit-like thing under sleep paralysis!!!" Not likely.

Something to ponder for myself perhaps. Thanks.

When people are ready to receive they will get a little more hopefully slowly so they can handle the change/evolution from one thing to another. From my point of view they are many souls even here on ATS who are ready to speak of what they have experienced and this place as with humanity collectively cannot handle it yet.

Could the plant have been garcinia Cambodia ? Part of your OP sounds just like the promo for it by Dr. Oz, seen on TV and all over the internet.

As for sharing mystical experiences, I had one and shared it, but in the end I stopped doing so because there is no sense in watering a rock and waiting to see it grow. What is very real and personal to one person may seem too unreal to someone else, and thus it often invites skepticism, derision and judgements of all sorts. If it is not in the nature of a rock to grow, then no amount of water will help. If, on the other hand the rock was to receive a seed and hold it there, it can be the basis for sustaining growth.

a reply to: aboutface

In a way it is funny. Some people achieving some level of understanding of non duality/oneness and feel the need to remove themselves from the dualistic ones creating a duality between those who on some level of understanding of non duality/oneness and the ones who are not done with duality.

Me I am somewhere in between. Playing with both non duality and duality when I find it useful. Some days even I who are not on that level yet think the cave would be very nice and comfortable.

a reply to: Ouroboros21
Interesting post and a topic Im more than familiar with. But you said something that isnt quite true. Its not that they are keeping anything from us all...not in the least.

Its that through the path of enlightenment....they BECOME everything. At least their part of the whole. They are the world. We are the world. The world is less without each of us to make it up. Once attained, enlightenment enables that person to continue expanding their one-ness...even in silence and alone. And that contribution makes us all, a bit greater than we were.

How much greater would the world and each of us be, if we each and every one attained "perfection" or "enlightenment"..."nirvana"? IF anything? Their attainment of knowledge isnt "kept from" us....one acheieved...its ADDING to us!

a reply to: U4ea82

Jesus did I make you erase your comment?
I was talking about ME being off topic for hitting on YOU!
so sorry

a reply to: Ouroboros21

Only ever be sure that you know nothing...
Brains are weird man. Once I closed my eyes in bed and I was walking down a staircase and opening a door to a garden. The door had a stained glass rose on it and a white oval ceramic knob. Then I opened my eyes and I was back in my bed. Both felt as real. I felt like it lasted a second.
An other time I closed my eyes, heard a sound, opened my eyes and I was in an entirely different room with a candelabra over my head and wood ceiling.
Reality is a very subjective concept. But you know that.

Anyway if that guy comes back I'm really interested in hearing about "insert plant name here". I'm so tired of tarragon in my omelette...

Peace out.

I've had very similar experiences, but not to do with the subject matter you're discussing and were thinking of necessarily.
Laying in bed, almost half asleep, I've thought of things, and asked myself questions as if I were speaking to another person. I think we do this a lot, naturally, but only in my half asleep state, have I heard responses out loud - Coming from my head, but like a voice had said it right in my ear.
There was one time I remember in particular, a number of years ago, maybe three or four now, where I said something to myself in my bed. I was nearly asleep, and then right next to me I heard a voice boom in response. It wasn't shouting, but it was like somebody speaking normally, but the volume was turned way up. The sound of it shook me awake, and needless to say it took me a while to fall back asleep.
Another similar experience around the same time, I believe the next night, I was thinking back on this experience I'd had, and told myself, in my head, that whoever said something to me the night before should make their presence known to me again. Not half of a minute later, I had a cold touch on my bare back. It was the size of a hand or the palm of one. And only that section of my body got extremely cold for only a second.

Whether or not this is our tired brains playing tricks on us, or actually the paranormal is completely questionable. Something we'll never know - But I tend to believe it is supernatural, especially with my past.

a reply to: Ouroboros21

If you really want to offend someone, you need to tell them that what they have connected to is not something beautiful, but something vomitous. If they have connected to something beautiful and don't share it with anybody else, it instantly becomes filth.

But if one were to play devil's advocate, than a person could reason that they have to stay secluded to remain pure and to make the universe run smoothly. Within these two statements is the koan and the paradox.

a reply to: mysterioustranger

I never said they were 'keeping it from us,' truly each person can find their way and path on their own regardless of others. I said I am frustrated with them not providing an additional 'push' to others to send people on their own path. For not providing a physical presence to help. I do very much find this selfish. Even enlightened people who were selfish on other levels and egotistical have given the majority of their life to waking people up. Gurdjieff and Osho are perfect modern examples of this. (If one is more interested on this topic, the book 'The Three Dangerous Magi,' about Crowley, Osho and Gurdjieff is worth an enjoyable read with little seeds of wisdom throughout)

While I cannot knowledgeably argue with your points, I personally do not think that is enough. I have gone through various low stages of enlightenment for various periods of time, and speaking from experience of that experience is where my frustration comes from. (Not equating myself to Jesus in any respect, simply his feeling) When Jesus himself flipped the tables at the temple of Herod and expressed anger, even as an enlightened person by the actions of others- this is the same expression/feeling and standpoint that I am coming from. Rather, even more upset than him. Jesus was angry at those who did not known the divine, I am angry at those who do. Since I myself have experienced it in my own manner, it woke up and compelled me to share this true feeling of love and compassion and experience. And since an enlightened person can indeed be selfish and egotistical, I am basically snapping at them for only being that way and living in their experience; arguments of collective consciousness aside.


Note: (If one thinks an enlightened person can't be egotistical or otherwise, then one really doesn't understand enlightenment. Which, if one has never experienced at miniature experience of it they of course would not know or understand this and typically think enlightenment leads to 'all knowing.' Many on ATS have been listening to Alan Watts recently, he speaks quite a bit on this subject if you find the right lectures; on the Zen idea of miniture enlightenment that is. Also, I might add, quoting DT Suzuki, which Mr. Watts like to do, the feeling of enlightenment "is just like every other day, only being three inches off the ground.")