A Straight Look at the Recent Nevada Land Dispute

Great informative thread wrabbit.

I believe that this is a man who is standing up for what he feels is right. Seriously people saying he is breking the law/laws, how many laws do you break that you do not agree with? Even if they are petty laws?

Like I said before, this country was founded upon people doing what they believe is right, and somewhere down the line Mr Bundy feels he has been wronged.

It is easy for all of us to sit in our comfortable homes secluded from the rest of the country, not understanding fully what his family and ancestors mean to him, or what they did ti help shape the very country in which we reside in.

It comes down to, it doesn't matter what we think. This man is standing for what he feels is right. I commend him for that, whether he is right or wrong is not for me to decide.

originally posted by: gariac

Just note that the National Guard is in theory under control of the state governor.

Well, unless they get "federalized", that is...

The national guard is the well regulated militia in the 2nd amendment.

Not according to the SCOTUS in "District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008)".

Constitutional Construction

The prefatory clause “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State” merely announces a purpose. It does not limit or expand the scope of the operative clause “the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” The operative clause’s text and history demonstrate that it connotes an individual right to keep and bear arms.

The militia consisted of all males capable of acting together for the common defense. The Antifederalists feared that the Federal Government would disarm the people in order to disable citizen militias, thereby enabling a politicized standing army or a select militia to rule. The Antifederalists therefore sought to preserve the citizens’ militia by denying Congress the power to abridge the right of individuals to keep and bear arms.

Source

Calling out the guard for logistics is one thing. Having them shoot at people....hey that is the job of the cops!

It wouldn't be the first time they've had The Guard shoot at people, and probably won't be the last. That's probably why they let The Guard have guns to begin with.

Shooting at people.

a reply to: stirling

Just because the Feds won a war with Mexico....doesn't negate the ownership of the lands etc by common people....
Perhaps that should be revisited by the western states as they got swindled out of 60 to 80 % of the public lands by the Feds.....

It's an interesting thing to argue, but it has been and lost repeatedly in court. I've seen nothing suggesting the Federal Government was somehow restricted from the control of public lands. Actually the Taylor Grazing Act (1934) said just the opposite in assigning the duty of caring for public lands to the Department of the Interior (Different names, different structure back then). The Federal Land Policy and Management Act of 1976 further clarified it and honestly, went considerably further than I think it should have.

It's certainly worth challenging in court. However...unless it's suicide by federal agent someone desperately wants to see happen, then court is the place, not a dry wash with AR-15's like it's a bad movie with worse acting. I don't see the romantic image others do in some 'fight against the system'. I see dead and broken bodies that didn't have to be..and nothing gained by it, as the end result of things like that.

People in the nation can't even get off their duffs to vote, let alone fight....and this is a cause actually on the wrong side of the law, all the way around as the court decisions are clear and blunt in stating.

As I'd also noted in my OP, the BLM came under threat of lawsuit immediately upon aborting their cattle collection effort in 2012. There are Americans on the other side of this that will insure the BLM pays dearly if they DO NOT enforce the court order and remove those trespass cattle from the public land.

It's nothing like the simple situation some who are looking for an Anti-Gov confrontation want to paint, in my humble opnion.

a reply to: nenothtu

The Roberts court violated stare decisis. It was settled law that the well regulated militia was the national guard. But this is not a gun control thread.

The guard shoots at enemies in foreign countries. Posse Comitatus is there to prevent civilians from fighting the military. At least that is the plan.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

Note that Texas just said no to giving away their land. Hence few national parks in Texas and a small BLM footprint.

OK, Texas had a better lawyer. However, Texas wasn't the mess that most of the western states were in. They could afford not to join the union.

It comes down to, it doesn't matter what we think. This man is standing for what he feels is right. I commend him for that, whether he is right or wrong is not for me to decide.

a reply to: liejunkie01

Except Bundy has his day in court and lost. A mass murderer can believe aliens controlled his mind and made him shoot up that mall, but that won't get you off the hook in court.

It doesn't matter what you believe. You have your day in court. You win or lose. Bundy lost. Cough up the cattle and pay the fine.

originally posted by: nenothtu
a reply to: gariac

Yes.

Lackluster.

Photo 1: Why are there gawkers standing around taking snapshots like they were at a music festival? Photo op. Nothing more.

Photo 2: One grenade would get them all, bunched up like that, and standing around like they were waiting on their turn in the latrine line.

Photo 3: Pretty cammies. Nice puffed out chests. Good targets.

Lackluster. That's what I said, and that's what I meant.

Boys playing men, with expensive toys. A Boy Scout troop could have taken them out with minimal training - if the Boy Scouts could get through the line of women them big bad boys wanted to put in the front lines.

Candy asses.

I would take great offense at having weapons brandishing me.

These people are crazy and need to be disarmed. They are not responsible gun owners. Further, these whack jobs are the kind of people that cause gun control laws. You will never catch me behaving like those goons.

a reply to: gariac

I think that makes the whole difference right there. Texas joined the United States as a Republic choosing to become part of the Union. Nevada literally didn't exist when the United States took control of what would later become the Nevada Territory's land. I found another timeline that is interesting to read for nailing down a few important points in one spot.

(1519) Area claimed by Spain
(1821) Mexico took control of the Nevada area
(1841) Earliest immigrants, the Bartleson-Bidwell party, passed through Nevada
(1848) The United States gained control of Nevada after the Mexican-American War ended
(1860) The Nevada Territory was created
(1864) Nevada became 36th state

Source: World Atlas

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

If you ever met a Texan, they will talk your ear off about how Texas was a republic unto itself. More than once because you might forget. ;-)

Find another state in the nation where any schmuck can become a notary:
Have a pulse? OK, you can be a Texas notary

a reply to: gariac

Indeed.. The other site I'm a moderator at is a little community site based in South Texas. Texans are very serious people when it comes to being Texan. No question there! (Then again, Texas has a proud history independent of, as well as along with the U.S. itself, IMO)

Not to detract too much, but check out the “Eminent Domain Authority for Federal Lands Act”. It is being peddled by ALEC as a way of transferring federal land to the states, which can then transfer it to corporations like the Koch Industries. This is why Fox trumped up the Bundy situation, because it couldn't exactly try to defend the right of the Koch brothers to buy federal land. Unfortunately for ALEC, Bundy turned out to be a loose canon of questionable sanity. Remember, Bundy claims he is not a citizen of the United States.

a reply to: gariac

Remember, Bundy claims he is not a citizen of the United States.

Yup... That definitely is one of the arguments he attempted to use in court. He claimed to be a citizen of the State of Nevada but not a citizen of the United States of America. Like you say, not just land control, but that he's not a citizen of the nation at all.

originally posted by: RebelHart
all I hear about on this forum is whining about the govt and freeloading racist. why doesn't any pay attention or stand up to the American Farmers who are having their land taken away by Canadian oil corp under eminent domain. they are in court fight over their land and no body gives a f ....you're all phoney

In another thread, where KXL WAS the topic, I had this to say:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I stand against the Pipeline, and with "The Cowboy Indian Alliance". rejectandprotect.org...

There are many that want to drown out the Alliance with anything but, I do agree.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Sure i'm game. I have enough of a rebellious attitude to stand up for someone that was born and raised on land that his forefathers settled.

Then you need to go find someone else because the Bundy's settled nothing they bought the land from another family that already settled there the farm was already up and running.

You are full of it if you think anyone is out to rip off the feds for some grass.

He admits he stopped paying the grazing fees 20 years ago so yes he is ripping off grass.

I see a future where the bundy land has solar panals trees in a reasonable amount that would provide shade for the animals and plants to grow.

If you see that then you need to get some glasses because the solar plant was going to be built 180 miles from the Bundy ranch.

Nothing makes my blood boil more than someone claiming to be the final say in these matters except GOD.

If you are waiting for the mythical sky fairy to have a say in anything then you are going to be waiting a long time. America is supposed to be a land of laws if you don't want to follow those laws then why bother having them.

originally posted by: gariac
a reply to: nenothtu

He called them "militia", but they seemed to be a pretty lackluster group as militias go.

Lackluster?
militia 1
militia 2
Praetorian Guard

Wow a whole ten people. Small wonder why they planned to hide behind the women.

This picture made me think of Bundy's supporters...

a reply to: buster2010 Bundy is just the right amount of crazy for me to stand with. He will be just fine.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Perhaps this is what separates you from many others. I know I don't look for the insane to rally behind...

I look for those in the right to support.

But, choices are choices, and if you feel you want to support the "crazy" people... then you just go right ahead.

Adjective
adjective: crazy; comparative adjective: crazier; superlative adjective: craziest

mentally deranged, especially as manifested in a wild or aggressive way.


backing up slowly.... very slowly....

The real purpose behind the conservative media drive behind the Cliven Bundy "stand off";



On April 18 more than 50 elected officials from nine Western states held a private meeting at the Utah Capitol for an ALEC-backed conference called the "Legislative Summit on the Transfer for Public Lands," where they plotted to have federal land gifted to the states - and from the states to the Kochs, the financial backers of this scheme.

Western lawmakers gather in Utah to talk federal land takeover - ‘It’s time’ » Lawmakers from 9 states gather in Utah, discuss ways to take control of federal lands.

Rep. Grijalva Demands Federal Investigation into ALEC's Role in Neo-Sagebrush Rebellion

Washington Insight: The Sagebrush Rebellion lives on with Bundy dispute

You won't see ANY of this play out in the public realm, the "elected" officials have become corporate stooges for the Koch Empire, who are actively seeking to convert PUBLIC into their holdings, to exploit as they see fit.

Bundy and his confrontation with the BLM was just a ginned-up excuse to paint the Federal government as evil, to pave the way for this massive land transfer to the states then to private profiteers. They hoped it was going to turn into another Ruby Ridge or Waco, but this time the police didn't fall into the trap.

originally posted by: buster2010

originally posted by: gariac
a reply to: nenothtu

He called them "militia", but they seemed to be a pretty lackluster group as militias go.

Lackluster?
militia 1
militia 2
Praetorian Guard

Wow a whole ten people. Small wonder why they planned to hide behind the women.

It is hard to see weapons in group photos. It makes for poor photojournalism. However, Bundy had a full militia. Plenty of gun toting whack jobs.

You want to lose gun rights? Keep praising these clowns.