Why we are the Trinity

a reply to: deadeyedick

Yes I've been in many debates where Christians attempt to prove a trinity...

Doesn't mean they succeeded... One can not prove something that isn't there... but they can try of course

A Triune God was not taught by anyone In the old or new testaments...

The few proof texts they use as evidence have been proven to not be in any of the earliest texts... but written in at a later date by zealous scribes... the first mention of any triune God didn't come until over a hundred years later...

the fact is... the trinity is absent from the bible...

Scholars: Zero Evidence in New Testament for the Trinity

Being that it took 350 years after the Messiah to solidify the Trinity, the simple question is, why so long? If the Trinity is found and supported in the Bible, why did it require many centuries and numerous church schisms, arguments, debates, and even violence to legitimize and propagate this doctrine? Why wasn’t it authenticated from the very beginning, in the book of Acts, avoiding endless questions and wrangling over it? Where is the New Testament teaching of a triune being?

The fact is the word "Trinity" is not found anywhere in the Bible. Even the concept is missing. Clearly it was contrived in the imaginations of man. An exhaustive review of Scripture and history reveals the simple fact that the Trinity teaching was unknown to the early New Testament assembly, as supported by numerous authorities:

• "Because the Trinity is such an important part of later Christian doctrine, it is striking that the term does not appear in the New Testament. Likewise, the developed concept of three coequal partners in the Godhead found in later creedal formulations cannot be clearly detected within the confines of the canon" (Oxford Companion to the Bible, 1993, p. 782).

• "The Bible does not teach the doctrine of the Trinity. Neither the word ‘trinity’ itself nor such language as ‘one-in-three,’ ‘three-in-one,’ one ‘essence’ (or ‘substance’), and three ‘persons,’ is biblical language. The language of the doctrine is the language of the ancient church taken from classical Greek philosophy" (Christian Doctrine, Shirley Guthrie, Jr., 1994, pp. 76-77). It’s important to observe here that the author attributes the notion of the Trinity not to Scripture, but to influence from Greek philosophy.

• "This is not itself a Biblical term, but was a term coined by Tertullian to refer to this whole concept under one word" (Classic Bible Dictionary, Jay P. Green, p. 483). Tertullian was a Christian author and apologist who lived from 160 CE to 225 CE. Before Tertullian the word trinity did not exist in Christian writing.

• "Many doctrines are accepted by evangelicals as being clearly taught in the Scripture for which there are no proof texts. The doctrine of the Trinity furnishes the best example of this. It is fair to say that the Bible does not clearly teach the doctrine of the Trinity" (Basic Theology, Professor Charles Ryrie, 1999, p. 89).

• "It is indeed true that the name ‘Trinity’ is nowhere to be found in the Holy Scriptures, but has been conceived and invented by man" (The Sermons of Martin Luther, John Lenker, Vol. 3, 1988, p. 406). Even though Martin Luther was an avid supporter of the Trinity, he correctly recognized that the doctrine was derived from man and not from the Bible.

• "The term ‘Trinity’ is not a biblical term…In point of fact, the doctrine of the Trinity is a purely revealed doctrine…As the doctrine of the Trinity is indiscoverable by reason, so it is incapable of proof from reason" (International Standard Bible Encyclopedia , vol. 5, p. 3012, "Trinity").

• "It is admitted by all who thoughtfully deal with this subject that the Scripture revelation here leads us into the presence of a deep mystery; and that all human attempts at expression are of necessity imperfect" (New Unger’s Bible Dictionary, 1988, p. 1308, "Trinity"). Should we rest our entire faith on a belief that is a "deep mystery?"

• "Respecting the manner in which the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit make one God, the Scripture teaches nothing, since the subject is of such a nature as not to admit of its being explained to us" (Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature, p. 553, "Trinity").

• "Precisely what that doctrine is, or rather precisely how it is to be explained, Trinitarians are not agreed among themselves" (A Dictionary of Religious Knowledge, 1885, "Trinitarians"). Disagreements abounded through the centuries even among those who advocate this doctrine. Should not a belief so critical and indispensable be not only plainly and clearly taught in the Scriptures, but at least be understood and agreed upon by its very proponents?

• "The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the NT" (The Harper Collins Bible Dictionary, 1996, "Trinity").

• "The doctrine developed gradually over several centuries and through many controversies… The council of Nicea in 325 stated the crucial formula for that doctrine in its confession that the ‘Son is of the same substance…as the Father,’ even though it said very little about the Holy Spirit…By the end of the 4th century…the doctrine of the Trinity took substantially the form it has maintained ever since" (Encyclopaedia Britannica, "Trinity").

• "…primitive Christianity did not have an explicit doctrine of the Trinity such as was subsequently elaborated in the creeds of the early church" (New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Vol. 2, 1976, p. 84, "God").

• "The formulation ‘one God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century… Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective" (New Catholic Encyclopedia, 1967, Vol. 14).

www.yrm.org...

a reply to: deadeyedick

Is this why you follow church doctrine? Because you believe anything else brings damnation? That's called living in fear and is how the church gets so many followers, they use their fear of the unknown against them.

God does not damn anyone, everyone is saved eventually. That's what a true God of love would do, save everyone.

a reply to: deadeyedick

Brother, the Holy Spirit is God, it is the union of male and female. I don't deny the Holy Spirit, I deny the churches failure to mention our Mother as an aspect of God. The Holy Spirit is when one realizes who they truly are, it is understanding.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Jesus says to make the inner and outer, the male and female One. This is referring to the Mother and Father being One.

hmm... I don't know about that one...

What he is saying in Thomas is that one should make the physical body as the spiritual body within...

The spirit within desires peace and harmony... Love... while the physical body desires self gratification of all sorts...

Hes saying we should seek to find those same qualities and bring them to the world rather then seek the physical pleasures and desires of the world...

When the two become one you will find the kingdom... this means we should seek to be spiritually minded, not the physically minded

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

EDIT: I had to keep editing this in order to simplify my thoughts on this, but then I realize John 1 already says it perfectly.

John 1:1-4
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

So we are told that there is God and there is also "The Word", which is light and life and all things were made by Him.

John 1:12-14
But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Then we are told that the light came into 'the flesh' (the body - the physical) to live among us in order to teach us so that those who believe his words could become sons of God"


The Father is God.
The Son is the Physical Jesus (the Word that was made flesh)
The Holy Spirit is The Word itself (The Spirit that came into the flesh to bring light into the world)

so what are these teaching of Jesus (The Word in The Flesh) that causes us to be sons of God if we believe and follow?

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

and...

Matthew 5:44-45
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

We all have The Word (The Holy Spirit of God) within us (1 Corinthians 3:16). The Spiritual battle is between following IT or The Flesh (Galatians 6:8).

God is The Father, The Word is The Holy Spirit connected to The Father, and The Son is Jesus which is The Word in Flesh;

likewise, because 1 Corinthians 3:16 says that The Spirit of God is within our body,

You can also say that The Holy Spirit is within us, the body becomes The Son of God because of IT and we are connected to The Father.

a reply to: arpgme

The Spirit is completely non-physical as well, meaning it must be the Father because:

John 4
24 For God is Spirit, so those who worship him must worship in spirit and in truth.

This is my problem with the Catholic Trinity, there is no Mother where there should be one in my opinion.

The Son is the light of the world and is the image of God according to the bible. We see through an image of light that lights up the world around us.

The Mother or true Bride of Christ is Earth and the physical universe that's around us and makes up our world and bodies, that includes other planets having life on them as well.

The Father is the Spirit within us and all of life, he is the unseen or non-physical. He is consciousness the essence that animates our bodies and allows for the flow of time.

The Spirit or Father sees through a "lens" called the Son or image of God.

What is within the image or "outside" of us is the Mother, things such as beautiful landscapes and the Earth we live on and the thing that nourishes us.

Father Mother and Son create the Holy Spirit, which is unity and truth. When you bring full understanding or enlightenment into your life, you gain the Holy Spirit which is the union of all three.

This is my current understanding of the trinity concept.

a reply to: Akragon

It says to make the outer or physical like the inner or spiritual and vice versa. The beauty of the world around us and its complexity should speak for itself, its brilliance is only matched by the Spirit within us. The outer is a mirror of the inner and vice versa in my opinion. As above so below.

The everything of the world around us and the nothing perceiving it creates life or the Son/Word.

In my opinion, you have to be of both spiritual and physical mind, which is why he said to make them like one another.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Akragon

It says to make the outer or physical like the inner or spiritual and vice versa. The beauty of the world around us and its complexity should speak for itself, its brilliance is only matched by the Spirit within us. The outer is a mirror of the inner and vice versa in my opinion. As above so below.

The everything of the world around us and the nothing perceiving it creates life or the Son/Word.

In my opinion, you have to be of both spiritual and physical mind, which is why he said to make them like one another.

This is my favorite book brother...

lets have a look...

Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the kingdom."

They said to him, "Then shall we enter the kingdom as babies?"

Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

So again... he's clearly speaking of the physical and the spiritual body, which is actually reiterated throughout Thomas over and over... The gnostics believed that everyone must take the turn to be female, and then reborn once said person is ready as a male... but its also parallels the male being the physical body, just as the female is the spiritual...

The male body is rough, crude... unpleasant, while the female is gentile, kind and loving... beautiful, even as angels

Now clearly we all know we have the physical body, but not everyone has realised the spirit within...

SO when you (we) make the two into ONE... when you make the male and female into one... when you make the inner like the outer and vice versa... you will enter the kingdom

And yet through out Thomas you will still not find a Trinity... There is the body, and the spirit within all over the place... but no trinity, just like the bible...

Congratulations to the one who came into being before coming into being...

OR... No man goes to heaven except those who came from heaven...

originally posted by: Akragon

The male body is rough, crude... unpleasant, while the female is gentile, kind and loving... beautiful, even as angels

I think that is an opinion, not a duality. Most females would disagree that the male form is "unpleasant".

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: deadeyedick

His trinity is on the same level as the Christian one... neither are biblical, but at least he knows his is not...

He speaks from the heart...which I do respect...

And im not saying I don't respect you or your beliefs... believe what you will.... but you must know you none of the founding Fathers of your religion knew of any such trinity...

Our Lord Jesus Christ, second divine person of the Blessed Trinity said:

Matthew 28:19
Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.

a reply to: colbe

Yet this was after his death... and the first person we have writing from who apparently was taught by the resurrected Jesus said nothing about "the Father/Son/Holy Spirit" formula...

Also something Jesus didn't teach while he was alive....

originally posted by: arpgme

originally posted by: Akragon

The male body is rough, crude... unpleasant, while the female is gentile, kind and loving... beautiful, even as angels

I think that is an opinion, not a duality. Most females would disagree that the male form is "unpleasant".

try to think a little more symbolically...

the Male is the hunter gatherer, "protector" of the spirit, the killer... whilst the female is the Mother, the nurturer, life giver....

a reply to: Akragon

I personally do not see my flesh and bone body as the only body I have. I see the Earth and the universe as part of my body as well. The universe is beautiful in a very female way, it is the "womb", a place we are inside to be nourished and cared for.

The universe is the egg, consciousness is the seed and just like at conception, the male seed or Spirit is implanted into the female egg or body and creates life.

To live as a female only to be born as male when ready symbolizes being born again spiritually, to realize that we are not just body (female), but Spirit (male) as well. Once you see the Spirit within you are "born" male. The next step is to make the two into one as Jesus said.

Thank you for the input in this thread brother, I'm enjoying the idea swapping.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: colbe



Yet this was after his death... and the first person we have writing from who apparently was taught by the resurrected Jesus said nothing about "the Father/Son/Holy Spirit" formula...



Also something Jesus didn't teach while he was alive....

You don't see the problem i see. When you deny the cannon and those that recieved the word through the holy spirit as being part of the father and son then you are committing blasphemy of the spirit. Just like if i say the bible is false because it was written by man then i am denying the holy spirit's involvement in the word and placing judgement on those that were chosen for whatever reason to recieve the word.

a reply to: Akragon

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Akragon, the Gnostics are correct about reincarnation. People do change between female or male from lifetime to lifetime. The decision of which sex should be is always determined by the Spirit. Sometimes, Spirit does choose to reincarnate in a female body for 3 lifetimes and then followed by 3 lifetimes in a male body. But it has to be in a consistent pattern. The reason for this is to fully experience every aspect of life as much as possible. In fact, Spirit also chooses to be Hetereosexual, Homosexual, Both, or at times, Neither. This is why we should never judge people based on their "gender preferences."

Now, allow me to explain a little bit more about Spirit. The Spirit of God is indeed within each of us. Spirit is formless and is genderless. However, when Spirit comes to the 3rd and 4th Dimensions, which are worlds of Duality, it has to split itself into two pieces: Male and Female. So in order to exist in this world, it has become a split Spirit that fits the Duality aspect. Therefore you will always have another half of yourself somewhere else. It doesn't have to be Earth. It could be on another planet somewhere in the Universe. Your other half could also be in the 4th Dimension. So it's sometimes nearly impossible for you to find her until you ascend yourself. This is called Twin Flames or Twin Souls. Now, in order to enter Fully into the Kingdom of Heaven, which is considered the 5th Dimension, your Twin Flame must merge with you to become ONE again. The 4th is called Paradise, but Heaven begins on the 5th. So does this mean that one of you may be left behind? Well, here is the thing, if one of you is ready to ascend, that is all you need. You can pull your Twin Flame out of anywhere in the Universe or Dimension and go home together.

This was what Master Jesus in the Book of Thomas was talking about. Male and Female must become ONE and then shall you enter Heaven. What about the baby part? Well, when you first enter the 4th or 5th Dimension, you are literally a baby in consciousness and body compared to the rest of the world. For example, in the 4th, people are giants compared to you. In the 3rd Dimension, you are in an adult body, right? An adult body here average between 5' to 7'. But an adult body in the 4th is 10' to 12' tall. When you enter the 4th, you will be standing like a child compared to most people there. That's okay, after a while in the 4th, you will grow again into an adult form suitable for the 4th (this includes your brain too). Consciousness in the higher worlds reflect how tall you are. There are a total of 5 Levels of Consciousness in THIS Universe. 99% of people on 3rd Dimensional Earth function at Level 2 right now. Level 3 is Christ Consciousness (Universal Mind).

Your physical body is quite important. So you should take care of it. Why? Because the Physical body will change into a Crystalline Body when you reach the 4th. It's required for Salvation or Ascension. And in the 5th, it is an incredible Light Body made out of pure Light. But it's still the same body--transformed. Do you know why we reincarnate? One reason is to get a new body and start over. Because you need it to ascend. You remember that Master Jesus resurrected by fixing his old body back to life? Well, everybody supposed to do that or just ascend without dying. But most of us require reincarnation to get us back on track. There are some cases where you can still ascend after losing your physical body. But that requires an agreement made with the Lords of Karma and your Higher Self when you meet them in the 4th, which they can help you create a new body after death. This is only possible if you have balanced enough of your Karma and have raised your consciousness high enough to no longer require reincarnation.

originally posted by: Akragon

try to think a little more symbolically...

the Male is the hunter gatherer, "protector" of the spirit, the killer... whilst the female is the Mother, the nurturer, life giver....

The Father is the true life giver...


The Mother is The Soil, but The Father is The Seed
(and it is The Seed that becomes the flower).


The Mother is The Egg, but The Father is The Sperm
(and it is The Sperm that inhabits the egg to grow a human body).


The Mother is The Earth, but The Father is The Sun
(and it is the energy of The Sun that makes Earth Alive).


The Mother is The Stillness, but The Father is The Aliveness.
(and it is the movement, the aliveness that makes life exist)

The Mother is The Space, the emptiness of The Universe.
The Father is the spread of Light (and eventually Life) throughout it.

The Mother is filling her cup with The Father's life and we think she is giving-life because her cup overflows and extra spills out.

a reply to: arpgme

Nicely put.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: colbe

Yet this was after his death... and the first person we have writing from who apparently was taught by the resurrected Jesus said nothing about "the Father/Son/Holy Spirit" formula...

Also something Jesus didn't teach while he was alive....

Oh Akragon, He did too say it while He was here on earth. And Our Lord said I AM several times. He is God.


you gotta come around dear one, time short,

a reply to: colbe

Believe whatever you like colbe...

The fact remains... The trinity is not taught in the bible...

Neither by the followers of Jesus, or by the man himself...

And its not in the OT either...

a reply to: colbe

Yes, Jesus is God because he is one with the Father. The Father is "I AM" but Jesus is one with him so Jesus is "I AM". Did you know that Jesus prayed so that we could also be one with the Father?

John 17:20-21
Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;

That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.