2 Popes together to Canonize 2 Popes. Hmm?

I was raised Catholic (I don't claim to be Catholic any longer... I put the Kool Aid down.) The Vatican, over the past few years, has seemingly crossed into the weird...

To quote an 80s movie: "Strange things are afoot at the Circle K"

originally posted by: madmac5150
I The Vatican, over the past few years, has seemingly crossed into the weird...

Only the past few years

For its whole history its gone through stages of lunacy.

a reply to: madmac5150

The Vatican, over the past few years, has seemingly crossed into the weird...

Now that is probably the best way to put what is really a challenge to find words for. Weird.... Yes... That really does about sum up the inner workings of Vatican City in recent years.

a reply to: Char-Lee

Thank you very much for adding that. It really addresses the main question I had here. Something wasn't feeling right about this and in a direct and blatant way. Not a vague conspiracy way. So the second Canonization is on a rule change to allow for it. That, to make possible, 2 former popes given Saint status at once....and so brings us to 2x2 to Sainthood.

I swear..that doesn't entirely ease my sense of wrong here. Something just under my thinking I suppose.. Long forgotten from early exposure to devout Catholic belief, perhaps. (My mom was and is devout Roman Catholic, with her side of the family). Just something on the tip of my tongue for another similarly blatant issue ..but I can't focus on it enough to nail the unease.

Deception is rampant in the world we live in and we must be careful not to put our trust in man rather than God.

As an example of scripture from the New Testament concerning who is holy and a saint. This state of being is from only one and that one is God Almighty through His Son Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ, after his ascension to the Father sent the comforter (holy spirit) to the believers there in Jerusalem where they had received instruction from the Lord to "tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you be endued with power from on high".

Thus on the day of Pentecost the believers there were given the gift of holy spirit of which began the church age, the age of grace. To be saved, one must be born again of the spirit of which is still available to whosoever.

Regarding the word "saint", look at the following: "Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be SAINTS, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours. Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Corinthians 1:2,3)

The Catholic people have been deceived into believing that their Pope is more holy than anyone else. But, according to the Bible any one who has been sanctified by the Lord Jesus Christ by means the gift of the holy spirit is a saint.

Jesus Christ is the one who makes people into saints not some man called a Pope. The Catholic religion is full of falsehood and the people have been deceived. I would suggest one come out of that false religion and wash your hands of such.

When we all stand before the judgment, I would hate to try to explain to the judge how that I thought how much wiser that I was than the judge himself. Just because some man called Pope says someone is now a saint does not mean that is truth.

Anyone who wants to be a saint, read and be a doer of Romans 10: 9,10 because of John 3:16. I am not going to wait until some man like a Pope to take the time out of his busy day to say that I am now a saint because he said so.

Don't let anyone fool you! You can be a trash man and be a saint. You can mop floors, wash windows, be a maid, a policeman/police woman and be a saint. You can be doing 20 to life and be a saint. Anyone who answers the call of God can be saved through the Lord Jesus Christ and become a saint. A saint is one who is holy and to become holy, one must have the holy one, Jesus Christ come to reside in him or her by receiving the gift of the holy sprit.

A person is not a saint because the Pope calls you to be one. A person becomes a Saint by answering the call of God to trust and believe Him and doing what He says: Romans 10:9,10 because of John 3:16

We are all called to be saints. Few of us make it.

The canonization process is simply a way to note someone as being an example, and requires one or two miracles to be associated with whoever is being canonized (in JP II's case, a French nun was cured of Parkinson's Disease after her order prayed for John Paul to intercede for her.)

There used to be rules (whether formal or not, I don't know,) that a person couldn't be canonized within some number of years of their deaths, I thought it was 100, but maybe less than that, and I personally disagree with this canonization, they should have waited longer.

At any rate, WRabbit, there's something unusual about two live Popes being present for anything, but I'm not aware of any prophecy or belief that two Popes being present at the canonization of two Popes was a sign of anything. Just a weird coincidence.

a reply to: adjensen

Thanks! That answers the other half of my main curiosity. It's odd, but not a 'sign' or something.

These days, it never hurts to seek knowledgeable opinion on some of these little details eh? Odd times we're in.

a reply to: Cor Leonis

Don't let anyone fool you! You can be a trash man and be a saint. You can mop floors, wash windows, be a maid, a policeman/police woman and be a saint. You can be doing 20 to life and be a saint. Anyone who answers the call of God can be saved through the Lord Jesus Christ and become a saint. A saint is one who is holy and to become holy, one must have the holy one, Jesus Christ come to reside in him or her by receiving the gift of the holy sprit.

Can Gandhi be a Saint? No? Martin Luther King Jr? No?

One requirement is clear, you have to be a Catholic.

a reply to: Wrabbit2000

might help you to check out:

YT: Doug Batchelor Analyzes Pope's Recent Threat of 'Unity or Else"

youtu.be...

a reply to: windword

Can Gandhi be a Saint? No? Martin Luther King Jr? No?

One requirement is clear, you have to be a Catholic.

To be a Catholic saint, yeah, that seems pretty obvious.

There are also Anglican saints, Eastern Orthodox saints, Lutheran saints and so on.

Even Hindu saints, which I would presume could include Gandhi.

a reply to: adjensen

So, what's the difference between a "saint" and a "holy man"?

Is there a Catholic saint that wasn't a member of the clergy or sisterhood? Can a Catholic, like say Oskar Schindler, be considered for canonization? If people started sincerely praying to Oskar Schindler, I'm certain people would see miracles. If I were Catholic, I would push for his sainthood.

It kinda seems circular. Someone has to be famous enough and holy enough to be prayed to first, then when believers see miracles, they just assume it was the person they prayed to that somehow caused the miracle.

As for Gandhi, he didn't advocate for any particular religion, he was an advocate of everyone living in harmony. He fought against segregation based on religion. Hindi don't pray to Gandhi for miracles.

The canonization process is simply a way to note someone as being an example, and requires one or two miracles to be associated with whoever is being canonized (in JP II's case, a French nun was cured of Parkinson's Disease after her order prayed for John Paul to intercede for her.)

The order prayed to John Paul, what(?) after praying to Jesus, but nothing happened, after praying to Mary, but nothing happened, they prayed to John Paul and POOF! How do they know who interceded on their behalf to God?

a reply to: windword

For someone to be considered a Catholic saint, they kind of need to be Catholic.

What's the problem with that?

Recipients of the American Medal of Honor are kind of required to be American.

a reply to: adjensen

Oskar Schindler was a Catholic.

a reply to: windword

Is there a Catholic saint that wasn't a member of the clergy or sisterhood?

Of course there are.

José Luis Sánchez del Río, a 14 year old boy who was executed by the Mexican government in 1928 because he wouldn't renounce his belief in God.

There are tons of non-clerical saints. Why isn't one particular individual? I have no idea.

a reply to: adjensen

Of course there are.

José Luis Sánchez del Río, a 14 year old boy who was executed by the Mexican government in 1928 because he wouldn't renounce his belief in God.

Not quite. Unfortunately Sanchez is not a canonized saint.

Blessed José Luis Sánchez del Río (March 28, 1913 – February 10, 1928) was a fourteen year old Mexican Cristero who was put to death by government officials because he refused to renounce his Catholic faith. He has been declared a martyr and was beatified by Pope Benedict XVI on November 20, 2005.

Beatification (from Latin beatus, "blessed") is a recognition accorded by the Catholic Church of a dead person's entrance into Heaven and capacity to intercede on behalf of individuals who pray in his or her name (intercession of saints). Beatification is the third of the four steps in the canonisation (canonization) process. A person who is beatified is in English given the title "Blessed".

Why isn't one particular individual? I have no idea.

Maybe because Oskar Schindler saved Jewish lives.

Consider the words of St. John Chrysostom and St. Ambrose:

"The Jews are the most worthless of all men. They are lecherous, greedy, rapacious. They are perfidious murderers of Christ. They worship the Devil. Their religion is a sickness. The Jews are the odious assassins of Christ and for killing God there is no expiation possible, no indulgence or pardon. Christians may never cease vengeance, and the Jew must live in servitude forever. God always hated the Jews. It is essential that all Christians hate them."

St. Ambrose offered to burn the synagogue himself.
answers.yahoo.com...

You know there were some priests who did abuse children but to hear people on this site it's like the whole church was rife with it. It's just not true. Why is it the first thing that comes to mind and why are some of you absolutely obsessed with the idea? It's rather sick in its own right the way some people's thoughts are so centered on sexual abuse.

a reply to: windword

Geez, do you just have some pressing need to be contrary to everything a Christian says?

St. Aedesius, he's a saint, and he's not a priest or Pope.

There are about a bazillion of them here: Saints A to Z, you'll find plenty that are not priests, Popes or nuns.

Maybe because Oskar Schindler saved Jewish lives.

Or maybe because you, who don't know the criteria that the church uses to determine what a saint is, don't realize that he might not be qualified for canonization.

umm this comes too mind ,,

"And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth."


two witnesses,, two Popes here on Earth,, two in Heaven,,u know,,
as above,, so below.

just a thought.

p.s

it ain't ADAM,,he's got a belly-button,,unless it's,,Cain?? or Able? Seth??
and Guy in Cloud is Adam

Ummmm not two in heaven more like 264 in heaven and two on earth. Usually it's only one as being pope is usually til death. It's only because Benidict retired instead of dying that two live right now. reply to: BobAthome