There is NO SUCH THING As a Dissapearing Plane in the 21st Century.

originally posted by: jheated5
a reply to: GeminiSky

No black box? What do you think they are trying to track while they're sending in the submersible? They got the radar ping 2 weeks ago from the black box. Still it is a non issue distraction to me, why a story has like this has lasted so long is beyond me, I'm not taking the conspiracy jab on this one..... Leave it alone already.... OOO we haven't visited Malaysia in ooo idk since 1966 and all of a sudden....

I say no black box. And until its actually found you cannot say otherwise.

GS

Only a few months ago, my friend visited RAF Fylindales (after 5 year wait). This big radar base - it was rumoured - with its sister radars could pick up 10 m2 of metal anywhere fling in the world. Anyway, as I say only a few months ago, they were told that the radar could pick up the missiles in Syria on the edge of its range if the missiles went high enough. This is about 2,200 miles away.

So I think you are onto something - as these radars were meant to cover the world. And i have not mentioned Diego Garcia which would need special protection

a reply to: templar knight

It's an OTH-B radar. It can't see "anywhere in the world", as you clearly said 2200 miles is about as far as it can see. It also can't see too closely to its antennas.

Those radars are rare because they require huge areas and are expensive. There are only six or seven that I can think of off the to of my head, and two of those are in storage.

The transmitter antenna is usually around 600 feet long, and the receiver around 950 feet long or so.

originally posted by: templar knight
Only a few months ago, my friend visited RAF Fylindales (after 5 year wait). This big radar base - it was rumoured - with its sister radars could pick up 10 m2 of metal anywhere fling in the world. Anyway, as I say only a few months ago, they were told that the radar could pick up the missiles in Syria on the edge of its range if the missiles went high enough. This is about 2,200 miles away.

So I think you are onto something - as these radars were meant to cover the world. And i have not mentioned Diego Garcia which would need special protection

Yes it would need to be protected...after all isnt it a military base in the middle of nowhere?

GS

originally posted by: Zaphod58
a reply to: templar knight

It's an OTH-B radar. It can't see "anywhere in the world", as you clearly said 2200 miles is about as far as it can see. It also can't see too closely to its antennas.

Those radars are rare because they require huge areas and are expensive. There are only six or seven that I can think of off the to of my head, and two of those are in storage.

The transmitter antenna is usually around 600 feet long, and the receiver around 950 feet long or so.

This is why they install more than one unit....even with the 6 or 7 you have decided to think of "off the top of your head" how many square miles can these radars cover if used together?>

Thats of course using the logic that the publicly known radars are the best we have (who knows how advanced the current classified radars are??)

GS

a reply to: Zaphod58

I am very curious Zaphod...you clearly only seem interested in picking apart other peoples replies....have you no genuine input of your own to offer in this thread?

GS

a reply to: GeminiSky

Its very difficult to link them together like that. The antennas have to be spaced so far apart from each other to prevent interference, even from the transmitter and receiver.

Even if you could link them, you only get both better coverage of the same area, and coverage of a wider area around the antenna. You can't extend the range, because of the way the radar transmits. There are times it can't even be used because of upper atmosphere disturbances.

a reply to: GeminiSky

I've posted my thoughts several times across multiple threads. I'm not "only interested in picking apart" anything, only posting information I know in relation to what is being said.

I remember back in the day when beepers was widely used and remember reading a story of a diver received a message that vibrated under his wet suit. Now if that story is true and a beeper can do that then why can't a box with today's 2014 technology not have a satellite GPS locator?? If the box did have a GPS/ping locator a submarine could drag a buoy and pick it up. I just can't see how Boeing or the government cannot find this plane. Not only that in any case there would be a massive debris field. Many metal parts wing's fins etc have air pockets and will float and not sink. There is no excuse for not finding this plane.

Good thread. Congrats to the OP for digging up the reference to the Malaysian Airlines' maintenance deal with Rolls Royce. It appears that even that element of tracking availability was present in this case, yet no plane found.

People who are not used to looking at alternative news sources or to questioning authority just believe what they are told. The government usually holds all the informational and investigative cards in games like this. The average Joe is not even interested in problems of an Orwellian sort.

My understanding is that we know that the transponder was turned off intentionally and that the plane was taken off course intentionally. My understanding is that the plane is known to have flown for hours off course without a hijack alert being put out. Do I have that right? If I do, then we are already in very suspicious territory.

The Chinese and Malaysian ATCs must have known that the aircraft was missing when it didn't reach its "handover" position. A radar search for the plane would presumably have begun at that point.

The OP is right in the sense that it is very odd that nobody was following this plane, off course, while it was still in the air, attempting to figure out what was going on with it.

Has anyone seen a statement from Diego Garcia about this situation? Surely nothing in the air over the Indian Ocean goes unnoticed by that base.

There was a report of a sighting by Andaman Islanders of a low flying jet in their vicinity. Was that aircraft ever ID'd? Were those sightings investigated properly? What about the woman who was on a flight from Malaysia (?) to the Persian Gulf area who said she saw a plane in the water? Was that sighting carefully investigated?

With so many layers of overlapping surveillance, it is hard to imagine even Murphy's Law elbowing its way into matters in this case, but it could have.

Are government and corporate spokespersons concealing information in this case? Almost certainly yes.

Is that long north/south arc of satellite coverage, that was used as the basis for the presumed location of the plane, really the only swatch of the Indian Ocean that governments care to discuss. Surely they could comment about other arcs of "coverage" with centers in India, Australia, Diego Garcia, China and Russia, not to mention Malaysia, Thailand and Indonesia.

One gets the impression of a discussion that is being kept within narrowly confined parameters on purpose. One gets the impression of an awful lot of collusion/cooperation/sensitivity going on here between governmental and corporate authorities. At the very least, this is a story of a multi-layered screw-up.

At the very least, the back drop to this story is a butt covering fiesta.

When it comes to sinister intent, the fog and mist close in completely. Exploitation of such an event, as a stunt, would already have happened if the usual suspects were involved.

More murky intentions are harder to discern. What could they be, that required such an extreme game plan, that couldn't have been done more simply, some other way?

Has anyone's government or airline made a statement as to what it urges to be done to cover the gaping hole in the surveillance of commercial airliners over the Indian Ocean? I haven't heard it.

But that's normal for "nowadays" anyway.

Of course, what is most likely is that there is no gaping hole in the surveillance of commercial airliners over the Indian Ocean.

On my way home from work today, I bought a small bag of potato chips. It cost me CAN$1.55. In 1964, as a kid, the very same bag of potato chips would have cost me CAN$.05. Even adjusted for inflation, we are getting way less for our money these days as consumers and as taxpayers, but the worst thing of all is that we are doing very little to remedy the situation.

originally posted by: sean
I remember back in the day when beepers was widely used and remember reading a story of a diver received a message that vibrated under his wet suit. Now if that story is true and a beeper can do that then why can't a box with today's 2014 technology not have a satellite GPS locator?? If the box did have a GPS/ping locator a submarine could drag a buoy and pick it up. I just can't see how Boeing or the government cannot find this plane. Not only that in any case there would be a massive debris field. Many metal parts wing's fins etc have air pockets and will float and not sink. There is no excuse for not finding this plane.

That is correct there is no excuse..

GS

originally posted by: GeminiSky

Thats of course using the logic that the publicly known radars are the best we have (who knows how advanced the current classified radars are??)

GS

That right there is the exact answer to your thread. Its a catch 22 situation. I believe there are radar/satellite systems out there which have seen and know where the plane is right now. Now if those of the know were to give out that information, their exploration techniques will surely be probed by all sorts of entities, giving away their trade secrets. Its not as simple as people tend to think.

Something occurs to me:

Aren't we talking about one of the world's currently most watched, most listened to, most patrolled area of the world? China, Malaysia, Indonesia, Japan, Taiwan, several groups of American ships. Some of the most sophisticated listening equipment in the world is currently tuned to that are of the world full time with all the tensions there between China and Japan over the south China Sea and disputed territories there. So how does a plane flying through and around that area of the world not be picked up, at least as part of the noise of everything else they are watching? Why haven't they gone over the noise of the area? That seems odd to me.

I personally think that an attempt was made to steal the plane, but it did not succeed. With oceanic currents, etc., plus a skilled pilot making a controlled landing on the surface of the ocean, that plane may be a thousand miles off of the plotted possible courses by now, don't you think? That seems like the most plausible to me.

Of course, my father-in-law worked as a high ranking radar operator for the Air Force for years on some black projects, and his theory is that they know where it went, and just don't want to tell us that Pakistan has it, because we would all be afraid of an incoming flying missile disguised as a jetliner.

Meh, I'm not afraid. Fate will be what it will be.

originally posted by: Everlastingknowitall
Something occurs to me:

Aren't we talking about one of the world's currently most watched, most listened to, most patrolled area of the world? China, Malaysia, Indonesia, Japan, Taiwan, several groups of American ships. Some of the most sophisticated listening equipment in the world is currently tuned to that are of the world full time with all the tensions there between China and Japan over the south China Sea and disputed territories there. So how does a plane flying through and around that area of the world not be picked up, at least as part of the noise of everything else they are watching? Why haven't they gone over the noise of the area? That seems odd to me.

I personally think that an attempt was made to steal the plane, but it did not succeed. With oceanic currents, etc., plus a skilled pilot making a controlled landing on the surface of the ocean, that plane may be a thousand miles off of the plotted possible courses by now, don't you think? That seems like the most plausible to me.

Of course, my father-in-law worked as a high ranking radar operator for the Air Force for years on some black projects, and his theory is that they know where it went, and just don't want to tell us that Pakistan has it, because we would all be afraid of an incoming flying missile disguised as a jetliner.

Meh, I'm not afraid. Fate will be what it will be.

Yes this surrounding area is heavily monitored...

GS

As far as ground signals goes the terrain & mountains, curve of the earth weakens the signals. The higher the antenna the better line of sight and angle the further out the signal can reach. Standing flat on the ground level you only have about a 3 mile out line of sight then it degrades. In fact some cloudy days or gray overcast can actually improve signals because the waves are bounced back down bypassing mountain terrain.

Satellite phones with a small dish can hit the satellite directly which in turn relays the message's around the earth to the repeater towers. For $5,000-$30,000 you can have a small satellite dish phone/internet anywhere in the world land/sea. The sea can be unpredictable, relentless and unforgiving. The second you don't respect the sea, your worst nightmares will become reality.

a reply to: Zaphod58

LONDON: The Malaysian prime minister has finally confirmed reports that the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 was tracked by military radar, as he prepared to host US President Barack Obama in Kuala Lumpur seven weeks after the plane disappeared....

...Speaking to CNN, Najib confirmed that the radar did indeed track the plane once it had turned back from its original flight path — but said that this was only established "after the event".

He said he believed there was someone monitoring the radar at the time, but that nothing more was done to investigate the unidentified aircraft because "it was deemed not to be hostile".

"It behaved like a commercial airline, following a normal flight path," Najib said.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com... 527.cms?

i just had a feeling...



i can only access the link from here
www.rense.com...

originally posted by: Danbones
a reply to: Zaphod58

LONDON: The Malaysian prime minister has finally confirmed reports that the missing Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 was tracked by military radar, as he prepared to host US President Barack Obama in Kuala Lumpur seven weeks after the plane disappeared....

...Speaking to CNN, Najib confirmed that the radar did indeed track the plane once it had turned back from its original flight path — but said that this was only established "after the event".

He said he believed there was someone monitoring the radar at the time, but that nothing more was done to investigate the unidentified aircraft because "it was deemed not to be hostile".

"It behaved like a commercial airline, following a normal flight path," Najib said.

timesofindia.indiatimes.com... 527.cms?

i just had a feeling...

Nice find!!

a reply to: Danbones

They've said off and on that it appeared on radar as it crossed back over the Malaysian peninsula. Once it crossed back out to sea there was no radar coverage to see it.

a reply to: GeminiSky

Given, this plane was said to have flown between two major US air bases. Deigo Garcia, and Xmouth. I won't even mention Rottnest down by Perth Australia. I say its a big fat load of the stinky stuff, and you should note that many, many people call BS on this one. The great masses of our population do not really have a voice. Our Media purports to be a voice of the people but in reality they are just paid actors etc.. Just because you don't hear it on the news does not mean we do not care or not thinking what a load this is..

I think this was done either to test US radar capability in the Indian ocean, or the plane was landed safely for later use in some false flag etc.. Of course it could have been some twisted pilot, but I bet you he would have wanted some credit.

Obama said: "Obviously we don't know all the details but we do know the plane went down in the ocean in this part of this world. It is a big place and it is a very challenging and laborious effort. It is going to take quite some time."

from the above link
still it means the big mystery of black holes and all the israeli and iranian, terrorists and rothschild skulduggery etc is solved its just lost at sea
at least now its on cnn
its confirmed
and they did somewhat track it. and knew it

not sure everyonce in a while I get a link that just won't copy