Christianity, homosexuality and pig meat.

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: Akragon

Splitting hairs are we?

I think you'll find loads of non Christians and Atheists are anti gay too. I and another member have presented information that debunks the belief that God is on your side when screaming 'death to fags' and the like in the manner that unenlightened fools like our mates at Westboro like to do.

I wonder... Have you ever found a church or congregation that will forbid liars to attend? Or perhaps sinners in general?

Which sin is greater then the next?

There are load of Christian sects and churches all over the world who will not let people that are openly gay attend... yet being gay is no greater a sin then the liar, or the thief... or any of the rest of us sinners...

Most of Christianity is Anti gay... but there are of course exceptions to every rule

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Akragon

the idea of Jesus being the Torah made flesh is insanity

That comes from so-called Messianic Judaism, their attempt to create a non-christian explanation for Jesus.

And Akra thought I was saying Torah, but I was not..lol.

When I said OT law, I meant law from the very beginning, because there are definite laws pre-Moses.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Akragon

the idea of Jesus being the Torah made flesh is insanity

That comes from so-called Messianic Judaism, their attempt to create a non-christian explanation for Jesus.

I've always wondered honestly...

the first time I heard that I almost fell out of my chair laughing

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: markosity1973
a reply to: Akragon

Splitting hairs are we?

I think you'll find loads of non Christians and Atheists are anti gay too. I and another member have presented information that debunks the belief that God is on your side when screaming 'death to fags' and the like in the manner that unenlightened fools like our mates at Westboro like to do.

I wonder... Have you ever found a church or congregation that will forbid liars to attend? Or perhaps sinners in general?

Which sin is greater then the next?

There are load of Christian sects and churches all over the world who will not let people that are openly gay attend... yet being gay is no greater a sin then the liar, or the thief... or any of the rest of us sinners...

Most of Christianity is Anti gay... but there are of course exceptions to every rule

Gay people can attend church. I wouldn't stop a gay person from going to church. But I probably wouldn't listen to them preach, just as I would not listen to a liar or thief preach. And if the pastor commits adultery while he is a preacher, then no, wouldn't listen to him either.

Would I listen to a preacher who drives a Harley and wears leather chaps (at least with pants), maybe not if he was out drinking and wild the night before.

Would I beat a gay person up? No, my grandfather was gay but he loved his grandchildren.

a reply to: WarminIndy

You lead a church?

you are one person... its never one person who casts out someone that's unwanted, its the crowd...

Gays are allowed in some churches perhaps, but by no means the majority...

a reply to: WarminIndy

Between God and His Son, or between God and us?

There isn't actually a literal New Covenant.
That is just a term to create a metaphor using an old existing known quantity to work off of.
Meaning that it was well known at the time of the writing of the New Testament that there was this idea that Moses made a covenant between The Lord and Israel, involving the Law.
In order to describe the new situation that made the old covenant obsolete, it was convenient to create the metaphorical term, "the new covenant".

Jesus was the sacrifice. Therefore Jesus can't be the beneficiary of the new covenant.

Jesus was not part of some new scheme where he gets sacrificed to replace and old scheme where animals were sacrificed.
The idea expounded by the New Testament testament is that metaphorically, Jesus' death puts into effect this new situation where he is taken into heaven in a resurrected spiritual body to serve as our representative.
First he had to die, and of course it involved suffering, so it was a personal sacrifice for Jesus to allow himself to be subjected to that.
But, it does not make Jesus a sacrifice in the sense of a religious ritual of offering lives to some pagan deity.
Jesus was "an offering", but in the sense that he was a gift from God to mankind to reconcile us to Him as someone to trust and love because He cares about us.

a reply to: Akragon

There are load of Christian sects and churches all over the world who will not let people that are openly gay attend... yet being gay is no greater a sin then the liar, or the thief... or any of the rest of us sinners...

The operative word here is "openly".
I don't think churches would allow openly murderous people attending, or openly liars or openly thieves.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: WarminIndy

Between God and His Son, or between God and us?

There isn't actually a literal New Covenant.
That is just a term to create a metaphor using an old existing known quantity to work off of.
Meaning that it was well known at the time of the writing of the New Testament that there was this idea that Moses made a covenant between The Lord and Israel, involving the Law.
In order to describe the new situation that made the old covenant obsolete, it was convenient to create the metaphorical term, "the new covenant".

Jesus was the sacrifice. Therefore Jesus can't be the beneficiary of the new covenant.

Jesus was not part of some new scheme where he gets sacrificed to replace and old scheme where animals were sacrificed.
The idea expounded by the New Testament testament is that metaphorically, Jesus' death puts into effect this new situation where he is taken into heaven in a resurrected spiritual body to serve as our representative.
First he had to die, and of course it involved suffering, so it was a personal sacrifice for Jesus to allow himself to be subjected to that.
But, it does not make Jesus a sacrifice in the sense of a religious ritual of offering lives to some pagan deity.
Jesus was "an offering", but in the sense that he was a gift from God to mankind to reconcile us to Him as someone to trust and love because He cares about us.

Sacrifices were offerings, but who was doing the offering?

God Himself made the offering. God would provide Himself a lamb. That is repeated throughout the NT, from Paul and Peter both.

The lamb of God, slain.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: WarminIndy

You lead a church?

you are one person... its never one person who casts out someone that's unwanted, its the crowd...

Gays are allowed in some churches perhaps, but by no means the majority...

What makes you think I lead a church?

Yes, one person, but one person can make a difference.

a reply to: WarminIndy

You said you wouldn't stop a gay person for attending church... so I asked of you lead one...

Again, you are one person... what happens when the rest of the congregation tells said gay person they have no right to attend because of their sexual preference?

Would you step in and object?

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Akragon

There are load of Christian sects and churches all over the world who will not let people that are openly gay attend... yet being gay is no greater a sin then the liar, or the thief... or any of the rest of us sinners...

The operative word here is "openly".
I don't think churches would allow openly murderous people attending, or openly liars or openly thieves.

So hiding the fact that their gay would be a better option?

Im not a fan of people that hide things from me personally... though I would trust an openly gay person more then a liar hiding amongst the flock...

a reply to: WarminIndy

Sacrifices were offerings,

But not all offerings are sacrifices.

but who was doing the offering?

We don't offer Jesus, even if the Catholics think that their priests do.

God Himself made the offering.

God sent Jesus into this world.

God would provide Himself a lamb. That is repeated throughout the NT, from Paul and Peter both.

I must have missed that.
Could you point out to me where they said that?
There is something similar to what you are saying in the Old Testament, in a conversation between Abraham and Isaac.

The lamb of God, slain.

That is in Revelation but it is not clear that it means specifically Jesus.
It likely is talking about the group of people who follow God even to the point of being martyred for it.

originally posted by: WarminIndy
Would I listen to a preacher who drives a Harley and wears leather chaps (at least with pants), maybe not if he was out drinking and wild the night before.

Just because someone is a hypocrite that doesn't mean that they aren't preaching the Truth. Most hypocrites tell you the Truth but they don't actually follow it themselves.

This is why Jesus said to 'do what they say but not what they do' (Matthew 23:2-3)

a reply to: Akragon

So hiding the fact that their gay would be a better option?

What does being "gay" mean?
If it means participating in homosexual activities, I don't want to see anyone having sex.
If you want to wear a big sign that says, "I'm gay", you might want to keep it at home when you go to church.
I think the problem is people who want to force everyone to acknowledge them as being "normal" so they make everyone change what the definition of normal is.
Then people, like children, have no idea what to act like since there is no longer any sort of rational standard for normalcy.

a reply to: jmdewey60

Actually the problem is they are normal, and Christians don't want to accept that fact...

Children do not see gay people and suddenly think... hmm, I should be gay, sounds like a hoot! LOL

Children are either gay or their not... know this for a fact because when I was a child I went to school with a guy who ALWAYS knew he was gay... when everyone else was just discovering girls, he was playing with them, and had no interest in pulling their hair or teasing them as the rest of us did...

People are born gay, its not a choice who you're attracted to...

Edit: I shouldn't make this exclusive to Christians.... Lets say people of the Abrahamic religion base

a reply to: Akragon

People are born gay, its not a choice who you're attracted to...

So is being born with Down Syndrome normal too?
I realize that there may be a statistical norm of a certain percentage of people being born with that condition, but having it is not normal.

Do you think it is possible to be born borderline gay?

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Akragon

People are born gay, its not a choice who you're attracted to...

So is being born with Down syndrome normal too?
I realize that there may be a statistical norm of a certain percentage of people being born with that condition, but having it is not normal.

Do you think it is possible to be born borderline gay?

See... again, its referred to as an affliction or a disease...

being born with down's syndrome is not the same as being born gay... In fact I think those that are born with down's syndrome are extremely special people.... in fact their amazing people who many could learn a lot from... I'd even go so far as to say some of them are blessed by God for so many reasons...

Borderline gay?

No idea... I know there are people that will just have sex with anyone... there are also people who are terrified to just admit that they are attracted to the same sex... so they hide it, and live a horrible existence denying who they are in the process...

Its not a "condition" or a disease... or anything that can be cured...

the fact is people know what makes their soldier stand at attention...

a reply to: Akragon

... In fact I think those that are born with down's syndrome are extremely special people.... in fact their amazing people who many could learn a lot from...

Being special and being normal are mutually exclusive.

Borderline gay?

No idea...

I think a factor could be imprinting, where some people will pick up things as children from adults around them.
How your parents act can influence how you act, or other people who you are around a lot.
I think the strictly biological aspect is too complex for a simple yes or no, that there has to be borderline people who could go either way depending on environmental factors.
That is not to say that there are not extreme examples of those who never had a chance to be anything different.

originally posted by: Akragon
a reply to: WarminIndy

You said you wouldn't stop a gay person for attending church... so I asked of you lead one...

Again, you are one person... what happens when the rest of the congregation tells said gay person they have no right to attend because of their sexual preference?

Would you step in and object?

I most probably would, but then again, I believe church is where you go to be ministered to, healed and helped. That means all people, and gay people certainly have times they need to be ministered to, healed and helped. Why would I prevent them any more than anyone else?

But the Psalm says "Blessed is the man who standeth not in the counsel of the ungodly" so if a preacher is a hypocrite, then he is ungodly and I don't have any obligation to sit and listen to him.

originally posted by: Akragon

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: Akragon

People are born gay, its not a choice who you're attracted to...

So is being born with Down syndrome normal too?
I realize that there may be a statistical norm of a certain percentage of people being born with that condition, but having it is not normal.

the fact is people know what makes their soldier stand at attention...

I think borderline qualifies as bisexual. But that sounds funny because there is no such word as unisexual.

ETA : So it's normal for people to know their soldier stands at attention when it comes to cars and blow up dolls and park benches and outdoor grills?

How many times have you heard about those things?

edit on 4/29/2014 by WarminIndy because: (no reason given)