Christianity, homosexuality and pig meat.

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posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 07:17 AM
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a reply to: FlyersFan

no Jesus did not do away with a portion of the law.he clearly said not one dot would go away and that the entire law would remain.




posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 08:15 AM
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a reply to: WarminIndy

I suppose you are kind of the same way, there are things you don't allow in your home.
I would never be out in my yard mowing the lawn on a Saturday.
Being a Christian rather than an orthodox Jew, I would (and do sometimes) take off on my bicycle from my house for a joy ride on a Saturday, since "the Sabbath was made for man" as Jesus said.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 08:19 AM
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a reply to: sk0rpi0n

you believe God conveniently tweaked the laws for christians, by doing away entirely with the law. (though Jesus clearly said the law was to remain.)
Jesus did not "clearly" say that.
What Jesus was doing was pointing out how the Pharisees were content to belong to a "holy" people based on their having been given the Law, but not actually living according to the spirit of the Law.

edit on 29-4-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 08:23 AM
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a reply to: sk0rpi0n

no Jesus did not do away with a portion of the law.he clearly said not one dot would go away and that the entire law would remain.
"Until all is fulfilled", which of course has already happened now, we have the church, which is the fulfillment.
Meanwhile, Jesus on the ground, while he yet lived as an otherwise normal man, could use the Law at will to criticize all the self-appointed "teachers of the Law".
edit on 29-4-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 08:37 AM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: sk0rpi0n

you believe God conveniently tweaked the laws for christians, by doing away entirely with the law. (though Jesus clearly said the law was to remain.)
Jesus did not "clearly" say that.
What Jesus was doing was pointing out how the Pharisees were content to belong to a "holy" people based on their having been given the Law, but not actually living according to the spirit of the Law.

jesus did call out the pharisees on their ocd-ish law keeping and brought to light their shortcomings in their attitude towards keeping the law. He DID say that not one dot of the law would disappear but the whole thing would remain till heaven and earth pass away.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 08:40 AM
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a reply to: sk0rpi0n

. . . his disciples sat around munching bacon when the speech was made as if it 'proves' that Jesus permitted pork.
It seems to have been spoken as a general principle, only using the one instance as an opportunity to bring up the discussion.
The next question might be if most of the Law itself was man made.
It is really doubtful that this law tradition was kept intact for twelve hundred years, as the legend would have it, that Moses somehow wrote down the whole thing himself, and then it was miraculously preserved in a secret storage place in the temple.
The original Hebrews were according to the story, nomadic shepherds with sheep and goats, where the Canaanites were settled in towns and cities where keeping swine would be practical.
The restriction could have been put in there as a way to differentiate between the two peoples, and just stuck, by force of tradition.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 08:40 AM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: sk0rpi0n

no Jesus did not do away with a portion of the law.he clearly said not one dot would go away and that the entire law would remain.
"Until all i fulfilled", which of course has already happened now, we have the church, which is the fulfillment.
Meanwhile, Jesus on the ground, while he yet lived as an otherwise normal man, could use the Law at will to criticize all the self-appointed "teachers of the Law".

He didn't. Insted he recognized the authority of the teachers of law because they occupied moses seat and instructted people to do as they say.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 08:58 AM
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a reply to: sk0rpi0n

He DID say that not one dot of the law would disappear but the whole thing would remain till heaven and earth pass away.
You added the "the whole thing would remain" part.
Jesus inserts into the saying the possibility of its disappearing.
Jesus said, "Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven
."
He was bringing that kingdom about as he said that.
The "poor in spirit" were those who were not all full of themselves, thinking they were so godly by having the Law.
Those "poor" people more more ready to accept the new law of Jesus, to be humble and to be the servants of others.
Getting your hands dirty doing practical works that actually helps people rather than things just for show to make you look good or "holy", such as wearing a certain kind of outfit that was clearly kosher according to this law that was meant to divide people.
The new kingdom had no place for all of that.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 09:02 AM
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a reply to: sk0rpi0n

He didn't. Insted he recognized the authority of the teachers of law because they occupied moses seat and instructted people to do as they say.
He didn't criticize the Pharisees?
Hmm, I think you should reread the gospels.
Saying that the Pharisees sat in the seat of Moses was actually demoting Moses to what he really was, basically a Pharisee.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 09:02 AM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: sk0rpi0n

. . . his disciples sat around munching bacon when the speech was made as if it 'proves' that Jesus permitted pork.
It seems to have been spoken as a general principle, only using the one instance as an opportunity to bring up the discussion.


it couldn't have been a ''general principle'' as nobody in that crowd even enterttained the idea of consuming pork. The speech in mark 7 followed the incident of pharisees finding fault with people eating mere BREAD with unwashed hands. The issue of pork was not even raised. It in no way means Jesus allowed the eating of pork as christians have assumed.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 09:02 AM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: sk0rpi0n

. . . his disciples sat around munching bacon when the speech was made as if it 'proves' that Jesus permitted pork.
It seems to have been spoken as a general principle, only using the one instance as an opportunity to bring up the discussion.


it couldn't have been a ''general principle'' as nobody in that crowd even enterttained the idea of consuming pork. The speech in mark 7 followed the incident of pharisees finding fault with people eating mere BREAD with unwashed hands. The issue of pork was not even raised. It in no way means Jesus allowed the eating of pork as christians have assumed.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 09:10 AM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: sk0rpi0n

He didn't. Insted he recognized the authority of the teachers of law because they occupied moses seat and instructted people to do as they say.
He didn't criticize the Pharisees?
Hmm, I think you should reread the gospels.
Saying that the Pharisees sat in the seat of Moses was actually demoting Moses to what he really was, basically a Pharisee.

he criticized pharisees but he also told his people to do as they say. So if you were present around jesus then you would have to do as the pharisees said. He didn demote moses, he promoted the pharisees...as strange as it sounds.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 09:20 AM
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a reply to: sk0rpi0n

it couldn't have been a ''general principle'' as nobody in that crowd even enterttained the idea of consuming pork.
"The Pharisees and some of the teachers of the law who had come from Jerusalem gathered around Jesus "
Came down where? To Galilee of the gentiles.
I'm sure there was plenty of pork to be had in the gentile marketplace, where a fisherman could probably trade some fish for, if he wanted to.
The "defilement" was about what they were saying, that if they were reciting the scriptures, they were ceremonially unclean, in that they should do a cleansing afterwards to create a demarcation between the divine and the mundane.
They were really questioning their right to be teachers of the law, since there was proper procedure to be followed if you were bona fide teachers.
Jesus was saying that if you are saying the right things, that is what matters.
Oops, did I just shoot down my whole argument?
The main point is of course that Jesus was qualified to discuss in public teachings of the sacred things, and did not need confirmation by the self-appointed "authorities".
This is how Mark was written, that Jesus lures them in with one thing, to get their attention, then hits them with something else.
edit on 29-4-2014 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 09:24 AM
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a reply to: sk0rpi0n

He didn demote moses, he promoted the pharisees...as strange as it sounds.
"you say tomato, I say tomahto".
There is an undeniable leveling.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 09:37 AM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: sk0rpi0n

He didn demote moses, he promoted the pharisees...as strange as it sounds.
"you say tomato, I say tomahto".
There is an undeniable leveling.

so explain why jesus asked his followers to do as tthe pharisees said? This means they had to abstain from pork because the pharisees would not allow it....and they would have to stone criminals because the pharisees loved that practice. Or would you have argued with Jesus when he said ''do as they say'''



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 09:43 AM
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a reply to: sk0rpi0n
Jesus said :
The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. So obey everything they teach you, but don’t do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else.
edit on 29-4-2014 by dollukka because: (no reason given)



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 09:52 AM
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originally posted by: dollukka
a reply to: sk0rpi0n
Jesus said :
The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. So obey everything they teach you, but don’t do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else.
he said do as they SAY ....not as they DO. It remains that christians are to DO as those in moses' seat say. Dont do as they do.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 09:53 AM
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originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: WarminIndy

I suppose you are kind of the same way, there are things you don't allow in your home.
I would never be out in my yard mowing the lawn on a Saturday.
Being a Christian rather than an orthodox Jew, I would (and do sometimes) take off on my bicycle from my house for a joy ride on a Saturday, since "the Sabbath was made for man" as Jesus said.



Ok, that is a good point to agree on.

But if your cow fell in a ditch, you would be able to get it out. There are some things that we might just have to take care of on the Sabbath. I know you probably don't have a cow, but some Pharisees had gone to such an extreme position that made people think that everything you did was wrong on the Sabbath.

Some people are such literalists, they probably think Jesus meant this verse was about cows.



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 10:24 AM
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a reply to: sk0rpi0n

so explain why jesus asked his followers to do as tthe pharisees said? This means they had to abstain from pork because the pharisees would not allow it....and they would have to stone criminals because the pharisees loved that practice. Or would you have argued with Jesus when he said ''do as they say'''
Don't you think that he was being sarcastic, considering the next line?

"They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders . . ."



posted on Apr, 29 2014 @ 10:30 AM
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a reply to: dollukka

Jesus said :
The Pharisees and the teachers of the Law are experts in the Law of Moses. So obey everything they teach you, but don’t do as they do. After all, they say one thing and do something else.
There was a cultural tradition that the elders of the town would sit around the public area such as just inside the city gate, and someone with a dispute could go to them and allow them to judge.
I think that Jesus was upholding that tradition, of bringing things to where a settlement could be arrived at.
Seems the Pharisees usurped these positions for their own purposes, so that the people were kind of stuck with them for the time being.





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