Christianity, homosexuality and pig meat.

About eating pork or pig meat, the dietary laws also restricted dairy and meat along with shellfish and other kinds of animals, not just pork. BTW, camels were also restricted but Mohammed missed that one.

camel meat was permitted because the Arabs werent blessed with a fertile land of milk and honey. God was merciful to allow Arabis to eat the one animal that was abundant in their harsh desert region. What excuse do christians have to eat pork when they live in regions where other meats are easily available. t

The reason for this is because pigs, carrion birds and shellfish, along with catfish, was because they eat waste products. The Jewish laws nwere about purity, and eating animals that ate waste was just like taking waste in

so do you abstain from pork? As for camel, the arabs raised and herded them like cattle and gave them decent fodder to eat, not garbage.

originally posted by: halfoldman
a reply to: WarminIndy
Well, I'd be interested on the views of other members on your particular interpretation on divorce and remarriage.
I'd guess the remarried woman can't break her hymen (signifying marriage according to your post) twice or more times.

Widows are widows indeed, as the Bible puts it.

Jesus seems to have only defended the woman caught in adultery, but the point He was making is "where was the man?" The man wasn't brought out to be stoned. That is what Jesus was referring to in "he who is without sin cast the first stone".

But the questions were asked several times about marriage, even the one of the woman who had married brothers (Levirate Law), He said people in heaven would not engage in sexual relationships, they are not given or taken in marriage in heaven.

Widows were granted the right to remarry, look at Ruth and Boaz, because it fell under the Levirate law. The purpose of Levirate was to protect the women and the name of the brother, because the oldest son carried the family responsibility. So in essence, a woman of 30 years of age that was widowed and through Levirate was to wait until the younger brothers were old enough, as in the case of Judah and Thamar, it was to ensure she had status.

Levirate was an ancient law, before the Law of Moses.

But could it be possible that the Law of Moses was given in a response to the decadence and hedonism displayed in those other cultures? There were also many cultures in which they practiced temple prostitution, male and female. At different times the ancient Hebrews followed those other religions, practiced homosexuality and even child sacrifice until the priests issued warnings about it.

Ba'al, Chemosh, Tammuz, and Molech were all religious systems from Canaan to Assyria, and the Jews felt they must be a separate people. Those other religions not only openly practiced homosexuality, but child sacrifice and temple prostitution as well as idolatry.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

About eating pork or pig meat, the dietary laws also restricted dairy and meat along with shellfish and other kinds of animals, not just pork. BTW, camels were also restricted but Mohammed missed that one.

camel meat was permitted because the Arabs werent blessed with a fertile land of milk and honey. God was merciful to allow Arabis to eat the one animal that was abundant in their harsh desert region. What excuse do christians have to eat pork when they live in regions where other meats are easily available. t

The reason for this is because pigs, carrion birds and shellfish, along with catfish, was because they eat waste products. The Jewish laws nwere about purity, and eating animals that ate waste was just like taking waste in

so do you abstain from pork? As for camel, the arabs raised and herded them like cattle and gave them decent fodder to eat, not garbage.

You would think God knew that Arabs lived in the desert when the Torah was written. Sometimes it seems that Allah was taken by surprise quite a few times.

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

About eating pork or pig meat, the dietary laws also restricted dairy and meat along with shellfish and other kinds of animals, not just pork. BTW, camels were also restricted but Mohammed missed that one.

camel meat was permitted because the Arabs werent blessed with a fertile land of milk and honey. God was merciful to allow Arabis to eat the one animal that was abundant in their harsh desert region. What excuse do christians have to eat pork when they live in regions where other meats are easily available. t

The reason for this is because pigs, carrion birds and shellfish, along with catfish, was because they eat waste products. The Jewish laws nwere about purity, and eating animals that ate waste was just like taking waste in

so do you abstain from pork? As for camel, the arabs raised and herded them like cattle and gave them decent fodder to eat, not garbage.

You would think God knew that Arabs lived in the desert when the Torah was written. Sometimes it seems that Allah was taken by surprise quite a few times.

The torah was gven to Israelites not living in the barren deserts of arabia. He allowed them the arabs to eat an animal recognizing that fact. Since you live in the us, what reason do you have to eat the meat of pigs? And if you believe Jesus allowed you to eat pig (I highly doubt it)...you have no business questioning God who allowed arabs to eat camel.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Since you live in the us, what reason do you have to eat the meat of pigs?

- Because it's food.
- Because it tastes great.
- Because it's no longer banned by man made rules from 4500 years ago. Rules that were made because people didn't know how to properly take care of pork so every time someone ate it and got sick, they thought God was punishing them but in reality it was just old fashioned poor understanding of germs and proper cooking.


This isn't rocket science. Even Jesus asked if people were so stupid as not to understand that it was okay to eat pork.

Mark 7:14-23

Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

originally posted by: WarminIndy

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n

About eating pork or pig meat, the dietary laws also restricted dairy and meat along with shellfish and other kinds of animals, not just pork. BTW, camels were also restricted but Mohammed missed that one.

camel meat was permitted because the Arabs werent blessed with a fertile land of milk and honey. God was merciful to allow Arabis to eat the one animal that was abundant in their harsh desert region. What excuse do christians have to eat pork when they live in regions where other meats are easily available. t

The reason for this is because pigs, carrion birds and shellfish, along with catfish, was because they eat waste products. The Jewish laws nwere about purity, and eating animals that ate waste was just like taking waste in

so do you abstain from pork? As for camel, the arabs raised and herded them like cattle and gave them decent fodder to eat, not garbage.

You would think God knew that Arabs lived in the desert when the Torah was written. Sometimes it seems that Allah was taken by surprise quite a few times.

The torah was gven to Israelites not living in the barren deserts of arabia. He allowed them the arabs to eat an animal recognizing that fact. Since you live in the us, what reason do you have to eat the meat of pigs? And if you believe Jesus allowed you to eat pig (I highly doubt it)...you have no business questioning God who allowed arabs to eat camel.

Different gods.

No, I have no right to say what meat Allah says Arabs can eat, but I can say this, if you say Allah and Yaweh are the same, then you are bound to the same dietary restrictions as the Jews.

But many Jewish people do eat pork and shellfish, because they realize dietary laws are regulated solely by rabbinical counsel. As long as they want to keep kosher they may, no one is killing them over it. But if you take the extreme position that Allah and Yaweh are the same, then you are obligated to keep kosher. Do you keep kosher? Do you keep Passover?

I guess then that you have a different god. The rabbinical counsels state that non-Jews are not required to keep kosher, but that we are permitted to keep kosher if we wish. We also keep Passover through Communion.

If not all Jews keep kosher, then why ask Christians why we do not, if we are permitted not to? Even the highest rabbinical counsels would never say Christians should keep kosher. They might like it if we did, but it is not our mitzvah. Even Shaul says so in Romans 11.

Shaul, the most kosher, never demanded Christians keep kosher, because it is not the most weightiest matter of the law. Just don't eat meat offered to idols and you are good to go. That's all. If a hamburger is offered to Buddha, then we are not permitted to eat that hamburger, we can, however, eat a different hamburger.

a reply to: WarminIndy

dietary laws are regulated solely by rabbinical counsel. As long as they want to keep kosher they may, no one is killing them over it.

The local rabbi defriended me after watching me buy a chicken and Swiss sandwich at the deli.

a reply to: sk0rpi0n

Quite simply Skorp, when the bible and Leviticus were written, hygiene was a major concern. God banned pork, and shellfish because without refrigeration they are prone to breeding all sorts of nasty bacteria that can make a person very ill. In other climates like say northern Europe, where the bible was not written, these issues aren't a problem really.

So all in all, its a law that was written for us to keep us from making ourselves ill. Interpret it however you will, but Acts 10 - 14 is the reason christendom sees justification in eating pork

11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”

I'm not a big eater of pork myself, and wouldn't really miss it or shell fish, but I feel no guilt when tucking into a good bacon and egg sandwich either.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: WarminIndy

dietary laws are regulated solely by rabbinical counsel. As long as they want to keep kosher they may, no one is killing them over it.

The local rabbi defriended me after watching me buy a chicken and Swiss sandwich at the deli.

But he didn't kill you, did he?

How orthodox was he?

a reply to: WarminIndy

How orthodox was he?

No, he didn't kill me, he just didn't talk to me any more after I was obviously about to eat meat and dairy products at the same time, which is a Talmudic thing and not biblical because the Bible just says not to boil a calf in its own mother's milk.
He is not orthodox. He's actually Reformed.
I don't even know if there are any orthodox synagogues near where I live.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: WarminIndy

How orthodox was he?

No, he didn't kill me, he just didn't talk to me any more after I was obviously about to eat meat and dairy products at the same time, which is a Talmudic thing and not biblical because the Bible just says not to boil a calf in its own mother's milk.
He is not orthodox. He's actually Reformed.
I don't even know if there are any orthodox synagogues near where I live.

Well jmdewey, we have to remember what Paul said in Romans 14, if we know it offends then we shouldn't eat things that offends.

Romans 14: 19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.

20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.

21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.

22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.

23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

While you might think he is not your brother, he still is someone who could be offended and as you are the example of Christ to him, don't do what offends. Keep the peace.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Well jmdewey, we have to remember what Paul said in Romans 14, if we know it offends then we shouldn't eat things that offends.

He was standing there in the shop when I just happened to pop in to grab a sandwich.
I took it to go and didn't eat it there, and I made an effort to not be too noticeable about my particular selection,
They were pre-made ones that you could take out of the cooler section.
He looked, anyway, I suppose just naturally curious, then made a face when he realized what it was.
It wasn't like I was serving him up diner.

While you might think he is not your brother, he still is someone who could be offended and as you are the example of Christ to him, don't do what offends. Keep the peace.

I think you are just being weird.
He may have liked me if he thought I was going to convert to Judaism.
If he had, then that was removed by my obviously not buying into Talmudic nonsense.

My original point of the post was to show that you don't have to eat pork in order to annoy some Jews.
You could be thinking you were fine eating a turkey sandwich but be sadly mistaken.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: WarminIndy

Well jmdewey, we have to remember what Paul said in Romans 14, if we know it offends then we shouldn't eat things that offends.

He was standing there in the shop when I just happened to pop in to grab a sandwich.

I think you are just being weird.


Why am I being weird?

Aren't we supposed to be the example of Christ to the world? Maybe it wasn't about eating the sandwich, maybe he just made that face because he didn't like it. If he didn't tell you why, then why assume it was over a sandwich you ate outside?

My friend eats bacon and cheese on sandwiches when out, but she is Conservative. She has even bought non-kosher cheeseburgers for me.

Sounds like the guy you knew was just being a jerk.

a reply to: WarminIndy

Why am I being weird?

I suppose if you heard the call from a nearby minaret, you would kneel towards Mecca.

If he didn't tell you why, then why assume it was over a sandwich you ate outside?

I don't think that it was a coincidence that after that he avoided me and never talked to me.
And I ate it in my car after I drove off.
It was just that it would have been obvious that I was buying it for myself and couldn't care less about some self-imposed taboo.

Sounds like the guy you knew was just being a jerk.

He was raised up in a close and very orthodox community and was strictly adhering to his rabbinical code (him being a rabbi, as I mentioned earlier, and not "some guy"). He was more traditional than probably the entire congregation put together.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: WarminIndy

I suppose if you heard the call from a nearby minaret, you would kneel towards Mecca.

You know better than that. Just ask Sk0rpi0n if that sounds like something I would do.

He was raised up in a close and very orthodox community and was strictly adhering to his rabbinical code (him being a rabbi, as I mentioned earlier, and not "some guy"). He was more traditional than probably the entire congregation put together.

OK, so then why the problem? If you know that, then maybe he just has some personal issues. It has to be over something more than just a sandwich. You seem really upset over it, perhaps you should pray about it and get some peace about it.

a reply to: WarminIndy

You seem really upset over it, perhaps you should pray about it and get some peace about it.

I'm not upset.
A rabbi has a lot of commitments to his congregation and doesn't have time for someone sitting on the periphery.
I'm just saying that to this particular person, eating meat and dairy separately was a big deal.
And it is to a lot of Jews, ones who think traditions need to be safeguarded.
And he had said as much publicly.
One example would be that there was an important annual fair in this town that the temple had always had a booth at.
When he was the rabbi, he made them close it on the Sabbath, which was when they normally had the most traffic for the event.

And about the peace, I think that I am more disturbed by the fact that the next rabbi at this temple committed suicide.
That was really bad.
And it didn't have anything to do with me because I had stopped attending before any of that happened.
I think I had talked to him briefly two times.
He thought that the elders there were mean.
There were a lot of older members there who had never gotten over all that holocaust business.
It was a little weird to me maybe because I wasn't used to it, but they could just come out of the blue about how they were angry that all their relatives disappeared.

originally posted by: jmdewey60
a reply to: WarminIndy

You seem really upset over it, perhaps you should pray about it and get some peace about it.

I'm not upset.
A rabbi has a lot of commitments to his congregation and doesn't have time for someone sitting on the periphery.
I'm just saying that to this particular person, eating meat and dairy separately was a big deal.
And it is to a lot of Jews, ones who think traditions need to be safeguarded.
And he had said as much publicly.
One example would be that there was an important annual fair in this town that the temple had always had a booth at.
When he was the rabbi, he made them close it on the Sabbath, which was when they normally had the most traffic for the event.

Ok, this guy keeps kosher. Which is what I mentioned earlier is that some Jews are not keeping kosher. Some Jews don't follow Talmud or rabbinical counsels. My friend keeps kosher at home and when we are out I always try not to offend her but generally she tells me beforehand that it is ok if I don't keep kosher outside her house.

I suppose you are kind of the same way, there are things you don't allow in your home.

Would I bow down to prayer call from a minaret? No. I will not bow down to another god. But would I eat pork in front of a Muslim? No, that I would not do. They didn't offer it to an idol anyway.

I would draw the line at camel pee or if a Hindu offered me cow pee. Some things I just can't do.

WarminIndy.....Different gods.

I've seen Jews acnowledge that Allah is the God of the bible but never a single one admit the same about Jesus or the trinity. So its christians who are the odd ones out.

, if you say Allah and Yaweh are the same, then you are bound to the same dietary restrictions as the Jews.

By the same logic, if Christians serve YHWH, you would need to live as the jews do. Instead you believe God conveniently tweaked the laws for christians, by doing away entirely with the law. (though Jesus clearly said the law was to remain.) But God did tweak the previous food laws for the Arabs... By lifting some bans (camel), introducing new bans (alcohol) and retaining other bans (pork).

The rabbinical counsels state that non-Jews are not required to keep kosher,.......then why ask Christians why we do not, if we are permitted not to?

Because Christians use levitical law to make rulings on certain matters such as homosexuality, fornication etc....while maintaining at the same time that levitical law has been done away with...thus justifying pork consumption.

originally posted by: sk0rpi0n
Because Christians use levitical law to make rulings on certain matters such as homosexuality, fornication etc....while maintaining at the same time that levitical law has been done away with...thus justifying pork consumption.

Since you must have missed it ... I'll repost the quote for you. Here is where Jesus 'did away with' the dietary restrictions PORTION of the 'levitical law' ..... and here is where Jesus said that anyone who doesn't understand this to be dull minded. It is very clear why fundamentalist Christians are not maintaining the beliefs that eating certain foods will send you to hell.

Mark 7:14-23

Again Jesus called the crowd to him and said, “Listen to me, everyone, and understand this. Nothing outside a person can defile them by going into them. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.”

After he had left the crowd and entered the house, his disciples asked him about this parable. “Are you so dull?” he asked. “Don’t you see that nothing that enters a person from the outside can defile them? For it doesn’t go into their heart but into their stomach, and then out of the body.” (In saying this, Jesus declared all foods clean.)

He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. All these evils come from inside and defile a person.”

Since you must have missed it ... I'll repost the quote for you. Here is where Jesus 'did away with' the dietary restrictions PORTION of the 'levitical law' ..... and here is where Jesus said that anyone who doesn't understand this to be dull minded. It is very clear why fundamentalist Christians are not maintaining the beliefs that eating certain foods will send you to hell.

Mark 7:14-23

when read holistically Mark 7 was about pharisees finding fault with eating bread with unwashed hands and jesus shutting them up by pointing out their habit of modifying the law to make room for their own practices . But christias quote mark 7 as if Jesus and his disciples sat around munching bacon when the speech was made as if it 'proves' that Jesus permitted pork.