What if Humphrey beats Nixon in '68?

What if Humphrey beats Nixon in '68? Does it change Apollo?

50% credit and 50% blame goes to Rob48 for conceiving the scenario.

Here was my answer to Rob:

I got this great question from Rob48 in a another thread. It involves a simple what if question. How would Humphrey's win in 1968 affect the Nixon Apollo narratives. I have to admit that I am not a big Humphrey expert.

originally posted by: Rob48
Which brings me to a question that intrigues me. Let's say, for the sake of debate, that Nixon had lost the 1968 election. If Hubert Humphrey was president in 1969, then how would Apollo have panned out, in your view? Let's not forget, the programme was already in full swing when Nixon was elected. So if Nixon's presidency was so key to the "Apollo hoax", what would they have done if he had lost?

Humphrey had Hughes money in his pocket for the 1968 campaign, just as Nixon did. Hughes was interested in funding both sides of the election so that no matter who won on November 5, Hughes will have favors to call on the next president.

In Nixon's case, we now know that those favors to Hughes included approval of illegal corporate mergers, e.g. Hughes Airwest; special access to Nixon White House via Maheu and Rebozo; these favors extend way back to the 1950's, e.g., the Hughes $205,000 loan to Nixon brother Donald, for the Nixonburger restaurants. We also know how Nixon set up his cabinet and appointees to facilitate the propaganda of "Apollo", most blatantly, selecting network TV exec Frank Shakespeare to head the USIA... it would be Shakespeare's job to plan the world-wide tours for astronauts ... celebrating the American conquest of the moon, giving away moon rocks to third world puppet dictators, and showing Apollo films en masse to poorly educated people in every poor country across the planet. That's good coverage! Humphrey might choose someone else or he might choose Frank Shakespeare. I don't know. We are dealing with "what-if's".

If Humphrey wins, he's still got debts and favors to pay back to Hughes. Bob Maheu, Hughes #2 man in Nevada, will still be in Las Vegas negotiating between Hughes and Humphrey's White House, "Iron Bob Maheu" was his nickname (IBM for short) and he's a tough negotiator, ex-CIA, ex-FBI, involved in the poison pill plot to kill Castro and "IBM" doesn't take no for an answer.

If Humphrey wins he is going to select a democratic cast of characters for his cabinet & appointees, it means that the entire decade of the 1960's would have been democratic presidencies. Humphrey would have been under extreme scrutiny, more so than Nixon, since Humphrey, if he had won 1968, would be seen as a continuation of the Johnson administration and that would likely cause Humphrey's administration to be saddled with a lot of very heavy baggage, ie, body bags.

IF Humphrey wins in 1968, the Apollo timelines would be different, he might have selected different astronauts for the missions. Humphrey I view as being more timid, less adventurous, than Nixon and Humphrey might have decided after the Apollo 13 accident that NASA would stop the project right there April 1970.

In my view, Humphrey's first term would be 1) still under Howard Hughes scrutiny and influence 2) way too over burdened with the mistakes of the Johnson administration (not the glories!) with the perfect example being Gulf of Tonkin leading to the mock war in S.E. Asia 3) Humphrey would know (via Johnson) that Nixon would continue to remain a threat behind the scenes even if Nixon lost 1968.

Nixon losing in 1968 I think that he would still remain "on the scene" so to speak, paying back his debts to Howard Hughes, one way or another. Humphrey's first term ends up a failure, with Nixon's help, so then it's looking like Nixon vs Kennedy in 1972? We know that's never gonna happen! One of them would end up assassinated for sure!

In my view, that's why Nixon tried to take out Teddy so early. July 1969. The 18th of July 1969 to be exact. The assassination attempt at Chappaquiddick just happens to occur on the same weekend that Neil and Buzz are landing on the moon. That's the weekend some American gangsters were settling some old scores. Teddy got the message. Obviously there many different views on this subject and this is only my view.

Let's not forget, the programme was already in full swing when Nixon was elected.

Full swing? not quite. Apollo did not get out of low earth orbit until 7 weeks after the 1968 election was decided. James Webb, NASA administrator is also quitting his long term post during this time bringing in the GE man Thomas O. Paine.

The timing of Apollo 8 TV Genesis bible reading broadcast to America on Christmas eve, it was not insignificant event, because it occurs coincidentally with the Howard Hughes corporate birthday, December 24th. No matter who wins 1968 the Apollo 8 TV capsule will orbit the moon around about Howard Hughes birthday, which it did... according to NASA sources.

a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

Any Hubert Humphrey experts out there who would like to take a shot at this? I think it's worthy of some examination. And this is the Skunkworks.

a reply to: SayonaraJupiter
nothing significant would be any different

The Potus would follow the orders given. the coup in 1963 changed everything in the US.

originally posted by: HanzHenry
a reply to: SayonaraJupiter
nothing significant would be any different

The Potus would follow the orders given. the coup in 1963 changed everything in the US.

Who do you think is giving those orders to the Potus? Who is pulling the strings on JF Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Humphrey, RF Kennedy and Spiro Agnew? Are the orders coming from Las Vegas from 1966-1970? Please speculate, this is the skunkworks.

originally posted by: SayonaraJupiter

originally posted by: HanzHenry
a reply to: SayonaraJupiter
nothing significant would be any different

The Potus would follow the orders given. the coup in 1963 changed everything in the US.

Who do you think is giving those orders to the Potus? Who is pulling the strings on JF Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Humphrey, RF Kennedy and Spiro Agnew? Are the orders coming from Las Vegas from 1966-1970? Please speculate, this is the skunkworks.

The Hinckley clan, the Bush clan, the Walker clan, Dulles, etc.. the CIA basically and their old money robber baron trust fund offspring.
And all of them are giving marching orders by the ELites in Europe. That is where it rests. The whole Rothschild crew are the bankers, under employ. Remember the golden rule, whom has the gold is the ruler.

The monarchies of Europe/UK/Scandinavia (the crown) never lost their wealth, they own untold secret and hidden wealth. Kings had numerous children with multiple women to ensure their thrones. All those kids, even the illegitimate ones are "better" than the rest of us. This forms the outer circle of the ELite royals.

Big, Huge scam that the sheeple fall for = the "figure head" scam. gtfo, lol.. the crown still is the power behind it all.
As the old custom. "those within earshot of the queen are under her rule". ever wonder why the US fawns over the royal family in England? I mean the UK = United KINGDOM. hmm Kingdom huh? is the first part of that? oh yeah ----> KING!

a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

Oh dear. If your theory has the same results even if the opposite is postulated, you might need to re-examine your theory.

Good call. I too, have often wished that Humphrey Bogart had entered politics and defeated Nixon in the presidential race. I mean, why not?? Reagan did it, and he wasn't HALF the actor Humphrey was! The only reason I cannot fully be on board with your hypothesis is that I cannot see this happening without having to sacrifice The Godfather films, which are the only way I've been able to get people interested in The Godfather BOOKS, and that, I cannot tolerate. Plus, without the whole godfather phenomenon, I have a hard time believing that Hugh Grant would have been inspired to open up his heart and give us the gift of his performance in Mickey Blue Eyes... No, this doesn't add up at all. But still, nice try. It's a dream I've often contemplated myself, but from someone who's spent over half his life chasing this fantasy, let me tell you: Just no. It's a waste of time, son. I've already worked out all the variables, the logistics, and I'm tellin you Frankie it's just not doable! Look, if you wanna waste your time, go on ahead. But I want nothing to with it aright pal?

a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

"Dump the hump", the chant rang out over the lobby of the Conrad Hilton hotel in Chicago, greeting Humphrey after he had won the nomination. Then he was dumped, by the voters.

If he had won would China and America have become "friends" as quickly? Jimmy Carter would still be a peanut farmer, as others would have been nommed in '76 (Ed Muskie?). The space program would have certainly gone ahead, as Apollo was on schedule for the moon swing-around (HHH wouldn't have been sworn in until January of 1969, and everything in the Apollo program to the moon was set to go by that point, thanks to Kennedy and Johnson - so why didn't Nixon invite Johnson to be on the phone call to the moon along with him? That was unfair and grandstanding for something he didn't do).

These "what ifs" of history are fun to contemplate. At least we wouldn't have Nixon to kick around anymore.

EDIT: And he would have won if his voice was an octave or two lower, or if he looked a little tougher. Just wasn't in the cards for someone who looked and sounded like he did. Nixon was very lucky to have him as an opponent due to these intangible/tangibles.

Its great to hypothesize, but its all wishful thinking to no avail. What if Kennedy or Lincoln wasn't assassinated? 9-11 never happened? We lost WW2? You could discuss the endless possibilities all day and all night and come up with different scenarios for each...but they hold no weight in the reality we live with each day.

It will only forever remain speculation, hypothesized outcomes, supposition and assumption. And all for outcomes that will never happen...because they did not.

Its great to wonder all the "what-ifs", but that's all it'll ever be. Its fun, but couldn't time be better spent on your tomorrow's coming at us full speed, then to dwell on the past "if-it-shoulda-coulda-woulda's?"

a reply to: 3n19m470

Good call. I too, have often wished that Humphrey Bogart had entered politics and defeated Nixon in the presidential race. I mean, why not?? Reagan did it, and he wasn't HALF the actor Humphrey was! The only reason I cannot fully be on board with your hypothesis is that I cannot see this happening without having to sacrifice The Godfather films, which are the only way I've been able to get people interested in The Godfather BOOKS, - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I wanna know who Humphrey Bogart chooses for his VP in 1968 ! A good choice might be Ron Reagan, who was, up and coming in CA politics at the time.

What's so special about Mario Puzo's Godfather BOOKS? I wanna know if Humphrey paid him $1 million to write that.

Hey, wait a minute, you had me going until I realized Bogart died in 1957

originally posted by: DJW001
a reply to: SayonaraJupiter

Oh dear. If your theory has the same results even if the opposite is postulated, you might need to re-examine your theory.

In 1968... the US is deciding between these two losers.
Humphrey had lost in '52, '60. No luck, but a happy warrior he was.
Nixon had lost in '60 and '62, and he's a poor loser.

If Humphrey had squeeked out that victory you can be sure Nixon would be lurking in the shadows ready to put a wrench in the works of Humphrey's new administration.

Apollo 8, the Christmas simulation, would still go forward with the momentum carried from the Johnson administration.
Apollo 9, never left low earth orbit.
Apollo 10, the 'dress rehearsal' simulation, during May 18-26 1969. Hubert's birthday is on May 11, so this mission is a belated birthday present for him.

(A word about May of 1969. It was the month that US ground forces in SE Asia peaked at around 550,000.)

Apollos 11, 12 go as planned, the missions are TV simulations; the propaganda has succeeded; USA beats CCCP.

Apollo 13, has the accident, April 1970, this allows Humphrey to contain the Moon Hoax to 5 missions. All what remains of the Saturn/Apollo hardware would be used in low earth orbit assignments.

I just don't know enough about Humphrey's outlook on Viet Nam... would he have escalated Viet Nam by April 1970 or would he be de-escalating? Humphrey's baggage from the Johnson administration would be too much, Nixon working to screw things up behind the scenes, so I don't think Humphrey is going to get the second term.

a reply to: Aleister

as Apollo was on schedule for the moon swing-around (HHH wouldn't have been sworn in until January of 1969, and everything in the Apollo program to the moon was set to go by that point, thanks to Kennedy and Johnson - so why didn't Nixon invite Johnson to be on the phone call to the moon along with him? That was unfair and grandstanding for something he didn't do). - See more at: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nixon exploited every last drop of Apollo. He could have squeezed even more Apollo if he hadn't cancelled A18, A19 and A20.
HHH would not be so bold as Nixon, HHH would probably postpone all Apollo moon missions after the A13 accident.
Johnson, the guy who sold us the Gulf of Tonkin, went into seclusion after he left the White House, his public appearances were seldom between 1969-1972, with the weight of 50,000 dead Americans on his heart, he avoided publicity like the plague.

HHH might have invited Johnson to speak to the astronauts on live TV... but with Johnson in seclusion... it might have been a bad idea to transmit a TV picture of Johnson+astronauts to a world-wide TV audience. People would get confused.

Nixon had no problem exploiting that phone call... he made some other phone calls that weekend, too... that's the weekend he tried to wipe out Teddy.